40K Charted: The Chaos Gods Explored – Tzeentch
November 16, 2015 by warzan
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Tzeentch embodies the aspect of change. Whilst Law was about imposing structure and order, Tzeentch breaks these things down. He was initially introduced as opposed to Nurgle, who represented entropy, decay and things coming to an end. Tzeentch embodies the aspects of Chaos that allows magic to thrive because he breaks down the rules of order, and his followers tend to be the most powerful magic users amongst the forces of Chaos.
Tzeentch’s hey day was when GW were actively supporting WFRP. He was well suited to the role of the internal threat which schemed and threatened to bring down the Empire from the inside. He’s never sat as comfortably in WFB or 40K as Khorne or Nurgle as he does not overtly and actively seek to end life as those two gods do.
Apart from the contrast of red and brass that I love about Khorne I think Tzeentch gives you some fascinating options for painting.
I love the idea of metals that are then washed with blues, purples and more to give it a magical and ever-changing feel.
Thousands sons is my 40K army from 20 years now.
I love them: good fluff and good pait schema.
Just a comment : tne oppposite of Tzeentch is not Khorne but Nurgle.
Tzeentch is change and creation. Nurgle is decay and death.
Enjoy the path of change.
I believe that the combinations just spoil the game for me.. just my opinion. If you did play against that Warren then you would spend all of your gaming time looking u p rules, working out how they work together, etc. just makes the game so complex, even for fluff fighters like yourself 😉
these videos have fast become my favourite on the site (even more than the weekenders) and I dont even play 40k. enjoyable and full of interesting backstory, keep up the great work
I am with you on this one . weekender is my top one but this is just after.
Something that was glossed over at the beginning – the emotion that powers Tzeentch is Hope. He’s not just about manipulating plans, he doesn’t that partly because scheming is in his nature but also partly because he feeds off of hope and encouraging people to scheme and drive themselves towards lofty goals and obtaining a better life for themselves is how he maximises that. He’s also about change to such an extent that most fans hold the opinion that he can never allow any one side to ultimately win because that would eventually lead to stagnation which as the antithesis of change would weaken him or would lead to everything being destroyed in which case change would cease completely, resulting in doom for him. To avoid this he’ll even go so far as screwing over himself and the other gods just to keep things in a place where change can continue.
Also, as a schemer, he has plans within plans and multiple contingencies; in fact often stopping one of his plans will make a dozen other ones succeed.
Another hallmark of his that was glossed over at the beginning is that one of his titles is The Great Mutator, and as such he is the god most prone to giving out mutations to his followers and if you look at older minis, usually the Tzeentch ones will be the most mutated and/or have the most far out mutations.
Also, while Khorne hates him for his magic use, Tzeentch’s arch rival is actually Nurgle. Tzeentch and Nurgle are antithesis of each other – Tzeentch embodies hope and change, Nurgle despair and stagnation.
On his daemons – I think what got you confused with regards to the names @warzan is that in previous editions there were two types of Horrors – Pink Horrors and Blue Horrors. Pink Horrors were pretty much as shown in the pic (albeit with a slightly different style due to the era they were sculpted in) who were capricious and happy-go-lucky. Blue Horrors were half the size and morose; but what made them stand out is that whenever you killed a Pink Horror, instead of being banished back into the Warp/Realm of Chaos, it would split into two Blue Horrors who would keep on fighting.
As for the Lords of Change being closest to Tzeentch, if you meant visually, then the answer is not exactly. Tzeentch is the god with the least fixed form and most prone to changing it on a whim or to suit the situation and actually most descriptions have him looking like a giant Horror.
One thing that was also glossed over daemonwise is that the daemonic mount some of his followers ride is called a Disc of Tzeentch and is created using a Screamer.
On the Thousand Sons, AJ’s statement that they didn’t look like that isn’t entirely true. He’s right that the colour scheme was different (red, white and gold instead of blue and gold), but he neglected to mention that they still had the Ancient Egyptian aesthetics, albeit to a lesser degree, as you can see from the cover of the A Thousand Sons book.
Another thing glossed over was that the Fleshchange was halted by Magnus when he bartered for knowledge from Tzeentch (although he didn’t know it was Tzeentch at the time or how powerful Tzeentch truly was).
On Magnus contacting the Emperor to warn him about Horus, AJ hasn’t quite got his facts straight. What happened was that the Emperor had withdrawn into his secret lab and was trying to build a Webway Portal. Magnus’s spell accidentally shattered the wards on the gateway which allowed the Daemons to enter the Eldar Webway and come through the Portal.
Also, the Emperor didn’t intend Russ and the Wolves to destroy the Sons; he wanted Magnus brought back to Terra for punishment. Horus (who everyone thought was still loyal at this point) contacted Russ and told him that the order had been changed to kill.
On Ahriman – there’s no ‘probably’ about it; he was the First Captain and one of Magnus’s closest advisors. Not only that but he was the head of the Corvidae, one of the five Cults of the Thousand Sons. The Cults were pretty much like the Colledges of Magic in Fantasy, so essentially that means he was the most powerful practitioner of that psychic discipline save for Magnus and the Emperor themselves. And that was before the Sons fell to Chaos.
On the Rubric of Ahriman – actually it wasn’t just the ones who didn’t have powers that got dusted; it also dusted those with latent/weak powers. It was only the ones who were already strong/powerful that got the power boost.
Little nitpick – technically AJ is right in that FW haven’t produced a Magnus mini yet, but the actual answer to @warzan ‘s question is yes. Magnus did have a mini back in the day, but it was for Epic rather than 40k (and it was gods awful – it looked like a winged monkey with a big busy pirate beard and for some reason the GW painters decided to paint him blue skin and orange hair/beard).
On other Thousand Sons characters – it’s unlikely we’ll get anything else on Ahriman’s brother considering he’s dead. The Ahriman brothers both succumbed to the Fleshchange. Magnus managed to reverse it in time to save Ahzek, but not in time to save Ohzmund.
On the minis – actually that isn’t an empty suit, that’s one of the Aspiring Sorcerers. The conversion bits you see around it are used to make regular Chaos Space Marine minis into Rubricae who are the empty suits (well, suits filled with dust and bound to the spirit of the marine who wore it at the time the Rubric was cast and animated by it).
On the Thousand Sons hate Ahriman – not quite; there was a split when Magnus exiled Ahriman. Some stayed on the Planet of Sorcerers with Magnus, but some left with Ahriman, so not all of them hate him.
Libraries Conclave sounds like fun, when I get back into 40k I’ll have to see about adding one to my Thousand Sons army 🙂
Interesting read, dude. Looks like you know your stuff! I thought I knew quite a bit but most of my “chaos knowledge” comes from WFRP 2nd edition and after so many years, I tend to mix things up (as you must have noticed if you had a look at my comments on the Nurgle video).
😉
Nice one, that was a bunch of stuff I wanted AJ to mention and you saved me the time to add them here lol! 🙂
Cool read. This is what amazes me about 40k fluff, the detail you can delve into is unbelievable. Thanks for the info. 🙂
I’s lucky Ohzmund didn’t get saved then, because instead of having the Sorceror Ahriman we could now have the Wizard of Ohz…
Great post, saved me writing one to make the same corrections. I was under the impression though that when Magnus tried to make contact with the Emperor he astrally projected himself through the Webway to Terra and when he got there found the portal blocked so he burst through it. Shattering the protective wards the Emperor had put in place to protect the scientists researching the portal and flooding the research lab with Demons with his projected astral form stood in the middle of the Chaos.
Also the description of the Webway was a bit off. It isn’t an alternative to the Warp it is more a maze of interconnected tunnels and pockets of stabilised reality that are honeycombed throughout the warp. The Eldar make use of them (though they didn’t build them originally) to travel and (in the case of the Dark Eldar) live. Commorragh is described as the dark city but actually its a huge interconnected collection of these pockets of stabilised reality, some of which are the size of small planets. Which is why so many Eldar and other creatures can live there. The city could be the equivalent in size to many (perhaps hundreds) of worlds.
The Webway is a mess though. The fall of the Eldar opened a huge chunk of it directly to the Warp (in the Eye of Terror) and the ensuing warp storms ripped holes through big chunks of the rest of it. As a result it is no longer a particularly safe place to be and there are large sections of it that you would just avoid at all costs. Which makes looking for the Black Library incredibly dangerous.
Never knew that the “troopers” of the Thousand Sons are in fact animated suits of armour. Creepy. I like it!
Still not my favourite chaos God though…
So after what has been said,
The Age of Sigmar is Tzeentch. Armoured shells of hero’s past, (you said turned to dust)
who would of thought of that. Sigmarines.
Saved me the effort of posting same thing 🙂
I always felt that Tzeentch were GW’s version of the Dark Crystal’s Skeksis, but then I am old and refer everything to 80’s movies!
I think there was there a Space Hulk mission called ‘Contract Revoked’ were a Nurgle/Tzeentch (?) renegade (?) had to steel stuff from an Inquisition Space Station leading a gang of Chaos Space Marines…
the Egyptian themed bits from Wargames Exclusive are excellent – i got the gw bits – but they have tiny heads and i had to pin their arms 🙁
A Thousand Sons and Prospero Burns were the first Horus Heresy books I had read, as I’m a big fan of the Space Wolves. I liked how they prefer their own Fenrisian name Vlka Fenryka, or The Rout to “Space Wolves”, especially as I’d always felt that was a weak name, even when I was 11 years old. They were a great introduction to the whole writing style of the series, although I must admit that A Thousand Sons took quite a while to get from the human characters observing the ‘Sons to the marines themselves; well it felt like quite a while. I was looking to read about them, not the puny humans lol, but they were worth reading about, and seeing things from their perspective makes the “genhanced” legiones astartes even more immense, intimidating and lethal.
Both books were fantastic – the reveal of the Emperor’s intentions and purpose for Magnus and how much he had messed things up in contacting him is such a tragedy; you really see how Magnus screwed things up by not listening to his father. When you read it you will shout “Oh no, Magnus you idiot!” lol.
@warzan If you end up choosing Tzeentch, you should definitely read A Thousand Sons and then Prospero Burns because they’re great and for fluff ideas too.
Both books “A Thousand Sons” and “Propero Burns” are definitely worth to read to get more insight into the Thousand Sons history and background. My favorite however is “The Talon of Horus” by Aaron Dembski Bowden. Read the book and also bought the Audiobook. Great story!
The first chaos codex in third edition had a rule for the thousands sons called “All is Dust”. That particular rule meant that only shooting attacks of strength 5 and above could damage them. This was awesome as it made the majority of a space marine armies shooting attacks useless! This rule was changed in the following codex as it was seriously beardy!
My brother has always been a fan of Thousand Sons (them and Blood Angels tbh) and I can definitely second the idea that Thousand Sons are great marine killers – however, for them to be viable you need to consider transport and the heavy weapon side of things. My brother whacks all his infantry into transports like rhino’s or razorbacks (they rarely last long) but the point is to get them up and into short/medium range where he can shoot up my Dark Angels. Slow and purposeful can be a major handy cap, roll em up the table into a nice commanding position, if the transports die, well, it doesn’t really matter too much if it’s just a couple of bog standard rhino’s. You’re troops are in place and can get to work.
Tzeentch is my homeboy
yeah, poor old Magnus just seems a bit hapless in the Horus Heresy…
Well their you go then, the road to hell is paved by tzeentch then?
a nice informative video guys roll on next week.
I’m sure many of gamers have done this in the past but I use the Grey Knight Codex when playing a Thousand Sons army.
What a great idea!
that would be excellent for Thousand Sons terminators…
well back in the days of old “tell a story and swing the lamp shade” OMG how many years have i been playing this game…
the first plastic marine came out like these, so these are looking good.again,
real put together what you want them to look like marines, with the same armour too :-))
ok back then they were a bit smaller, but not that much.
“And i have still got one or two” about 25 years on. but that’s another story…
love the show, :-))
Do not resist the Lords of Change!
https://soundcloud.com/centurymedia/3-inches-of-blood-lords-of
Has your mind been ‘changed’ @warzan ? 🙂
And on a sidenote; do you really want to make an episode about the Black Library? It will involve lots of prancing Eldar in brightly coloured tights. 😉
C’mon, that’s awesome lol
@aj188 I hope that is the right name… I think it might be a great idea if you gave lists for these ideas you are talking about!
I just did up a topic based off your video here.
http://www.beastsofwar.com/groups/warhammer-40000/forum/topic/fluff-over-stuff-one-codex/
Intriguing video. I did not know the part about Ahriman well. Now I know. Thanks @aj86