November 8, 2011 by darrell
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Well... everyone at the office has been looking into the new Necron Codex and now Warren and Darrell are going to update everyone on what's been found by us and the community... post your arguments below!
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I can’t see any video…
Oh, it’s just a discussion. Well, I think to Doom Scythe weapon is OP if you’re going by your rules. UP if going by alternate “only hits number of models the line touches” rule.
Nope there is a vid 😉
Delayed reaction!
OK, thanks, up now. Was confused.
Also, I agree with your view on the rules 100%. Being a Tau player I would hope to 1 hit this vehicle 1st turn anyway.
Now I will stop spamming comments.
My mum tells me its ok to be cocky! – until we’re FAQ’d 😉
Seriously bad bit of writing there though on the doom ray, and example would have cleared that up no end.
Video seems to be cut off at the end.
Justin is looking into this. We’ll replace the video once its fixed, in the mean time we can argue about the first half 😉
Thanks for sorting the video.
check out the spanish FAQ… or discussions on boards all over the place. Its bad english on the side of the writers, but its still far from as clear cut as you say.
Case is… its only the number of models under the line.
I was wrong before. The text definitely states the unit suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in that unit under the line.
Thus three models under the line, three hits. Bit of a bugger, but there’s no need to roll to hit, it’s S10 AP1 and I think, the key is in how flexible it is.
PS http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2010238a_Necrones_0.0_a_Noviembre_2011.pdf
That seems to clear it up. Babel fish says:
Ray of death. The third phrase replaces by: “Each unit (as much friend as enemy) that it is under this line, will undergo an equal number of impacts to the number of miniatures of this unit that is under the line.”
So it is just the number of models under the line.
Jeez maybe we should just put Babel fish between Mr Ward and the rest of Humanity. Shocking bit of writing 🙁
I got this with google translate.
Death Ray. Replace the third sentence: “Each
unit (both friendly and enemy) that it is under this line,
suffer a number of hits equal to the number of thumbnails
of the unit who are under the line. ”
Do necrons have thumbnails?
Personally of the opinion it hits the entire unit as the minimum length ray of 3″ would make it useless.
Miniaturas translates as miniature, miniatures, or thumbnails. This is a simple synonym error on google’s translation.
A very easy example for death ray:
The line goes over 3 units.
The line goes over 2 models of unit A, 3 models of unit B and 4 models of unit C.
Unit A takes 2 hits, Unit B takes 3 hits, Unit C takes 4 hits.
Totally get that but that’s not what the rule says. Now it may well turn out to be what was meant – heck even a babel fish translation of the spanish rules is clearer than the english version.
I don’t often ‘demand’ things, but i think GW owe the community an FAQ on this – to be honest i think they owe the community a decent level of service where codexes are publicly beta tested to get rid of silly things like this 😉
Why can’t GW and their, what, £20 codex or whatever, include some decent writing and clear rules? Why no examples and a few diagrams for our pleasure? Why did I have to spend £50 on a Warhammer Rulebook only for there to be numerous corrections in the months after its release. It’s sloppy. You really aren’t getting your £’s worth with this stuff. Didn’t they proof read this stuff? Why do I get the feeling these Codexes are sometimes the equivalent of an essay written by a uni student pulling a late nighter before the deadline?
@warzan I think that is what the rules say – could be wrong, but when the rules specifically say “…number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit under the line..”. If the sentence had stopped at the number of models in the unit then I’d heartily agree. At the moment though, appending the …”in the unit under the line…” implies the unit takes as many hits as there are models under the line, not number of models in the unit.
It’s still a great weapon – think the War of the Worlds tripod blasters but it wouldn’t hit all the models in the unit, only those that are under the line.
What really gets me going is if the rules are the way you say they are, why not just say every model under the line is hit? Why make a very simple thing so complicated? This is what makes me think there is more to this rule.
Because that’s how Jaws work, and they didn’t want this weapon to be able to snipe models.
Hence why a unit that is hit receives a number of hits equal to the number of models under the line. that way the player can allocate wounds.
Pardon me if someone already addressed this but the flux arc entry in the armory section of the book specifically states that it can fire to multiple targets… just saying… Gracias very much BoW for doing Necron week for us, you guys ROCK!
I disagree, I think the actual wording of the rules was poorly written. I think obviously, given the points cost as you say, it’s meant to do more than hit 3 or 4 models per shot, but the wording was poor.
But the wording is confusing and an example should have been given in the text. It is stil unclear if each unit suffers a number of hits equal to the total number of all models in all units under the line; or if each unit just takes a number of hits equal to how many models there are in that specific unit (if that’s the case then why the hell isn’t it phrased “every model in every unit that is under the line suffers a hit” … ? I suppose something to do with wound allocation perhaps.
Warren, can you please give an example of what you think the rule works out as, as I’m reading the rule exactly as how my example is laid out. I honestly don’t know how people are reading the rule any differently?
You can apply logic, your reading suggests a modest weapon for something called ‘death ray’. The points cost suggests a far more powerful weapon. The wording is wrong, but you can infer the true meaning from the points cost.
poosh, the death ray does hit every UNIT in it’s line.
And it does an amount of hits to a UNIT, as to how many models of that unit is underneath it’s line.
Otherwise, if the line only hits 1 model of say a 30 strong UNIT of ork boys thats strung out across the board with a 2″ gap between each model, how would it be logical for the weapon to cause a hit on every single model even though alot of the squad is on the other side of the board?
It is written as it is to allow wound allocation.
People are just trying to make this more over powered than it’s written.
Yes, the confusion over the writing is really due to people being less than careful applying the 40k rules. The way it is written conveys the intended meaning, however the word repetition makes it confusing.
Part 1) Any unit with a model under the line suffers hits
Part 2) The number of hits = the number of models in the unit under the line.
Part 3) Roll to would
Part 4)would allocation
The wording is to distinguish it from Jaws type attacks that snipe specific models.
This ship can still take out a rhino wall in 1 turn, or decimate any unit with large bases (easier to clip) or packed up units. No, you cant get more than 30 str 10 ap1 hits for 175 pts.
Dont worry about hordes, the twin linked tesla destructors will help you much through those easy enuf.
The great bit though is blatting through a carnifex, trygon and a unit of tyranid warriors – the death ray is in the flexibility, not the weapon itself.
But yes, for a death ray I want to roll a 2+ and have every model in the army take forty hits at s20.
The wording is bad and this is why there is confusion and why it is hard to simply say you’re wrong. But the points cost being 175 points (?) is a good indicator as to the true intention of the rules.
it’s the same price as the doomsday ark… but is in a line rather then a large blast and has one more str can deep strike and a good tesla weapon… and is super fast…
i agree that 175 points is a good indication of what they intended… (i.e if it was your way there would be no point in the doomsday ark WHATSOEVER)
Let me see. THis isn’t a support or refute of the issue, but a clarification of the what the debate is on death ray. I used quotation marks to mark the phrase grouping that changes the meaning of the sentences subtly.
Interpretation One: Every model (friendly or foe) underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in “the unit underneath the line.”
-Here, the interpretation is more straightforward. There are 10 models in that unit, so that unit takes 10 hits.
-In this case, if the line hits Unit A with 10 models, Unit A takes 10 hits even if only one model was under the line.
Interpretation Two: Every model (friendly or foe) underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models “in the unit” underneath the line.
–I will subtly change add two words to this phrase to sum up the subtle change in meaning:
Every model (friendly or foe) underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit (that are) underneath the line. Notice the plural “are” that I added. That describes models, not unit.
–In this case, If Unit A with 10 models has 3 models under the line, Unit A takes 3 hits.
Might I add that both arguments are legit…so an FAQ is welcome. I’d LIKE to think it’s Interpretation One, but hey, we’ll never know.
the vid seemed to stop part way through you guys talking about necrotic strike or whatever its called
Yeah Justin is taking a look at it, Warren mentioned it above. 🙂
As for this Death Ray – this is the kinda discussion that will cause arguments at a gaming club unless GW do an FAQ and sort it out. Its a shame that as was pointed out, a £20 rulebook has something wrong with its writing style.
Shame…and yet I still like the idea of a Death Ray lol
I can’t seem to get the people arguing for the overpowered case… do we really want a gun that can decimate two 30 boy squads in a single shot in the game? That would be the end of hoarde armies. Be happy that this is actually something that wont be in the game… I’d much rather it was reasonable than another pointless cheesebomb. People complain about Mephiston and GK, but when they see something that seems too good to be true in a codex they like they jump on it (and complain about the others of course)… we could just make the game full of these overpowered things, then we could all spend half an hour setting up our models, roll off and have one side wipe the other from the table, pack our stuff up and go home… wooooooooooow, so much fun.
Be glad its been at least partially cleared up and so much for the better… I too am disappointed with the need to errata and FAQ something that should have been playtested, but in this case? Once its cleared up officially for the English version nobody will think twice about it and we’ll have a much better game.
Having had a quick look around the other GW sites the only updated Necron FAQ I could see was the one posted above. My guess from that was it was done in country so might not have the Nottingham stamp of approval.
Remember as with most cheese this is taking things to extreme. If the definition of the line is the same as for jaws it will be the width of a tape measure on it’s side and only cover 3-18″. That’s not a lot of the board your going to be able to hit for the points you pay for the vehicle.
“Every Unit (friendly or enemy) underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit underneath the line.” So, if unit alpha has five models, it suffers five hits. If unit beta has eight models, it suffers eight hits. If unit gamma of six friendly Necrons is hit, it suffers six hits.
It’s really quite simple but so badly written.
“Every Unit (friendly or enemy) underneath the line” the use of the statment underneath the line here in unison with the term unit means the unit that is hit.
“suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit underneath the line.”
Now the problem starts with the gaming term “models” but it’s only used in regards to “the unit underneath the line” so the unit that’s hit take a number of hits equal to the models in the unit.
Exactly as we read it… i think :S
My head is beginning to hurt!
This is what I think.
If I was playing Necrons, it would mean a number ot hits to match the total number of models in a unit.
If I was playing against necrons, it would be the number of hits to match the number of models under the line.
And thats why its a badly written mess whatever they intended.
what effect would the Tau Flechette discharger
attacks do to the scarabs.
But— But— I don’t LIKE Guiness! D:
Possible answers here: http://davidszondy.com/future/tesla/teslaray.htm
or maybe here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtzRAjW6KO0
🙂
Are orks immune to the ‘sucking off’ by a monolith as they use spores to reproduce? 😛
Lets just wait for an FAQ. I want to use in this my Necron force and for me, it sounds too good to be true and it best be!! lol
It’s clear the confusion comes from the last ‘underneath the line’.
If the Death Ray does what you guys think (and hope) it does then wouldn’t it read:
“…each unit underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit.”
That’s pretty clear.
The second ‘underneath the line’ just throws it into question. Does it refer to the models, or to the unit? If it’s the unit then it’s saying the same thing twice. If it’s the number of models then it’s what others seem to think, myself included.
If this is the case, then it should read something like this:
“…each unit underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit (that are directly) underneath the line.”
Either way it’s bad writing 🙂
It’s a shooting weapon so can’t pick targets, so the reference to the unit is indicated for the purpose of wound allocation. That’s how it seems to me.
I imagine the weapon fires like a high strength, focused energy beam given its stat line, the picture seems to indicate that, as does the description of being able to wipe out an armoured column if its Death Ray remains functional – otherwise it would say ‘wipe out armoured columns in a single strike’ or the like.
Imagine if it was used against 100 Ork Boyz in Apocalypse – or a company of 10 Leman Russ’s – it could potentially blow them all up even if it hits 1 tank. Isn’t there anyone at BOW who thinks it’s a tad over-powered and makes the rest of the Heavy Support section entirely pointless?
I agree it’s pretty much a one strike weapon when it comes in from Deep Strike. It is a lot of points but if it hits every model in a unit, or every model in a squadron, then I still think it can potentially win games single handed – especially if you take 3 of them. I know the line is of a random length but you’d have to be pretty unlucky to get anything below 8” and the potential acute diagonal nature of the line means it could rip straight through a bunch of units. It’ll still have the 12” range to start you off, so even if you roll three 1’s you should still hit a target unit.
I reckon you could place the second point anywhere, including within combat, so you’re guaranteed to hit your primary target if you deep strike within 12” of it. Given the lack of Anti-tank in the army list, I see it as a dedicated tank hunter first, a troop killer second.
It clearly needs to be FAQ’d and FAQ’d hard 😉
I’m going for the spanish FAQ for the deathray…
Replace the third sentence: “Each
unit (both friendly and enemy) that it is under this line,
suffer a number of hits equal to the number of thumbnails
of the unit who are under the line. “
Granted, by thumbnails, I assume it means models – that saved me a huge rage post, which I wouldn’t normally do, maybe the black rage is taking over – I can see visions of the primarch’s final battle…
I have a feeling the Death Ray will henceforth be called the “stop the game for a 2 hour argument ray”
It’s called the death ray because it makes you want to kill the player who uses the silly interpretation of the rules…
*IF* it did indeed read “Every unit (friendly or enemy) underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models underneath the line” (as you said it would if it ment the only those under the line) it still wouldn’t make sense. That reading would mean if I hit 5 model from 3 different units with one shot, every unit would take 15 hits. The reason the word *unit* is written twice is so that we know to only apply the hits from model under the line to thier own units.
It reads: “Every unit (friendly or enemy) underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit underneath the line” so that in my same example of 5 hits to each of 3 units we know to apply 5 hits to each squad as that was how many each squad was hit by.
Another arguement (look how crappy the Doomsday ark is… do you think they would give us that then another super unit like this? Nah, this dex is no Grey Knights we haven’t got anything that good.) :p
On scarabs, there’s no room for discussion on the rules, as they’re pretty clear – as you guys said the entropic strike works exactly as you described. Easily countered though – just bog the unit down or target it with instant death causing shizzle. No reanimation protocols for them.
To be fair Warren, this is not the first time GW has printed oddly written rules in their native tongue. It would also not be the first time that players gravitate toward a powerful ability only to have it FAQ’d down. The flap with the GK Dreadknight and Coteaz’ army comp rule being the last two in my mind. Doom of Malantai being the biggest in recent memory.
Most of the people are comparing it to Blood Lance and Jaws of the World Wolf, which honestly seems reasonable given the nature of “Line hits X”. And while those have powerful effects, they do not systematically stamp down entire armies. (Barring Jaws versus Necrons)
RAW cuts boths ways if you hit your own unit so the Necron player isn’t immune to their own effects here. All I will say is that I will not be surprised if it gets FAQ’d. Will be interesting for Apocalypse games though.
Until the faq comes out, i can see alot of people playing against necrons telling the necron player to “jog on” if they think the death ray rule means “if you hit one model of a unit” every model in the unit gets hit. Especially if there playing horde armies where your talking about 30-50 models per unit.
Until the faq comes out gaming clubs and tournements are not going to be pretty.
Give a thought to the refs, poor sods 🙂
Coteaz army comp? Don’t tell me they made monkey armies illegal 🙁
Warren , you should read the rules of the Death Ray like it’s readed the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioc
lol I’ll do that 😉
I don’t trust any beer that puts a peace of plastic in the bottle to keep it from turning solid.
That’s a nitrogen capsule, not a shaker like in a paint can- if you opened can of Guinness in a decompression chamber it would pour out flat like whiskey or vodka, the little widget is what makes it frothy. Though I’m not sure how that applies to Necrons…
Personally I think it is obvious that the death ray only hits models under the line.
If you consider, that a necron player deep strikes it onto the battlefield. He then shoot just 2 orks nobs of the edge of 2 nob biker squads led by 2 warbosses. Which isnt even that good of a shot. If you dont take it as only models under the line, every nob and both warbosses take a hit. You then wound and kill 7 nobs and 1 warboss. That can be easily more than 350pts which is practically double the units cost. Plus theres the other weapons and the fact that although it is unlikely to get another shot off it will still pull away a part of your opponents shooting taking it down.
Seems unlikely that this is the case.
Here is a simple fact.. for 175.. and 11frount, side and rear armour…if the “Death Ray” DOES only hit an amount of models equil to how many are under the line (as I 99% suspect it does) then this vehivle is NOT worth it and I will NEVER even buy one. As I see it the Necroms have NO good heavys now. Tomb spides are ok.. but there not heavy supports. The monolith will be DESTROYED by everything. And I cant belive they made the other vehicles all open toped skimmers.
For an army that is ment to have super fast regeneration and self repair.. I see NONE!!!! of that with any of the new vehicles!! NONE!! If they were to atlase FAQ the Doom scyth and say oh.. its ment to have quantim sheildinging.. that atleast will be something.. give it some SMALL measure of protection while it gets its deth shot off.
But as for the monolith…It states in the fluff for it that its nearly indestructable. That its self repair protocals are so advances it hardly seems to take a scratch. Then it says that not even to mention its huge pannels of armour. These huge pannes of armour give it the 14 all around.. WTF gives it regeneration. NOTHING! They left that out! And again.. I could ALMOST live with that.. but to TOP IT ALL OFF now you cant deepstrike without fear of scattering onto terrain and rolling for a misshapp.
No one is going to feild monoliths.. THE iconic model of the Necrons for fear its going to die right away or scatter onto terrain or someones moddels. Finally the nurffed the strenth from S9 to S8. OK.. so at best it can just glance landraiders..fine.. ill even buy that ..mayb.. but it still only have a range of 24″. Put all of this together…and you have a totally SHIT unit now. It is VERY dissapointing. I say make it work 250 points and do EXACTLY what it did in the old codex. It would still be a better model than it is over all now!!
Doom Scythe isn’t open topped, is afforded extra protection by the fact that it can go flat out and get a cover save and can deepstrike.
It’s basically an alpha strike vehicle, and you should always get a shot off that will commit murder to more or less any target within range even with the toned down rules that I believe it intends and states.
“Every unit(friendly or enemy) underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit underneath the line.”
It’s poor editing. I believe either the last three words can be ignored as superfluous or it should read “Every unit(friendly or enemy) underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit that are underneath the line.” That doesn’t read as clearly IMO and probably wasn’t the intent so I will go with the last three words are junk.
If the intent was to only hit the models underneath the line it could have simply read “Every model underneath the line suffers a hit.” Why not omit the word unit all together if you are working on a per model basis. As a comparison, JotWW doesn’t feature the word unit anywhere in the rule to avoid shenanigans and it has the sort of per model effect people are desperately looking for in this rule.
Meh. Maybe I’m just an idiot?
The reason it doesn’t just say the models under the line take a hit is to prevent ‘sniping’ of characters, heavy weapons, special weapons etc.
It’s pretty simple, if you read it like a normal person. Just take out the last bit and look at it for a second.
>Every unit…underneath the line
So everything that’s under the line
>suffers a number of hits
gets automatically hit by this weapon
>equal to the number of models
so X models where x equals, what?
>in that unit underneath the line.
where x = is what’s in that unit under the line.
Still not convinced, look at that last part closely:
>number of models in that unit underneath the line.
>number of models
>underneath the line.
>models
>under…line.
That Spanish FAQ posted earlier also proves my point further. Being a native Spanish speaker, I can literally translates to:
P50.- Rayo de muerte. Sustituye la tercera frase por: “Cada
unidad (tanto amiga como enemiga) que quede bajo esta línea,
sufrirá un número de impactos igual al número de miniaturas
de dicha unidad que se encuentren bajo la línea.”
P50.- Ray of Death. Substitute the third phrase for: “Each unit (friendly or foe) that is below this line, suffers a number of hits equal to the number of miniatures that the unit has under the line.”
Yeah, that’s a pretty open and shut case, I don’t see what the fuss is all about.
Also, if you guys hate the rules for something, then why don’t you just not use the models, and play with the models you like, you know, like how you’re suppose to enjoy the hobby? It’s min-max people that made me stop playing for a good year or so. Hell, I’ve played like 10 games straight without winning a single one, but I didn’t care, I had fun, I enjoyed playing a game where I got to roll dice and see all the toy army men that I converted and painted actually play a game.
on entropic strike,
does this effect last for the rest of the game?
meaning if my scarabs whare down a vehicles armour,
will it stay down?
or do i have to work it down again and again?
Yes it does, at least it should if the armor save is removed for the rest of the battle.
Although, if people are gonna be as butthurt about wording with this as they are with the Death Ray then maybe it does maybe it doesn’t, I mean it doesn’t say anything about the armor value staying that way for the rest of the game, just that it happens immediately, so the topic is technically moot as well.
But in all seriousness I’d say yes, yes it stays lower for the rest of the game…
here’s a question.
why is it the monolith now sucks while land raiders keep getting better and better?
okay now we have pyschic landraiders, dedicated transport landraiders that can deepstrike.
but the monolith can be shaken or stunned, it particle whip is weaker, and it is susseptible to lance melta rending, and monsterous creatures.
it’s another exsample of gw’s love for humans only.
while they do give xenos some cool stuff like the death ray killing whole units.(you can argue the point if you want or remove words from the rules. and i’ll use the old living metal rules, k?)
they make the only real strong vehicle in the army shit.
the res orb is now shit. 30 points for a +1 to reanimation protocols.
the phalactory is now shit. being 15 points for a single use item.
war scythes aren’t total shit but they no longer ignore invulnerable saves.
and last but not least the c’tan are now shit.
i like the fact that they are elites, but the fact that they nolonger ignore invulnerable, and they should’ve gotten a 3 up invulnerable themselves.
that’s my rant.
look just change the living metal back and i’ll be happy.
i have three monoliths and am now megus sad.
Keep in mind the overpowered monoliths were the only thing that was keeping Necrons at least slightly competitive with the old codex. My guess is you won’t need such powerful monoliths with all the new stuff like the stormlord etc. Don’t worry too much yet. Plus I think the guys at BoW hit that one on the head. Maybe the Monolith isn’t as great as it used to be, but it has different (and in my opinion much more interesting) uses now. Having a tiny squad of warriors hidden in the corner of the board, or anywhere where they can’t even be reached and killed all the way until turn 5 can be huge…. and thats just the beginning.
Believe me… with more time to figure things out, you’ll find out this codex will be much more fun than the last. Necron armies were the most boring out there… bar perhaps just a hoarde of X unit and 2 HQs… run across the board and either die or eat things up… plonk your monoliths in the middle of the table, hide your warriors and try to shoot all around… no tactics involved… no variety, nothing.
Oh.. and I forgot.. that they didnt make it so the monolith can shoot is Flux arcs and main weapon becuase its main weapon is ordinance. So even though they reduced the damage the flux arcs do from S5 to S4 defensive.. you can use them as defensive weapons becuase you cant fire them with the main weapon.
Oh.. and as you point out.. the C’tan.. they are not.. repeat NOT immune to other ctan…ie.. the Ctan blades of the drak elda will kill them. I really liked this codex when I first got my hands on it.. but the more I read it the more I disslike it. I wasnt expecting an OP army..but I wasnt expecting army wide nurfs. So they gave us new close combat units? Sure at initive 2!! And our initive 6 wraits went down to initive 2 as well. Im sure they have been working on this book for a really long time.. at least we would hope so.. but honestly it dosent show! 🙁
I feel like man crying 🙁
Or – if the ray hits 3 units, and 3 minis from each unit are under the line then each unit takes a number of hits equal to the total number of minis hit by the ray – in this example each unit would take 3+3+3=9 hits 😀
/runs for cover 🙂
Was the explanation of moving on from reserve at the beginning of the video in response to a Necron power? I didn’t hear it named ….
Its a combo of powers that stack between the C’Tan and ORKI-DAN (my pet name for the overlord) that will allow all the table to be dangerous terrain in turn one.
So we were discussing how deadly this would be in Dawn of War Turn 1
Cheers Warren 🙂
There’s one guy makes the entire board difficult terrain, so in theory you can end up with the bases not on the board etc, or immobilised vehicles off the board- skimmers would only by immobilised at the end of the move but if that’s more than 12″ and for the storm raven and Valkyrie that’s pretty much a given to be able to get all the way on the board you’re wrecked anyway, however there is some cheese to be had there, if you’ve glued the model to the stand you only need the base on the board so the tail boom can hang over the edge, but if its not glued on you’re supposed to take it off and place the model on the board, so your tail hangs off if you just squeeze the base on then fail the check and you’re destroyed anyway…
Plus… it wouldn’t be much of a ray, with a specific line being drawn if it would just kill everything the line touches… including boys standing on the other side of the board when spread out. 🙂
Be happy there isn’t another ridiculously overpowered unit out there.
PS: As for those saying the weapon costs 175 points and should be able to do more… thats a bit extreme no? When it does have other weapons, is still a vehicle etc atc. Even with a vindicator you’d have trouble saying the entire unit cost is the cost of the cannon. You can tank shock, block LOS etc. after all.
You can still potentially hit a LOT of models… straight lines hardly ever pass right between models in a unit a since its not from firer but any angle you wish, there is lots of opportunity to take out a lot. Hell I pay 75 points for TAKING AWAY one scout sergeant to get individual wound allocation and a sniper rifle (with good BS)… and you find 175 points of a well armed vehicle that can attack units in combat which almost nothing else can do a disappointment if it can’t kill the opponents hoarde army with one shot? Geez…
I think the Guiness likeness was misplaced.
Given the confusion over the rules , I would say Necrons are akin to Crippled Cock.
I love scarabs, i also love that i tend to have lots of blasts in my army.
I don’t know why so many are up in arms about Warren and Darrell’s interpretation about the deathray. The wording is crystal clear. The section on how you work out hits says “equal to the number of models in the unit underneath the line”. Is my mob of 30 Ork boys underneath the line? Yes. How many models are in the unit underneath the line? 30. So if the wounds suffered = he number of models in the unit underneath the line then that’s 30. I honestly can’t see how that can be interpreted any other way, period.
In fact, if you want to get cheesy, how do you determine a unit is under the line? Does it need to touch someone? The wording there is “”Every unit (friendly or enemy) underneath the line”, if it goes cleanly through the centre of my unit’s formation but doesn’t touch a model, isn’t the unit, not a model which is the test here, under line? I’d kill anyone that tried to pull that on me, I’m an ork player and I’d hate this rule to be right but at the end of the day you have to go with what the words say not what feels right.
My honest opinion is RAI it’s meant to be only the models under the line are disintegrated. I think they brought the word “unit” into it to stop sniping and to stop it cheesing the other way i.e. If it was each unit suffers hits = to the models under the line then if you hit 2 units, 3 models in each then each unit would take 6 hits each because there are 6 models under the line. I think it’ll be faq’d to just the models but until then Warren and Darrell are 100% correct.
The problem is how you infer the meaning from what is written. It is just as logical to argue your point (from a grammatical side) to argue the other point.
I would say that particular snippet of the weapons rules is around determining how many hits are scored. So in my mind the mention of it scoring an equal number of hits to the number of models in the unit underneath the line is intended, and indeed from a grammatical standpoint also means – the death ray causes a number of hits against each unit equal to the number of models that are underneath the line from that unit.
Which means ray goes over 3 sanguinary guard and 5 assault marines, guess what – sanguinary guard take 3 hits, assault marines take 5 hits.
I’m mainly annoyed that people are ranting about it being so clear cut one way or the other, because if it was then we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
“I’m mainly annoyed that people are ranting about it being so clear cut one way or the other, because if it was then we wouldn’t be having this discussion.”
You have nailed it right there!
This is no longer about what the rule does, its about how badly it was written in the first place, and i can guarantee you if this dex had been through a public beta this rule would have ended up written differently.
Agreed. It’s always been one of my biggest beefs with GW. If you think from the perspective of a brand new player starting with Necron it’s £35 for the brb, £20 for the codex so for £55 before you’ve bought a model I’d expect some decent quality control over the rules. Just as you’d expect a bit of qc when buying their latest rubbery mini 😉
The ideal way of writing a rule for a weapon or something like this would be step by step – literally step 1) Nominate a point within 12″ of the Doom Scythe 2) Nominate a second point 3D6″ away 3) Any unit/vehicle with a model between these points is hit by the weapon automatically. 4) Units suffer a number of hits equal to the number of models between the two points from that unit.
Also – first reply ever from Warren! I feel special and forgot for a sec what the point was that I was trying to make… When I make a wargame none of this will be a problem…
This is exactly right. Thanks Warren
Warren, Darrel. Always enjoy your joint discussion vids. I would not lose too much sleep over those that can’t BLOODY read!!!! Obviously spent too much time texting and pissing about in the classroom. Your first vid on the Deathray spelled it out very clearly in my opinion. I think the only item of contention was whether you could clobber units IN combat.
On a side note will you fine chaps re run all the Grey Knight vids?
Most should be here: http://www.beastsofwar.com/grey-knights-week/
But yes as long as we still have the vids they will be re-run 🙂
Top man Warren!
Shooty MEQ list
245 – Anrakyr the Traveller on Command barge
198 – 5 Pyrrhian Eternals Gauss Blasters; mounted in Night Scythe
198 – 5 Immortals Gauss Blasters; mounted in Night Scythe
198 – 5 Immortals Gauss Blasters; mounted in Night Scythe
198 – 5 Immortals Gauss Blasters; mounted in Night Scythe
180 – 3 Destroyers with Heavy Gauss
175 – Doom Scythe
175 – Doom Scythe
175 – Doom Scythe
1742
Slow and Purposeful
185 – Nemmesor Zahndrekh
55 – Harbinger of Destruction; Eldrtich Lance and Solar Pulse
35 – Harbinger of Storms; Voltaic Staff, lightning field
150 – Triarch Stalker; heat ray
155 – Triarch Stalker; particle shredder
155 – Triarch Stalker; particle shredder
245 – 9 warriors; dedicated Ghost Arc
245 – 9 warriors; dedicated Ghost Arc
85 – 5 Immortals; gauss blasters
85 – 5 Immortals; gauss blasters
153 – 9 Immortals; gauss blasters
200 – Monolith
1748
CC list
225 – Imotekh the Stormlord
175 – Trazyn the Infinite
40 – Harbinger of Eternity; AeonStave, Chronometron
40 – Harbinger of Eternity; AeonStave, Chronometron
40 – Harbinger of Transmogrification; Tremorstave, Seismic Crucible
40 – Harbinger of Transmogrification; Tremorstave, Seismic Crucible
90 – Necron Lord; warscythe, resurection orb, mindshackle scarabs
65 – 5 Warriors
65 – 5 Warriors
225 – 5 Lychguards; hyperphase swords and dispersion shields
200 – 5 Lychguards; warscythes
240 – C’Tan Shard; Swarm of Spirit Dust, Writhing Worldscape
145 – 3 Canoptek Wraiths; whip coils (1), transdimensional beamer (2)
45 – 3 Canoptek Scarabs swarms
115 – 2 Canoptek Spyders, 1 gloom sphere
1750
Unresistable Tide
I wrote up this list to show that not always the obvious stuff is just cheese. And that that people get caught up on the little details too much. Will go through and explain my choices.
Zahndrekh I sgreat giving great special rules and taking away enemies’. As well as allowing you to auto deep strike to counter an enemy unit.
Phaeron overlord was mainly to get the 2nd court, but also allows gives a unit he is with relentless. So that big Necron unit can move and still shoot at 24″. Also carries the Mindshacle Scarabs which give a good chance to take over your character… and not psychic so no psychic hood/runes of warding BS.
The court is pretty easy. The destruction are there for night fighting and light vehicle busting, they sit with a small unit inside a ghost arc shooting out, Eternity is there for re-rolls, and transmogrification is there for slowing down enemy advances.
Warriors are pretty basic. With their re-rolls and Ghost Ark help they will keep that main unit there topped up pretty good. As well as provide pretty deadly shooting. Granted not as good as eldar guide or other powers but saves your day from the 1 crappy roll that you wish you could roll again.
The flayed ones are there to act as a shield against any deep striking enemy unit using Zahndrekh’s phased reinforcement rules. Which you could also do with the Monolith on a more open board I suppose.
Triarch, tank hunting and making warrior shooting more accurate if neccesary.
Scarab swarm. Tank hunting and screening. Monolith Contesting or claiming objectives by phasing in troops.
Overall lacking tank killing and with few vehicles they’re a little vulnerable. Really you need 2000pts or more to make this idea work well but this would be the core of it.
Also once the Necron Spam lists (read doom scythe) reduce the MEQ spam and other spamy lists(kind of like how Eldar have risen again as a counter to GK) then a list like this will be more valuable as an all comers. Especially in a tourney.
The list:
185 – Nemmesor Zahndrekh
135 – Phaeron Overlord; Warscythe, Mindshackle Scarabs
55 – Harbinger of Destruction; Eldrtich Lance and Solar Pulse
40 – Harbinger of Eternity; AeonStave, Chronometron
40 – Harbinger of Transmogrification; Tremorstave, Seismic Crucible
55 – Harbinger of Destruction; Eldrtich Lance and Solar Pulse
40 – Harbinger of Eternity; AeonStave, Chronometron
40 – Harbinger of Transmogrification; Tremorstave, Seismic Crucible
260 – 20 warriors
180 – 5 warriors; dedicated Ghost Arc
180 – 5 warriors; dedicated Ghost Arc
65 – 5 Flayed ones
150 – Triarch Stalker
60 – 4x Scarab Swarm
200 – Monolith
1750
sorry pasted and cut too much, 🙁
You forget that necron vehicles have quantum shielding. It’s on the same page as entriopic strike, The vehicle gets 2+ on front and side armor. This means that the monolith is armor 16 on front and side 😀
We wish lol
As long as the 1st target isnt part of that combat you can “accidently” hit that combat.
“Apart from sucking guys off, it does nothing” – Darrell, around 9:30
*blinks*
Idiots are like arseholes….there are too many out there!!
But you need them, otherwise there would be a lot of dead people…
Nope they would turn into wargamers, and just talk shite all day 😉
I am so glad I switched over to Privateer Press…
This whole game system is light years into the realm of ridiculous, and they even charge more on a annual basis now and people still buy it. I mean people stop and read this comment page in its entirety
Anyone ever heard the saying “In the spirit of the game?”
Isn’t that Sep Blatters excuse for no goal line technology?
If I knew what Sep Blatters was, I would answer that for you.
He’s the President of FIFA, it was a poor attempt at humour that has apparently gone wrong.
ok can some one explain why many of the HQ units have both “reanimation protocols” and “ever-living” ? wouldn’t ever-living be enough since it does the same as “R.A.P.”
Everliving gives them the ability to reanimate on their own
The Codex in spanish has already been FAQ’d and they have changed the death ray to hitting models only under the line… each unit suffers a number of wounds equal to the number of models the unit has underneath the line.
Here it is for those who can read spanish.
P50.- Rayo de muerte. Sustituye la tercera frase por: “Cada unidad (tanto amiga como enemiga) que quede bajo esta línea, sufrirá un número de impactos igual al número de miniaturas de dicha unidad que se encuentren bajo la línea.”
and here is the link to the whole FAQ.
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2010238a_Necrones_0.0_a_Noviembre_2011.pdf
At first I wondered why a company in England would get FAQs out in any language but English first, but then I realised, there must have been a translator paid to check google or bablefish’s results before they went to print and since there are phrases that have different meaning when given direct translation someone must have asked “is this X or Y”, so i propose a solution to GW: Hire an English translator for Matt Ward.
Courtesy of Google Translate: Replace the third sentence: “Each unit (both friendly and enemy) that it is under this line, suffer a number of hits equal to the number of miniatures of the unit who are under the line. ”
Crystal clear =)
I think @warzan said it in another thread or even on another page here, but when a correction in Spanish run through an internet translator makes more sense and is than the original English version, something has gone very wrong.
Make of this what you will but I just got back from my local GW store where the guy working there says he spoke to his friend in the studio, who was unsure why there is so much confusion. Apparently the rule works exactly like it sounds, and exactly how the BoW guys have explained it. ie – Each unit touched by the line gets hit by the amount of models currently in their unit.
Like others have said, this does make some sense considering its frailty, random range and point cost.
I’d much rather it work as most are arguing for, and the cost of the unit be reduced. But hey.
My mate then made the good point that if this rule is as nasty as the GW guy claims, this would be very nasty against tank squadrons, if just one was touched. Ouch.
Okay I just got off the phone with Games Workshop customer service and the correct use of the Death Ray is if you go over X models in the unit you get X number of hits against the unit. So if the line goes over 2 Ork Boyz in a unit of 30 you will only get 2 hits against them not 30.
Haha brilliant, two posts one after the other with GW opinions. Just back from GW store, with studio connection, “It works like Beasts of War said”. Just back from GW customer service “It’s not how Beasts of War say, it’s the number of models”. Why couldn’t they FAQ it as fast as GW Spain? Or, better still, write it properly in the first place.
wow, so exactly how many horde players are typing on this page?
is it most of the people raging about the death ray because they play horde?
people it 175 points for an 11 armor?
or is it the fact that you space marine players hate the fact that another army has a really good killy gun.
must burn you lads up.
anyways, i have at least 8 different armies lost my good living metal.
let me have this good gun that might get a shot off and then die horribly.
or let me use my old living metal and i’ll shirk this gun and use the night scythe.
my rant is done.
ps. i hate the new living metal, like most of the rest of this codex.
Darren’s description at 9:34 concerning the rules surrounding the Monolith weapons “…apart from sucking guys off, it does nothing…”
Brilliant 😀