Weekender XLBS: Skulls Galore In Age Of Sigmar & Homebrew World Of Tanks Rules
August 30, 2015 by lloyd
For some website features, you will need a FREE account and for some others, you will need to join the Cult of Games.
Or if you have already joined the Cult of Games Log in now
What difference will having a FREE account make?
Setting up a Free account with OnTableTop unlocks a load of additional features and content (see below). You can then get involved with our Tabletop Gaming community, we are very helpful and keen to hear what you have to say. So Join Us Now!
Free Account Includes
- Creating your own project blogs.
- Rating and reviewing games using our innovative system.
- Commenting and ability to upvote.
- Posting in the forums.
- Unlocking of Achivments and collectin hobby xp
- Ability to add places like clubs and stores to our gaming database.
- Follow games, recommend games, use wishlist and mark what games you own.
- You will be able to add friends to your account.
What's the Cult of Games?
Once you have made a free account you can support the community by joing the Cult of Games. Joining the Cult allows you to use even more parts of the site and access to extra content. Check out some of the extra features below.
Cult of Games Membership Includes
- Reduced ads, for a better browsing experience (feature can be turned on or off in your profile).
- Access to The Cult of Games XLBS Sunday Show.
- Extra hobby videos about painting, terrain building etc.
- Exclusive interviews with the best game designers etc.
- Behind the scenes studio VLogs.
- Access to our live stream archives.
- Early access to our event tickets.
- Access to the CoG Greenroom.
- Access to the CoG Chamber of Commerce.
- Access the CoG Bazarr Trading Forum.
- Create and Edit Records for Games, Companies and Professionals.
Supported by (Turn Off)
Supported by (Turn Off)
Supported by (Turn Off)
![Warcradle Studios Reveal TINY New 10mm Festive Marker! [Updated]](https://images.beastsofwar.com/2025/11/christmas-kyle-main-600-338.jpg)
Happy Sunday!
Happy Sunday!
Happy Sunday ! good morning folks.
Full hard-on?
@lloyd Regarding cobbles: get a lolly stick and put some nails through it, then you can emboss multiple lines in the cardboard at once.
That new AOS scenery is pretty awful and expensive in my opinion. I know you said it has a very 40k feel but that really means it fits in with the Chaos and Sigmarite models as it’s also been said they have a 40k feel about them too. With sets like this out there (see the link) and the sort of money available you could put together some great castle themed sets.
http://www.gamewire.belloflostsouls.net/tabletop-workshop-large-castle-set-now-available-2/
I personally like the new GW skull castle but I agree with everything else you say. That Tabletop Workshop castle is great too. I wonder if part of GW’s thinking is that it’s another example of IP protection. They have competitors producing ‘castle-looking’ castles that are suitable for use in medieval fantasy settings. But no one else is producing anything like this (so far as i’m aware), so they (think they) can charge whatever they like.
@lloyd have you looked at Flames of Tanks, it’s very close to a game you are talking about.
Try the link and download the rules http://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=4192
As for scale I like 20mm as its a good mix of size and detail. Good luck which ever way you decide to go.
Not a WHFB player, so AoS not on radar. But it does look very 40k and know Blood Angel players are using parts to do true scale marines.
The scenery kits for AoS are 40k, but wouldn’t be playing that price for them. I don’t think AoS is going to survive and fingers crossed it doesn’t drag 40k down with it.
We do need roads and access to A3 or A4 printer not an issue.
Great show guys.
Happy Sunday everybody…..
@lloyd really like the ‘pigment’ weathering on your SSU it’s a simple and effective technique and very realistic having spent many a hot summer in Germany that’s how the heavy summer dust used to run into the panels and cracks after a summer rain shower, in fact i’m sure some of the photo’s i sent to @johnlyons show this? plus i think it would translate down to 15mm you just have to clean it up a bit more…..simples!…. and i believe @piers who does beautiful 1/72 ‘god’s scale’ wargaming pieces uses a lot of pigments on his work……and by god he does some cracking stuff……
now all you need to do is get a pencil (a number 2b is good or some ‘steel’ pigment powder) and rub the edges of some panels and the tracks to bring that ‘metal’ look effect……..but that’s just my suggestion!………lol…….however @lloyd your stuff looking great keep it going mate……you can’t have to much ‘green’!….lol
……………………Ok……………. i can’t just sit here a say nothing about the Saturday show…has someone who is just coming off CITALOPRAM for depression and anxiety…and i called them my ‘Nutter pills’… i was ‘NOT’….REPEAT….’NOT’…. offended by anything the lads had to say about ‘that’ game…………… in fact i am ….$%&*^^ sick and tired of people being ‘offended’ on behalf of people like me……….if you are that sensitive about mental health issues and jokes etc regarding mental health issues………find another job!………….
……… because has a ‘Nutter’…….i’m OK with it………
………….if this ‘Offends’ anybody i’m sorry……………… in fact….truthfully i’m not sorry….
….cheers……………………….. i’m now off to smash something up!…………( that’s a joke by the way! )………
…………have a good day people…………..
Great Post @bluesun2517
This might be the most sensible thing I’ve read on the whole “nutter” subject.
I have friends and family that have suffered with mental health issues and I fully understand the whole topic better than most, but to confuse a discussion on a game with anything to do with real life or real issues……is in itself insane!!!
I agree that everything now seems to cause offence, but if there is no malice or intention I feel that everyone offended should just calmed down.
Great show guys…….as usual!
A large amount of people today thrive in victimhood and finding offense in nothing. As if feeling offended by nothing will kill them or shattertheir existence.
Nutter…the word makes me think of peanutbutter and squirrels. Peanutbuttersquirrel sandwhich?
A large amount of people also fall back on trying to ridicule opinions they don’t agree with, as you have just done.
I refer you to Wheaton’s Law: “Don’t be a dick”.
” but to confuse a discussion on a game with anything to do with real life or real issues……is in itself insane!!!”
So you have no line over which you think a) there are themes that boardgames shouldn’t touch, and b) that shouldn’t be discussed on the Weekender? In the interests of good taste I won’t suggest ‘real life issues’ that are in no way appropriate for being the subject of a boardgame, but I think most people would think they exist. The only question becomes where do you draw the line. As we’re all different then our lines are going to be different. As ever with these things, dialogue and consideration are key.
@redben absolutely correct 🙂
And as we learned here to some of us those lines are not so obvious and in the heat of ‘creating content’ can be totally lost on us.
And there is certainly discussion to be had on the matter and here in the comments is a good place to start.
I only take exception to ‘context’ being removed and words and themes that were not even alluded to (never mind discussed) effectively being placed in the mouths of the lads, as I think that is unfair 🙂
Words, meaning and context come as a package and picking them apart to make a point (even when the point is correct) is not justified if it changes the nature or meaning of that ‘package – of words, meaning and context’
IMHO anyway 🙂
Since it’s already being discussed here, and I didn’t feel like wading in “front stage”, I would like to say, I wasn’t offended by anything the guys said about that game. I would say I find the game itself a bit distasteful, and I always feel a bit disappointed when I see the same sorts of ideas about madness trotted out over and over again. I don’t think it deals sensitively with real human suffering. But the game is just picking up and running with something which is already very much a common theme in the horror genre. Mental illness is already portrayed inaccurately and negatively in horror films, and the game is just repeating those tropes.
Not because I feel I would otherwise not be entitled to an opinion on this, but just to give my perspective context, I have obsessive compulsive disorder, depression and anxiety, and it’s not an exaggeration to call myself a survivor, because I nearly wasn’t at one time. I think most people would find it insensitive to write a mechanic into a game about patents fighting cancer.
But to repeat, I think the discussion about the game between Lloyd, Justin and Khrystan was fine.
@warzan: Discussion is of course a two-way street (if not more so). You have the right to discuss every bit as much as anyone else. The two areas best avoided are ‘it’s just a game’ for the reasons outlined above, and suggesting that the other party has chosen to be upset, rather than acknowledging that they found it upsetting. I confess that this is somewhat of a blindspot for me. I didn’t pay a lot of attention to the segment as it wasn’t a game that interested me, but nor did it raise any red flags for me either and I wasn’t expecting that there’d be some who would take issue with it. It’s been a learning experience for me also.
Out of interest, if someone said “That guy’s a nutter” would you think they meant he was a peanut butter squirrel?
1) Does it look 40K? – Yes, though maybe that’s the point.
2) Are many people going to buy it? – No, though you don’t need it to play the game. Some people will buy it and that’ll be enough given its price.
Yeah it looks like a “boutique” kit. Or something to games shops to buy and put in the window in a diorama.
It actually reminds me of the demon world in Elder Scrolls: Oblivion. My advice? Take healing potions.
Easy way out for roads…. Lemax village sets makes a vinyl cobblestone, brick, and large stone sheet. Simply cut into the size you want and paint it up. I like to adhere it to mdf for stability but that adds weight.
For dirt roads I used house shingles cut to size and painted. Works good but again a large set adds up weight when stored. For light weight roads my buddies used cork sheets. Used the stone texture paint on them and looks great.
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/76uHUegaRKlsvM9vr2ZWwtMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
Textured MDF board roads. Looks good and durable. Con.. heavy when all stacked together.
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/uDH3bA70euDa5mfYnwVTg9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
Happy Sunday!
The proportion of those half-track figures looks completely wrong, they look far too big to me; or maybe It’s my 15mm PSC version I’m comparing with that’s wrong.
@dignity, the Convergence battle engine was released in plastic earlier this year, and the new colossals will be in plastic.
Here’s some sprues –
.html
@lloyd I have a massive printer i can use in a3 so this would be awesome for me, screw everbody else.
Happy Sunday!
Happy Sunday
Most printers in the uk are a4 and coloured if you spend the money on the ink.
The grim fort is very grim and the price tag is over the top for what you get. No one could justify spending so much on just a single terrain piece. GW think before you price would be a good mantra to take on board.
Looking forward to seeing what you guys will come up with for Tanks of War 3D.
Sod the small scales tho, I’ll be playing in my garden with 1/56s!!!
Enjoy your BH 😎
‘Tanks of War’.. Lol. it’s WAR OF TANKS!
Sorry. Still suffering from the after effect of the lobotomy..
Happy sunday!- I have something to share with you guys, I print a lot of stuff in colour and here in UK HP is doing deal when you buy a printer and a account sort of thing, you pay monthly ( my deal is 100 pages for 3,75) and your ink cartridge is send to you when your is running out. In this way I print a lot of rulebooks that are available for free, army list and terrain on thick paper ( like infinity containers). if you not gonna print your 100 pages what ever is left its just stays for next month, so you end up with 200 pages to use, ( I never had more than 9 pages left)
so answer top Lloyd question – I do print on A5
GW set not good looking and way to expensive. but it is definitely design with 40k in mind.
shame that my works dont have this tanks on deal…
I do pigment on 15 mm and it works just fine Lloyd.
PP going in to plastic! yes please – this is very good news, I love to work with their metal because platicrap they used was so bad – looses so much detail, cant remove mold lines…. so on so on , big hurray for plastic! I would buy battle box in plastic first day available.
That HP ink sounds like a good deal, as long as you’re printing a lot in colour. Do they do it for their A3 printers too?
WOLF OF TANKS..err work of tanks of course.
I’m going over to Kickstarter and pledge myself as a stretch goal…
Printed roads sounds like a good idea. My only reservation is the cost in ink. Perhaps you could explore printing on grey paper that way, you would need far less ink but you would not be able to have any very light hi lights.
That’s an ingenious idea. Light grey paper might work well enough to provide highlights, but grey enough to reduce the amount of ink used. The other option is to used a darker grey with less shading, so using even less ink, and then adding freehand highlights with a white pencil.
It’s an option that I’d like to see explored in a Hobbylab. Paraphrasing @warzan: “cheaper is better”.
The lemax stuff looks pretty good. I’m not sure how much of the range will be easily available in the UK. Most of the retailers within 100k of London look to be garden centres.
Really like the World of Tanks miniatures game idea….The idea of tokens brings to mind the X-Wing miniatures game, particularly the maneuver dial. You could set it to such moves like going hull down, firing smoke and pulling back, move-shoot-move, and so forth. When concealed you could have a chit that rests on top of the dial that you reveal. You could also have tank crew cards, variable on quality along with historic tank commanders like Pool or Wittman or even Oddball. 🙂
Ok, so google fu employed……
http://www.christmasatdawsons.co.uk/lemax/product.asp?pid=34918
Happy Sunday God Bless Everyone
For the “World of Tanks TTG” I would probably prefer to use my Flames of War tanks and terrain. Just because it is already there and ready to use, may be buy some more vehicles 🙂
Besides the price that is one of the main issues I have with those new GW terrain tiles. They can only be used for one special scenario and their design is so unique it is almost impossible to combine them with other buildings and still look cool as a whole table. For my own gaming table I want buildings which can be used in many different scenarios or even games. Like your Lake Town terrain, for example.
Thanks for the great show again – I’m inspired to dust some models now 😀
Happy Sunday!
@lloyd – Tabetop WoT, see p93 of Bolt Action:Tank Wars 🙂
Anyone else look at the bottom of this page and keep seeing the Beasties 2014 winners and wishing it now said 2015, because the awards were awesome. In fact it was the first BoW I ever saw. Must have some kind of hypnosis in it cos I’ve been frigging hooked since. Left my wife and kids, sold the car, mortgaged the house and bought all the miniatures for nearly every game on the market…..not really… I do watch The Weekender a lot though. Wife and teenager laugh at me more now. When and what is the next Bootcamp???? I want a hangover breakfast.
If your wife/teenager watch any soaps, point out that the acting in the Weekend is infinitely better. 😀
Happy Sunday!
i used to be a big fantasy player years ago until a change of circumstances meant the arnies had to go to pay the mortgage. once things settled the GW new pricing structure had me priced out of playing and that side of the hobby.
do i like the new figures and story?
well the simple answer is no they leave me cold and dont excite me at all. i feel they are a safe option rehashing old ideas. after playing fantasy for 20+ years ive been in GW several times checking out the new stuff and have left bored and uninspired.
Now the price!!!!
what madman in todays economical climate thinks its ok to put a price label of only £95, only £50, only £75 and more with bigger pieces in the region of to quote GW only £500 or only £1000. it doesn’t make sense. most hobbyists unless their earning mega bucks have rent, bills and food to buy on a limited income, these prices mean gaming doesn’t become viable due to cost. yes some will do it but anyone with responsibilities or a family cant. which brings me to family.
kids we all have em and their the future of our hobby without their interest and participation things will soon die. The strain of most hobbies or interests at a young age are borne by the parents, again very much on a limited income with bills to find, how does GW expect to get and keep new hobbyists with these prices? within the last week i was in the GW in Hull and witnessed first hand the crazy attempt of a GW salesperson trying to win over a mother of three boys wanting to play soldiers as they put it because their cousin did it. within five minutes he had them leaving the shop after he tried with his its only £50 for this then youll need this at £40 with a project box at $40 to keep it in etc etc. bearing in mind there were three of them he amassed a bill of over £200 just for one and the mum couldnt see what she was getting to warrant the price. When asked directly by the mum why so expensive he simply stated ah but its quality stuff.
At this point i approached the mum and had a lengthy discussion about the other options available for less money giving her a few web addresses including BOW and my email so i could send her links to free rules and other stuff to look at and non GW clubs locally. the GW salesperson had nothing, the mum was desperate to get the kids doing the hobby for its creative side rather than being on the XBOX all day, but ruled it out entirely once the GW prices were quoted, how many times is this being repeated across Britain and elsewhere?
As perhaps the most visible ambassador for our hobby in most cities these days i personally think GW give the wrong impression, they are overpriced definitely and set a precedent that this hobby has to be funded by mega bucks.
thats it rant over coffee time now……….. we need i think a budget gaming website or area of BOW where gaming on a budget ideas can be collected to increase gaming for all not just those with access to money. remember KIDS (love em or hate em, i prefer jack Russells) are our future……no song intended
I think the problem is that GW is being run for the shareholders and they want as much money as quickly as possible rather than slightly less money, but sustained over a longer period. In their minds, they quicker they make a fast buck, the sooner they can go and invest that in something else, making an even bigger buck in as short a time as possible and so on.
Personally I think GW would draw more people in of they did bundle deals. For example, the big fortress kit shown in the vid is a bundle of various other kits to make a big fortress, but you don’t save anything over buying it separately, so really even someone who wants the big fortress has no incentive to buy it when they can get it piece by piece. And it’s the same with every other bundle they’ve done for several years – the only advantage to the bundle is that it saves some clicking on the webstore as you only have to add one thing to your cart rather than each set individually.
I think GW would draw more money in if they did things like buy an infantry box for 40k, get a transport for half price (eg, buying a box of tactical marines gets you a rhino for half price). For Fantasy (before they canned it for AoS) as one of the complaints was entry level price they could have done something like buy two regiment boxes, get a third free, thus lowering the entry level for people wanting to get into the game (or vets starting a new army), and making it easierfor people to actually field the horde units they wanted people to play in 8th. Your point about people having limited money to buy things (especially kids) is a good one – I’ve always maintained that if say blisters are priced at £5 or £6 with a two for £10 deal, then a kid with £10 pocket money will probably buy two blisters, but if they are priced at £6 with no deal, they’ll buy one and then go spend £4 on sweets/comics/etc somewhere else.
Well said. I’ll always have a soft spot for GW (or more specifically Warhammer Fantasy) as that was my entry point into this hobby almost 20 years ago. With a family and houshold to pay for nowadays, my disposable income is drastically reduced and I’ve had to become a lot more discerning when it comes to what I buy. As a grown man in his 30s, much as I like some of GW’s products, I simply couldn’t justify the expense of getting into 40k or AoS. As you pointed out, thankfully GW no longer have a monopoly on mini wargaming and there are plenty of other games out there that are a lot less expensive and (IMHO) have much better rulesets.
I don’t want the warcasters being plastic. I like my heroes being metal.
I thought Justin was your hero, and he’s not metal.
What gave you that impression? :s
Im lost for words, so lost in fact that I commented stating so.
I counted 13 words above @johnlyons 🙂
W-w-what’s that even supposed to mean?
I do apologise. You wrote that Justin was sexier with a beard, and not that he was your hero. I retract my previous statement. 😉
Well I’m just telling the truth…..
I think 20mm/1:72 is definitely the way to go
For models, check out Armourfast.com. 2 fast build models for £7.50 pus shipping, I think Italeri also have a small range fast build models in the same scale.
Turns out Armourfast also have a set of tank game rules available for £1:50. Just ordered a copy for appraisal as WoT on the tabletop is something I’ve thought of in the past as well.
Numbered tokens is a good idea, though I’m not sure how you would balance the teams, since you don’t want to end up with all the heavies on one side, maybe need 2 Med/Lt tanks to unlock 1 heavy? Or line up all the models everyone brings, and take turns choosing vehicles until there are none left/both players have the same number (if there are an odd number, then the player with the fewer heavies gets the extra tank).
Regarding artillery, I’m not sure it would work in a tabletop game, since if it fires while concealed (and therefore has no counter/model on the table) it will tell your opponent if you have artillery and exactly where it is. My choices for vehicle classes would therefore be just Lt/Med/Hvy/TD.
The AOS terrain is probably designed to sell to both AOS and 40K players. If you throw some of the multiple barreled cannons that Justin used on the defiler, as AAA on top of those towers it would look perfect for 40K. I actually hate the over the top stylised look that GW has been adopting for all it products lately, I prefer a little more realism or perhaps just less suspension of disbelief in my army.
I regularly use the work A0 plotter to print out battle maps for role playing. So I will probably stitch multiple road sections together and print them all at once as a complete road network.
I think part of GW’s problem is they’ve got into the mind set of just because they have the technology to do something, then they should do it. As a result they’ve been cramming more and more bling onto their minis just to show that they can do it. They’d probably be better off producing blander kits (not completely bland mind you – they need some character) and then producing sprues of bling. That way people who don’t like painting, people who aren’t good at painting and newbies won’t be put off by having to paint loads of details, while those who like paint, are good at painting and those who love converting will buy the bling upgrade kits to add to their minis to make them look nicer. And having seperate bling kits might boost sales as people who like converting would buy them for conversions especially for skirmish games and/or RPGs where they want minis to have more character than the faceless masses of ranked regiments have 😉
On Roads: regarding the not many available vs no one uses them point, are there few available because no one uses them, or do people not use them because there are few available? Personally I like using roads even if they don’t have an in game effect; for example when I play WH Fantasy at my local club I often lay down roads even though there is no in game effect because I think it just makes the table look more complete. Same when Mordheim gets played at my club, people often use roads just for the aesthetic (and we even usually arrange buildings along/around the roads as well).
Regarding Lloyd’s homemade roads, the make some 8″ and some 4″ sounds like a good idea, especially as you could make some of the 4″ into crossroads sections. On the point of making it wide enough for a Land Raider and then adding 2″ of pavement to each side ending up with an unwieldyly wide road, does it really have to be wide enough for a Land Raider? Remember they’re supposed to be civilian roads, not ones built to military spec. Why not shave a couple inches off each side so that the road itself may be too narrow for the Land Raider, but with the pavement it is wide enough; I can easily imagine if a Land Raider drove down a street (unless it was a major street/promenade/etc which you’re not going for with the cobblestone look unless I’m mistaken) it’d be crushing postboxes and lampposts and knocking off window boxes, hanging signs, etc. Something which might be easier for you is looking into textured wallpaper; iirc, in an old GW terrain book they had a section on making roads and they used textured wall paper (or at least something like it) which had a sort of cobblestone texture to make cobblestone roads. No idea where you’d get it from though.
On the Chaos fort: I agree it’s ugly. It’s very much a John Blanche like thing (ie there are a few good ideas but over all it just looks hideous and badly done). It puts me in mind of the Black Gate and Barad-dûr as the LotR films interpreted them, but with loads of skulls slapped on and made more ornate but in doing so doesn’t look as evil or as cool. I agree that something that looks more like a standard fortification that has been Chaosified would be better. In fact I think it would have been better to make a generic castle and then produce upgrade kits for it (eg the Chaos kit would have Chaos icons, ‘mutations’ etc, the Orc kit would have Orc icons, hides/wood/etc that have been crudely hammered in, etc) and they could then even produce a ruined version that is either an upgrade kit or a seperate set that uses parts of the standard version with a few sprues swapped out for new sprues of ruined sections (similar to how they made a round tower (forget it’s name now) but also made a ruined version which used some of the sprues of the intact one and some new sprues of ruined sections). Unless I’m mistaken, the main selling point of the old Mighty Fortress and why it lasted so long was because it was generic it was so versatile – it worked for WH, 40k, LotR, historics and other fantasy games, so why not try and repeat that success by producing another generic castle (thus drawing in money from non AoS/40k players) that is easily modified with additional kits?
On the tank game idea: I agree with Justin’s idea of tanks returning to blips when out of sight again.
Don’t know if it’ll work, but how about also having some ‘false’ blips; eg say you have 15 tanks, then you get 20 blip counters, 5 of which are false signals and don’t represent tanks. This furthers the mind games/shell games you can play on your opponent. Not sure how you’d handle them after revealing them though. You could remove them, or could have them returning to blips once out of sight. I suppose it’d depend on what exactly you want them to represent (eg if it’s infantry starting fires and making noise or something to fake the presence of the tank it might be best to just remove it and hand wave it as saying on being found out they were shot at and killed thus removing the complication of adding in infantry to the game, if it’s representing false blips on radar, then it could return to being a blip somehow). Might work better if you have fixed/dug in artillery as an alternative to Justin’s hidden deployment idea – each artillery piece has two or three blip counters (not sure how many would be balanced) representing that you know there’s artillery out there somewhere, but not exactly where it is. Not sure how it would be best to resolve them though (eg if you find out the artillery is in a ruined building, would to remove the false counters for that tank, or leave them in place) or if there should be restrictions on deployment (eg can the counters go anywhere, or do the false counters and real counters have to be deployed within a set distance of each other).
Nice custom job on that chaos walker Justin. I’m not a minis or 40K guy but I can see when something looks right.
Is it only me and my iPad, but audio lag seems much worst these days.
I only get it on the xlbs or other back stage vid’d ?
Might be an iPad problem as I’ve experienced it too some times.
I get this too. Only on iPad though, PC seems fine.
@loyd
Discovered this stuff years ago for roads. Its essentially sheet fiberglass with that random stoney texture on it. I think it is used for cheap panelling in bathrooms. $30 US gets me an 8x4ft sheet, that will make all the roads i need.
Just cut the stuff outside, as it smells aweful when you cut it. Not sure if its available the other side of the pond.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Unbranded-4-ft-x-8-ft-White-090-FRP-Wall-Board-MFTF12IXA480009600/100389836
This is a cool idea, post it in the forums so it doesn’t get lost in this thread.
GW is gone mad, They SCREAM ” RULES OF AOS ARE FREE” but in the meantime the minatures are more expensive!
Terrain is more expensive!
They bring out books for terrain/scenenarios that are more expensive!
Offcourse all the models and terrain looks 40k because, all the exsistens fantasy have a lot of models allready ( and only the nutters gone rebase or buy new) , and all 40k players thinking if AOS does not work i can use models/terrain in my 40k games. GW is so trying to sell there fantasy into a bigger market, but neclecking the old fantasy players.
And come on PLASTIC from CHINA is REAL CHEAP to produce, and the Castle is created in “copy paste mode” ( so develpment cost are low) and then they charging prizes of its made out of freaking GOLD.
How can anybody afort that amount of money for there hobby!! i find it real hard believe in GW, and after 20 years collecting Warhammer Fantasy minis i stop bying anything from GW anymore.
Futher more, GW opend up 7 extra stores here in The Netherlands the last 2 years !! WHY nobodys knows, here in The netherlands we have “the magic INTERNET” where we buy all or models and games because its cheaper and diliverd on your doorsteps. 90 % of new players do not visit a GW store but learn of a new game by friends or local gameclub. Better then close all store and make product cheaper.
in a 50 miles radius form center “the Netherlands” there are 8 GW stores and 38 stores that sell GW products !! that is a bit over the top in my book
I did not se this answered yet. Here in the states the standard printer paper is 8.5″ wide by 11″ long. I have now idea what sizes you lot use.
Sorry my page reloaded and I put this in the wrong thread.
If Privateer Press release the Angelius for Legion of Everblight in plastic, I’ll buy one in a heartbeat. It’s one of the best warbeasts in the game, but the metal model is awful: having to pin SIX wings onto a skinny metal serpent is not fun. Hell, if they bring it out in plastic I’d consider buying two.
They’re nuts! That’s what i said to myself when i saw the new AOS chaos scenery. Overpriced and ugly as (excuse the pun) hell! And the thing i did not see at the time, it’s that you have to buy a book to use it…
I’m happy to see Privateer Press going into plastic, i’ve always love to look of there minis but the metal aspect turned me away, i have to many bad memory of my early days of 40K to have gone that road again… I’ll give them time to turn up basic infantry and warcaster and i’ll be checking them up!
Happy sunday!
Justin’s converted Defiler looks ace – well done!
I really like the Chaos skull fort. It does look 40K / Eye of Terror, but I think that’s the point. The new setting is basically a bunch of Eye of Terror style daemon worlds, and this crazy John Blanche, impractical, trophy of a castle fits that very well.
It has the added advantage of not being something that is easily copied by a competitor and sold at a significantly lower price of course, which fits into GW’s efforts over the last few years to redesign games and settings in the name of IP protection…
Not that it stops it being far, far too expensive for what it is.
@lloyd Print those roads out, there’s no point in hand drawing repetitive shapes when you can do it in a fraction of the time in photoshop. 😀
The thing that bugs me about the aesthetics of the chaos fort is the computer-designed-and-repeated pattern over the entire structure. I understand the multiple price point strategy for the kits. Not everyone is supposed to be able to afford the full fortress.
Yup, that bugs me too. If it had been properly sculpted in the style the guys mentioned (a chaotic corruption of the stonework) I could understand them setting a premium price for it. But looking at the unimaginative cut ‘n’ paste wall sections it feels as though they are mocking the customers.
Compared to the sculpting on the Realm Gates, the chaos castle is like a cruddy budget job from the 80’s.
for the world of tanks game, you could use playing cards having lights be hearts, mediums being diamonds, heavies being clubs, and artillery being aces
and have a standard template for all stats, like hits on a 3+, -1 for cover
, and can bounce shots(like an armor save) if hit, and if they move more than A distance must snap shot usually on a 6, and each one has a set amount of health
lights get to move x, and snapshot on a 5 or 6, bounce shots on a 6, and have 2 health.
mediums move y, and snapshot on a 6, bounce shots on a 5 or 6, and have 4 health.
heavies move z, snapshot on a 6, bounce on a 4 5 or 6, and have 6 health.
artillery moves w, can not snap shoot, bounces on a 6, and has 2 health, but can fire speculatively at enemy cards and hits on a 5 or 6 and doses not bounce.
also each player gets 2 joker cards for, bad intelligence, that when spotted dissapear, or if damaged dissapear
These are some great ideas, depending on the feedback from @elaric about the the armourfast rules, i’d also add the following:
When moving backwards half speed, (anyone in WoT has done this at some point)
Derp guns, double normal damage fire every other turn -1 of normal accuracy?
Penetration guns, fire every other turn, normal damage -1 to bounce – alternatively -1 to hit as trying to place shot more carefully to penetrate instead of every other turn shot..
Restrict those to hvys only.
Maybe leave, arty & TDs out for now till basic rules nailed down.
Also could use cards for activation, use face cards for tanks, and have a deck of the numbered cards, drawing odds for 1 player and evens for the other, a kinda Bolt Action idea, but also allow some tanks to react fire, Lights/Mediums, but then that counts as their go done, allocating next move card to them as already taken.
React fire being at -1 hit chance.
Hope we get Salute Star Wars and Pod Racing soon.
Have you considered abandoning “turns” and using “time steps”? Say every tank gets a time step ( maybe 3 seconds) where it can do 1 action: Move a certain distance without firing, stop and fire, move and turn turret, move and fire, etc…and then repeat. So you can have a dogfight-like experience.
Playing games in the 70’s and 80’s I have played a few systems with this sort of mechanism and to be honest it lengthens the game play something shocking, I think you need something fast and furious for WoT type game. Featherstone wrote a really simple set of rules in the 60’s that might work with a few changes to allow for activation etc… The free wargames rules site might have some that you could modify
Happy sunday chaps! 😀
Great comment threads, lots of intresting reading.
Regarding the AOS mini-set I do agree it looks awefull but thats my/our taste speaking. Others will like it. I found it sad that Christens (The guy to the left) theories were more or less ignored as he was moving into interesting areas there, at least for people who have some background around GWs fluff. But hey, anybody can be tired and cranky 😛
Im just löooking forward “Age of the Empror” and the full downfall of GW and watch how other companies will revamp 40k and fantsy just as Mutant Chronicles did. (Kings of War aswell)
Sally 4th for roads
http://wargamesbuildings.co.uk/epages/950003459.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/950003459/Products/28R001
Hey whats all this talk of GW being arse cakes, and the use of tanks n stuff. Let’s talk Infinity..ain’t it great!
World of tanks should be 20mm. Your original feeling was right. 15mm isnt cinematic enough.
Not to keen on the chaos fortress look as if it was made to use up a backlog of skulls but I’m not a chaos player.
Multiple tank tokens for each tank, maybe 3. One for its actual location, others when spotted are revealed as blank and then removed to increase that fog of war.
@lloyd
Check out Two Hour Wargames for ideas about using counters and tokens for “hidden” movement. I know that they are used in their Vietnam game FNG. The NVA / VC side get (let’s say) 6 token but only 4 of them are real. Until the token(s) is/are in the open and spotted by the Allied side it stays a token of unknowable size and strength. This can be really fun!
Also, if I recall correctly, in the Two Hour Wargames FNG – because the VC were always “everywhere at once” they were allowed to move all across the board, as long as they moved exclusively through the jungle. So, if a normal movement was 6 inches, they were allowed to move the entire length of the board if they started in the jungle (out of sight) and could move through deep jungle without being seen.
I was wondering if you could/should include a mechanic of this sort somehow for the light tanks that would zip around the board. Or maybe you could use this for scouting vehicles somehow. In a game where the Tiger tank and the Panther tanks are an option, there needs to be a reason to take the PZ III right? 😉
Happy Sunday! Great show as always, just a quick question is anyone else finding the sound is out of sync with the video? Or is it just me.
@thescotsman I’m guessing you might be watching on an iPad or similar device. If so that’s the problem as the player seems to introduce a bit of audio lag on those sort of mobile devices. If you have a PC of some sort try it and see.
GW chaos terrain… £600 plus, it’s !@#$^^^ plastic.
I think that half track is pants, a horrible model, with terrible minis. Machine guns don’t have flames coming out the bottom of them. The explosion occurs inside the sealed breach. Hot ejected brass lighting up fuel is very debatable. I’ve had a lot of experience firing machine guns. I also don’t like plastic, I feel like we’re all being seen off by the manufacturers. Metal.
“I also don’t like plastic” – Why not?
I think the fact I could bounce the plastic Warjack on the table and it stay in one peace is a clear advantage of using plastic.
Yes I see the advantage of the durability, but my dislike is a cost/material thing. It’s Plastic and they companies are charging a fortune. There are not real costs to making these things. Development – a meeting with employees who are being paid and in the day to day costing already; it’s basically just tell the geek that’s into that thing to come up with a picture ect. Sculptor – he/she is already employed (maybe contract out). Make a prototype – already bought the materials in bulk, already paid for. Have a meeting with employees (see previous) decide its a go. Tell the chinese peasant labour make everything – cost??? thats right you guessed it !@#$ all.
By introducing plastic it has devalued the product we are getting (just like this silver coating on a 50p is not silver but nickel. And we think were getting a good deal because we’re told about quality. It’s !@#$^^^ plastic not carbon fibre. The costs that their charging would be accurate from a start up company in its first year demanding a profit. Infinity miniatures show that you can get an excellent standard of detail on metal. You feel them in your hand ( and yes I know you can feel plastic) and it feels good. I take care when handling miniatures and models because I have spent my valuable time on them. Time I have to steal from other commitments. Your being robbed blind and you don’t even know it. I feel like I’m playing Lobotomy. It’s !@#$^^^ plastic. Rise up my brothers and sisters; demand quality on quality material. What would your missus say if you gave here a well painted and detailed plastic wedding ring? TV dinner for one for the rest of your days. Plastic car? No ect infinitum. Fred Dibnah would be like “EY BY ECK, WHAT’S THIS SHITE”
I had a historically driven war gamer, keen on bolt action and similar games, saying that plastics felt less like serious war gaming and more like board game pieces that are easily moved with a bump of the playing surface.
I argued the advantages of cost and less chipping and breakages and was knocked down by several other users that a good build and a decent base coat minimise chipping and breakage.
I was also told if you want a cheap hobby don’t choose this one and buy a board game.
It wasn’t actually as vicious as this sounds and I love the bolt action Facebook page that I visit. (Desperately supportive with terrain and painting projects and titbits of research)
I must say that moving a metal soldier to set location, knowing he’s not wondering anywhere with every sneeze, does feel good. I have moved a squad of plastic miniatures up to a hedge, moved on with the game a few actions and looked back and am certain sure that there are at least 2 that have moved half an inch, which could occasionally mean a lot in the game.
The only issue I have had with metal miniatures has been one or two Infinity models with small components and the carbine barrel ends snapping off of the bolt action US airborne squad.
Cost is a big deal for me and even with the satisfaction of moving a metal miniature, I still have to support plastic over resin and metal, because it will ultimately allow me to expand my collection without pricking my conscience about how much I’m spending.
Could you clarify, because I don’t think you were clear enough above.
Are you or are you not a fan of plastic?
Yeah. I know it’s uber detailed and yes assembly is better with the glue. Metal is a paint in the arse to assemble. It’s simpler to repair and modify. Yes I see it but the cost is a terrible thing.
The standard print size in the states is about 8.5in x 11in. Paper stock has probably the widest range of weights at that size.
@lloyd I think that you should look at latex casting for your cobblestone roads. You guys seem to have the silicone casting down. Add latex, which should lay flat on most of your surfaces and you could use scissors to trim to fit. Some people voice concern about tearing but you could back the casting with muslin fabric.
Privateer moving to plastic is a plus. While the metal made me much better at pinning and gap filling with green stuff, it leaves a lot of novices out in the cold.
If this castle is anything like the other age of sigmar buildings, you need loads of greenstuff to make it fit. Friend of mine bought some of the others. They just dont fit, and they are from a different kind of plastic wich dont hold the detail verry good
Hi guys and Backstagers,
Great show, thanks as always. I’m not sure how to start this, but it’s been boiling up in me now since GW killed my game. Yep this is an AOS rant, but I hope a rational one.
I have been painting Citadel miniatures since school, before Warhammer, just when it was D&D, Tunnels & Trolls and Runquest, Sci Fi was basically Traveller. I rejoiced the idea of a game for miniatures when Warhammer began, and after the normal break you have for College, career and girls, I started a family and a decade ago started painting miniatures again.
As a painter more than a gamer, I liked the challenge of Fantasy over 40k, although I have armies in both. The idea of painting 100 men at arms, all beautiful all individual, is a challenge I enjoy and fortunately at this stage of life can just about afford. If I wanted something lighter, I could play 40K, so all good. So then GW decide as the overhead is now too big to make Fantasy profitable, they will change the game. A decision which was heralded as a good one by all on BOW and many other channels.
As a painter, I can go with it, but it did make me wonder the wisdom of the economics. At this point in the new launch, I would like to point out as I try to explain to the son of a friend, what he could buy as a newbie, to start playing AOS. I thought I should share this as a reality check!
So far you need 1. Intro rules – free pdf download
2. Softback rulebook if you want to know what world and time you are in. £45
3. Hardback rules if you want to keep and collect it. £80
4. Plus any or all of the up coming 8 other rule books – one for each realm!
(Side note, Warren you mentioned I’d AOS ended up with a rule book it would be a failure, well it looks like we might end up with 8 or 9 books each in SoftBack about £45!)
5. Then you need miniatures! Which factional are available to a newbie?
Well you can get either Khone daemons, Godlike Sigmarines, A Tree army or A Rat army!
Any humans? Nope, Dwarves, Elves? Nope it’s Deamons or Trees, plus the rules plus in Euros where I am a 900 euros fortress.
So in conclusion, the players like me who have Fantasy armies on Square bases, I have 5 of them! Who have joke rules and are in limbo waiting for a rule book that covers them! For new players like my friend son you get £2 pocket money a week, good luck on getting the Fortress of Grim, which by the way, if the design brief was for people to feel revulsion when they saw it, GW good work. I just don’t know, because yes if the Fortress of Grim was better looking and my armies still worked, I could afford, but as GW don’t want my money anymore, i won’t be buying.
Just for those who think I haven’t tried AOS, I have the starter set, limited editions first rule book, the realm gates, and the novels, it got that far before I thought hold on here!
I just don’t know what GW was thinking.
Anyway thanks for reading, happy Sunday, back to Dungeon Saga
The Cygnar jack was not the first PP hard plastic kit.
That honor fell to the Transfinite Emergence Projector from the Cyris faction.
The Star Wars RPG: Age of Rebellion has a lot of detail on characters and vehicles. You should check it out!
Great show lads. I had my say about Lobotomy yesterday, nice to see another nutter feels the same as me!
20mm sounds good as it opens up the old Airfix range of models as well as others. I enjoyed making them as a kid!
GW seem to be pricing themselves out of the market but it should leave a nice gap for an enterprising company to produce a range of cheaper Sigmarish scenery.
Anyway Happy Sunday although I’m a bit behind and it’s now Monday. Keep up the good work.
Nicely going forward with your Dust tank @lloyd
As for the GW fortress. It is ugly but it does have this Khorne feel about it that GW is pushing for some time now. I do not like the looks of it but I must admit the company is quite coherent with the products. It is dull but it is coherent and yes, I believe you could use this really overpriced buildings in 40k.
Fortress of Grim Corruption and all the bastion of chaos is very expensive. One of the hobby aspects of wargaming is terrain building. Really good terrain can be scratch built at a tiny fraction of the prices of these GW terrain pieces. I would simply create my own towers and walls – make them modular and customize them to what looks good to me. Skip buying the huge terrain pieces from GW. My goal for terrain is to build it cheaply. A whole 4×6 table of terrain for less than $100 US is easy, less than $50 US might be a bit tougher.
Tank on tank battles is a great idea. My recommendation is to keep the core mechanics simple. Play a few battles with perhaps all medium tanks to get the mechanics down solid. Then, start adding or shifting the tank profiles. However, getting the core mechanics down before tweaking them for lighter or heavier tanks will allow you to get the feel and verisimilitude right.
Sounds like a plan.
For printable roads the Perry’s Heroes website as some nice options (also some good printable buildings and even rail track), would always be interested to see more alternative styles though
Here is a link to the roads section of the site
http://midgard.pagesperso-orange.fr/ww2/psh_droads.htm
and to the home page
http://midgard.pagesperso-orange.fr/ww2/psh_title.htm
Hope the links work
Thanks for the entertaining show – my first XBLS. Re roads – your might look at the model railway downloadable files for printing – for example http://scalescenes.com/scratchbuilders-yard
and http://www.modelrailwayscenery.com/paving/
These files can be downloaded and then printed out to what ever scale you require.
An number of other railway based material is available for downloading and I have certainly read articles in Railway model magazines. – nice to seed that one area of modelling can inform another area 🙂
Loved the chat about the guys’ hobby time.
I will hunt for a demo game introduction to Frostgrave because it sounds fun.
The X-Wing campaign pilot experience ideas sounds excellent. Perhaps the different pilot types (Gunner, Engineer etc.) tech tree upgrade idea feels complicated, but I would be playing any games with my 10 year old son and have never played the game yet.
I hope that the figures are eventually released about how many of the AoS fortresses are sold, because I feel the cost is as frightening as the ugly features of the terrain itself IMHO.
(I often comment on price, and feel thrifty and thought of as naïve as a result, but I am a convert to paying more than £2 per miniature and feel that my threshold as to what I consider expensive has raised in line with more people in the community since investing in Infinity.)
@lloyd
I tried to use Excel spread sheets to create a roof effect. It worked OK. I used thin grey paint washes over the top and the pattern of the roof tiles just about shows through.
You can create a huge amount of columns of a short width and a set number of rows and ask Excel to put lines around as many fields as you like.
Perhaps in finishing the look off you would need to distress areas to ensure it didn’t look brand new and perfect. I found that with my roof I could highlight an individual cell and increase or decrease it’s width to add some variety, but if you’re not careful you can end up spending as much time tinkering as you would drawing it out by hand. It took several wasted printed pages while I tried to get the right scale and sizes, but it might be something you could toy with?
Happy Sunday.
Just catching up after a week with no broadband!
Couple of comments as requested.
1. Castle Skullskull
Yeuch. Always hated GW’s skull obsession. Aesthetics aside, there’s no way I’d pay so much for something with so little point. Ridiculous, ugly, useless, expensive.
2. Printers
A3 is find for me.
3. Tanks.
1:72 / 20mm is the perfect scale for tank-focused games. Large enough to be nice models, but small and cheap enough to have lots.
A source of cheap tanks at this scale is Armourfast.