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Cult Of Games XLBS: I Need My Wargaming Heroes To Feel Heroic!
March 17, 2024 by brennon
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Happy Sunday CoGs, OTTers and Cultists! Back in my day, we were Backstagers…. Just sayin’ is all.
Special characters in games depend on the setting. If Girlyman shows up in every battle you kind of have to wonder why he doesn’t have somewhere better to be? The other issue is his strategic skills vs tactical skills. He’s supposedly a genius so when you fail to live up his abilities….. especially when he gets out manouvered/fought by some ‘no-name’ character. As for historical battles, as soon as you don’t do the same thing as the generals did in history, is it still historical? If I’m Darrius III and the Perians at the battle of Issus, why would I do what Darius did, knowing that he lost?
I love ACW in ‘Epic’ scales. 6mm seems a great scale to do it.
Some interesting ideas there, especially on the Historical side of things
Happy Sunday to one and all. Nice to see Ben at OTT HQ. Great show as always.
Popped in to say hello and might have ended up filming a fair few things…
On painting 6mm ACW…..
I tend to use a black matt undercoat, and then paint “patches” of different colours leaving the black showing at the edges of each colour. It’s a very forgiving technique, just a bit fiddly to do. Also with the colour choices, I tend to go with a more vibrant flat colour to paint 6mm, if you start using washes on 6mm figures you’ll end up with it looking like a muddy mess with no definition (even from 4 feet away). Just a single coat, no contrast, no dry brushing, just paint in that “block” of colour (I like to use the Humbrol Acrylics for 6mm, as it’s got a high pigmentation and it’s also significantly cheaper than most other acrylics. The colours all tend to be “military”, but that’s fine as we’re painting military figures).
Here’s a “How To” direct from Baccus….
https://www.baccus6mm.com/howtoguides/HOWTOPaint6mmfigures/
I really enjoy the historicals side of the hobby, and I’ve always felt the BEST games are done by “re-fighting” an historical battle using the OOBs (Order Of Battle) which are basically an army list for each side with what was there on the day. The battlefield is usually built up using a map of the battle (along with the initial deployment), and then everything else is one ginormous “What if” where your choices (and dice rolls) along with the tactics used dictate how the game unfolds.
There’s no “army list building, nor trying to get an “alpha strike” with certain units (that’s another style of gaming), it’s just doing some research on the internets (or you can just buy a book of historical scenarios to save you the effort, although there IS a lot available for free if you search hard enough).
Good luck with your 6mm project, looking forwards to hear how things go 🙂
With the Confederates, I can only think of two Regts that had both grey “coats” and trousers. The majority that were issued with the grey coat, tended to be issued with light blue trousers (same colour as the Union troops) although that was really in the first year of the war. For the Confederates later on as the war progressed they were mostly wearing “Butternut” (or a range of browns) in the field. A mix of both State issued items along with items from home (or scavenged from the battlefield), they tended to look a bit “ragged” compared to the nicely uniformed Union boys 🙂
Broad brimmed “Cowboy” Hats wouldn’t be grey, as these were usually in the form of a grey Kepi (if available), but most troops just used their own hat from home (so look for browns and black for the majority).
On basing with 6mm, just go with a painted fine sand (not the stuff off the beach), if you start adding “grass” and tufts you’ll soon not be able to see the figures. Buy some of the Aquarium sand (not the cheapest, but it’s easy to get hold off from the high street and thus no postage to pay).
Will make sure Gerry and Shay see this!
Well my old Mate (Yarkshire Gamer), also did a painting guide for doing 6mm ACW (although these were Adler minis with the BIG ‘eads).
https://yarkshiregamer.blogspot.com/2015/11/6mm-adler-acw-confederate-infantry-from.html
Along with some Battle Reports (lots of eye candy to provide the inspiration)
https://yarkshiregamer.blogspot.com/search/label/6mm%20ACW (don’t forget to click the blue “older posts” link when you get near to the bottom of the page…there’s LOADS of stuff here).
For the gun barrels, DON’T use silver (use a gun metal paint colour instead, plus the darker hue tends to hide any wiggly lines 🙂 ). With the “patch painting” do the smallest areas first, as this will give you chance to correct any mistakes by reapplying the matt black paint to areas where you might apply colour where you don’t want it). Then work your way up to doing the largest areas last (like the coat and trousers).
On Irish Units, well the Union side has a whole BRIGADE of them
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Brigade_(Union_Army)
They were lead by by Thomas Meagher, who’s life was certainly “eventful” (almost like something out of a “Boys Own” comic, or perhaps more like an Irish “Lord Flashman”….he was certainly a larger than life character).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Francis_Meagher
On the Confederate side of things there were two or three regiments, the “Charleston Irish Volunteers” (early war), 24th Georgia Volunteer Infantry, and the “10th Tennessee Infantry Regiment”. Unlike the Union Irish Brigade however they didn’t have any special uniforms or flags denoting their Irish origins.
Reading into the history (or “Lore” as it’s known for sci-fi and fantasy games) can really bring those units to life for the modern gamer. Knowing what the did and didn’t achieve on the battlefield can really enthuse the gamer to have favourite units or commanders.
On your point on “Heroes” in games, with historical games we’re really looking at Generals and Brigade Commanders on that front. They didn’t usually “lead from the front”, as this would get them shot quick sharpish. But some commanders were loved by their men (and inspired to go that extra mile), while some were loathed by their men (resulting in units being “slow” to obey orders as they didn’t trust their commander on the battle field). The overall morale of the units (and even the army) was certainly linked into the commanders in the field (so they DO have an effect on the tabletop besides just issuing orders). And the death (or wounding) of a commander can also have a BIG effect on the battle.
I think Halfords is great as a primer but maybe a little dark for 6mm.i still. Use the primer but maybe put a lighter grey on top with occasional items of clothing in butternut/light brown
Yup, you might get away with it if painting a larger scale but 6mm needs a higher contrast to stand out on the table. Although I do use Halfords Matt Black as a undercoat.
Happy Sunday!
And saying that I’m going to start by complaining:
Complaint number 1: Ben is in Coleraine but we didn’t get a studio Weekender or XLBS. I would have been okay with shitty production value if the set up was the issue. I’m really looking forward to the content filmed though.
Complaint number 2: Ben tried to shoot a medic. Acceptable in WW2 games only when playing a force that historically did commit such war crimes, e.g. the Japanese or SS.
End complaints.
Big heroes in games. Very much a yes for me. In sci-fi / fantasy, I love there’s epic characters that can turn the tide. Obviously not so that it breaks the game or go against the expectations of the both players. Historically, having them represented on the battlefield where possible and when playing a historical scenario. Say Napoleonics, having the (in)famous generals and marshals lead the forces. You can also play to their style, like the bold cavalry charges of Marshal Ney.
I was there to film stuff but unfortunately on the Weekender side of things we had people off, some people ill and other bits and pieces we needed to crack on with. Hopefully you enjoy the stuff we filmed though over the next few weeks.
…and yes, I was a very bad man for shooting that Medic. Well, failing too. Glad that you’re on my side when it comes to those big heroes for Sci-Fi and Fantasy!
Happy Sunday! Great show, I really enjoyed the way Ben moderated the conversation, it was good to hear Justin and Shay’s views.
When I think of heroes, what makes them a hero is the ‘history’ they bring with them to the table. Whether that be the lore in fantasy or sci-fi or past deeds in historical. None of that necessarily NEEDS to have special rules in game, it’s just cool to play with these heroes, but it’s nice when it does and does it well. Impact of heroes on a game obviously varies massively depending on game type. Your military general may be the baddest fighter on the field, but if command of your army relies on him then you are never going to throw him into combat unless it’s a last resort. But in say 40K where there is much less impact of the hero on your overall army then why wouldn’t you get them doing what they do best and scything through stuff? You build your tactics around that knowing your opponent will need to throw everything at them, allowing your other units to claim objectives. Overall, I like to have heroes in games, they make things more flavourful as Justin said.
I have spent the last few days coming up with more fun ideas for my heroes and adding in that flavour Justin mentioned. Hopefully, it should lead to some neat narrative moments.
Happy Sunday XLBSers OTTers and COGz.
An Justin is Warren’s Minion ? ?
Get a bag of Gray wool an go to a Old people’s home and ask if they can knit you a armour suit Ben ??
But Gerry is a time Lord that’s why he has so many game’s I a small house it’s a Tardis???
Indio Montoya for the win.
Inigo?
Happy Sunday!
00:00 Epic heroes? So.. very very tiny 6mm?
00:14 Firing only on three cylinders? XD
00:21 BACKSTAGERS!
02:15 Future Gerry games? oO
03:05 Pet Shay? This episode is… weird.
04:14 Street sharing
06:15 Fleeeeeeeeeeeegs
09:00 Cosplay Shay?
11:05 Full Plate Bus Drive… sounds like a RPG
12:30 HOLD ON! Older than Shay made in 2001… FLOCK I’m old
15:15 leader suck? oh noes!
17:25 “waiting on Gerry” – he’ll overtake you without flinching *g*
25:15 MOAR DAKKA IS BEST DAKKA!
35:00 powergaaaames
47:00 Burninator apprentice
48:20 Swish!
49:50 Khaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan! (missing)
51:35 slipped and fell onto the naked lady
52:57 Gunpla button? What a time to be alive!
56:50 Flip ’em!
57:40 Welcome to “Ben breaks things”
1:01:00 cotton candy
1:04:50 BACKSTAGERS
Happy paddyday!
Good show guy’s strange not seeing some Johnston lunacy on this one
Happy Sunday.
Wow, thanks for the golden button, and a big congratulations to the other winners.
Happy Sunday
A great show. On the 6mm ACW great to see Shay getting on to painting them. Using a grey primer works for the Confederates. Other options Butternuts and browns and dark greys if you want to go quirky there are Zourves but they only appear early in the war.
On heroes… In fantasyland make your own up much ore fun.
In historical If you are doing a something based upon a real event then use the historical individuals.
If your doing historical fantasy you can do both buses real characters and made up, for example in barons war you are at a skirmish level so it’s fun to make up your own characters.
I think that’s a good point on the Historical Fantasy with games like The Barons’ War. I really like those types of games where you can start to build up your own characters and their heroic adventures.
If the heroes are (too) powerfull … then why bother with the rest of the army at all?
It also feels weird / inappropiate to have one of the top dogs in a small skirmish game, unless it’s some sort of desperate last stand of their HQ.
I kind of wish you could create/grow your own hero in these types of games.
Why should GW have all the fun in writing lore (and then using none of it in stats) when you could build your own ?
Remember when WHFB had generic hero profiles?
Another thing is that with named heroes it becomes impossible to create your own space marine faction.
Why bother with [your name here] chapter of spacemarines when you can’t have Hero X with all those neat superpowers ?
I like the idea of heroes, but in PvP two mechanical issues arise:
* How do you balance heroes vs. minions?
* What if you lose your hero and your opponent still has theirs?
These aren’t issues in solo and coop miniature skirmish games (or RPG’s, for that matter), such as Frostgrave, because the opponent doesn’t have an “equal” army.
Good show guys.
Lots of really valid points there concerning characters in games. For me, it comes down to the game and setting.
For Historical games, like Shay, I like to have named characters who were there in the historical battle as it does feel like it adds a ‘level of authenticity’. Still, for those games, the characters have more command-and-control elements,
I do find that named characters in historical games depend on the character and the size of the battle. I can imagine refighting Waterloo with the likes of Napoleon, but I can’t imagine Napoleon being involved in
a small skirmish with a dozen figures.
However, I find the issue with characters falls into problems in fantasy and science fiction gaming.
Fantasy and fictional characters tend to have a lot of hype behind them which builds them up to heroic proportions which can never really be matched on the tabletop. In 40K, Primarchs are virtual gods in the fiction and as such should be leading huge armies with thousands of troops and hundreds of tanks, not 2 dozen infantry on some backwater planet in what is nothing more than a small skirmish. For those games let the actual game create the heroes, just like the medic who survives against the odds to cross the entire battlefield. In these relatively small skirmishes that we take to the tabletop, there would be lots of heroic deeds performed by normal troops. Not every game needs to have some grand heroic leader at the front.
Then you also have situations where these grand heroes are used, because of their stats, but are not really played in the spirit of the character. I can still remember countless games of Warhammer where Greater Daemons of Khorne would be jumping from cover to cover to get close to the enemy. Doesn’t really fit the image of a great Firey Deamon born for slaughter, does it?
However, some games seem to manage heroes pretty well, Lord of the Rings seems to do a pretty good job as do plenty of actual ‘Skirmish Games’ where the heroes are unnamed and created by the players themselves, but these tend not to be the superhuman in their stories but much more grounded in their creation and as a result, much more heroic.
Of course, these are just my views and in no way are they correct.
Ultimately, everyone should play however it makes them happy. Everyone gets enjoyment from different aspects. Some people like to create killer lists and get the most out of every point spent, some people like to go fluffier, and some like to do historical right down to actual units in actual battles. The only time you’re doing it wrong is when you are not having fun.
Overpowered characters work well in games like Malifaux or MCP where the game is like a bunch of elites versus elites.
High powered characters in any game that uses units of average Joes is a bigger problem as if you don’t design the game well the rank and file choices become irrelevant and players seek to minimise their points investment in these troops.
Thanks for the golden button! I knew that fancy green background I used for the Borg figures would pay off…
Looks like the big industrial cutting table’s Warren you should try looking for windowsill’s for more hard wood choices in shop’s.