July 6, 2012 by darrell
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With the new rule book in hand Warren and Darrell have a look at who has become friends and will fight beside each other, but not all friends are equal and some you just don't trust the guys have a look at how its going to change your game.
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@Darrel – How thinking about a combined force of Mordrak (Your fav) and a deathwing attack 😉
I was thinking
Modrak
Belial with a termie squad and ravewning (fast support with anti armour and teleport homer)
Then just some normal GK units as normal like rifle dreads, strike squads, termie’s, ravens etc….
12 terminators on turn one without scatter (ravenwing supporting deathwing) or……..GK being the allies and more deathwing as the primary army.
🙂
I don’t understand why Tyranids couldn’t have allies; didn’t they use to have Genestealer cults and brood brothers in WH40K 2nd edition?
Hopefully we’ll see a WD mini list, but along with the other changes maybe when they did allies they had just gotten into the habit of shafting the nids and figured “why stop now?”
Only idea I have on this is GW hates Tyranids – fluff wise its justifable, unlike some of the alliances included.
Clearly not a balance issue as there are more unbalanced things in the book.
nids do not have to complain, charge ranges are better for them -> they have fleet (on the models that you want in cls cmb, the ones that don’t you wouldn’t normaly have assaulted any way) , for armor pen-> the trygon has 4 S10 ap 2 attacks with re-roll to hit and re-roll to pen, also for killing infantery he has poisond 4+ which is for models of T4 or less 2+ with a reroll only thing what they can’t really do is bringing down fliers but that is why they can now take hive tyrand with wings S6… Read more »
Nids got worse for assault, overwatch means we get shot before combat. And random charges actually got worse for us. 5th ed. meant you had 6″ movement D6 fleet 6″ charge, so 12″+D6. Now its 6″+2D6. Same max distance with alot more range to get a lower result. If I’m honest i understand why tyranids don’t have allies, the thing i would have done to balance this were to give tyranids allies with tyranids, essentially giving them the extra slot everyone else gets in the force org. chart. Don’t get me wrong, tyranids arn’t dead, just handicapped compared to other… Read more »
@roguestar Our thoughts were that the Tyranid reliance on synapse makes them too difficult to play as allies.
Allan enemy has to do is target your synapse creatures and the army starts to fall apart. This is easier in the smaller sized ally force that may have fewer of them.
It’s the problem with the Tyranid army book, but simply focused into a smaller force.
Actually you can have more than 1 allied detachment.
“your army can include one allied detachment for each primary detachment in your army” meaning if you have more than 2000 points you can have 2 secondary detachments. But you can only have 1 ally below 2000 points.
That is my interpretation.
yeah, you could have more than 1 allied detachment as long as you have more than 1 primary detachment, but the 2nd primary det. has to take the same allied codex as the 1st ally
Idea of being able to take allies is interesting addition. This defenetly gives some extra options and allows wider selection that is needed with some armies like Tau that die fast in close combat without selection of specialiced units since 40k is so close combat heavy game.
I shall sign that petition Warren
I’m thinking tau with Grey Knights so I can use a Gundam as a Dreadknight…
Funny! I was also thinking that Gundam models would make wonderful Tau «super heavy battle suit».
😉
Or a Titan ;D
I think it’s going to make for some very interesting and fun games as we not only have an increased amount of scenarios but now a far greater pool of armies that we could face or field ourselves.
It will good a easy route into starting a new army by slowly introducing units with your existing one.
Apart from nid players you won’t have to listen to people moaning when their army has been nerfed etc as they should now be able to do something about it, though thinking about it they’ll still gripe :-).
ahem… Tervigons…
After I finished my Tau Farsight Enclave army, i started with something else – I take Tzeenthian list from Chaos Space Marine Codex (I love Thousand Sons fluff) and added for that some Tzeenth deamons – using rules for standard deamons form CSM codex. The number of deamons grow in numbers – so I could field them as an army from Chaos Deamons Codex – these are all Tzeenth models still, but if I think about allies now, it’s suddenly cheese hunting as for example Fateweaver as an ally for Thousand Sons – and you finish in all 4+inv re-rollable… Read more »
concerning the GW marketing …I lately came to a nice conclusion ( I know most will not agree on that ^^ ) it all is point of view depending …what actually came to my mind is that this ally posibility actually is an opportunity to buy LESS modells then before what I mean is …I am a HUGE fan of the Space-Orc-Modells ..its ike every single modell was designed to be an independant character they are just so full of life and character, they are literally oozing character …. BUT I am more into the background of Dark Eldar as… Read more »
That’s the orky spirit, dude!
😉
That doesn’t sound like buying fewer units/models as much as it does a six-of-one/half-dozen-of-the-other situation. So yes, now you don’t have to buy as many Dark Eldar as you did before, but then you say you are going to buddy them up with Orks, which means you are buying Orks to replace the Dark Eldar, thus you are still paying at least as much money as normal, or at least in the ballpark. You definitely aren’t curbing your spending in any significant way (unless by coincidence you happen to already own all the best models for allying with your existing… Read more »
First of all I never said that GW would think about it this way, of course for them it might quite well be just another opportunity to make more money, but I said FOR ME its that way. And then again youre wrong I will spend MUCH less money then before, because – as I said – beforehand I would have to buy two full armies of 2000pts each to play with them (and have a relatively fun sized game). Now I need to buy one COMBINED army of 2000pts to have the same amount of fun to play …thats… Read more »
Orc Stompa = Deff Dread ( sorry for taht fault, I am not familiar with all the english names of the modells ^^ )
So you’ll never add to either of these armies? Sure the initial purchase is cheap but rarely do people only stick with the first 2,000 points because opponents learn how to counter it and the army loses playability. One of the best things GW has going for it is that this is a game played by relativey intelligent people for the most part. Most fancy themselves as table top generals and as such learn their opponents armies as well as theirs. Without new additions and differing lists you’ll get a few weeks (if that, depending on how well it actually… Read more »
as unbelievably as this might sound for someone like you but yes I wouldnt add much more ^^ ..first of all I simply dont have the money to do so ( which is why I made the comment I made in the first place ..because spending some 480€ over the course of some years is ok for me but more then double the amount of money is not ) + I am not interested if they figure out how to beat this army ^^ winning never was the idea behind that (as I myself stated clearly those armies arent very… Read more »
or ( concerning the competitive part ) a combination of Eldar+Dark Eldar and lots of jetbikes + Council of Seers+ DE Lords, as venoms arent that good anymore due to HP…
Until you realize that your DE detachment is well on it’s way to becoming a full army… and you decide to add to it, and eventually end up with two armies anyway.
this gives me an excuse to play the few IG models i have along side my marines, until i’ve got enough to make them a full army in their own right.
I’m not sure what you mean about someone like me, but if that means someone who buys additional pieces for their army and tries different things then I guess we are different. You should create a thread so you can report on the success of a static 2k list. I am interested in doing a couple armies but I truly can’t see the enjoyment of never adding to it.
I have two proper collections of 40k minis, not incuding random stuff I just buy to paint.. Blood Angels and Imperial Guard. I’ve also recently bought a couple of boxes of mantic corporation guys that I really like. I can now field all of them in one army . Thats good. Tactically , its probably not that much use to be honest, tanks will die fast in this edition (although I think they will keep firing to the bitter end this time, as opposed to sitting around forever with no guns in 5th), and with the new rage rules, my… Read more »
Right on,
My LGS stocks mantic love the orks as well
and I agree w/ blood angels
I suspect HQ’s that make elites troops will prove quite popular but i think I would take the giant meatshield option………troops win prizes
I love the idea of the Allies rules, though I do agree the table is god awful ugly. I also find it funny I get along better with Grey Knights than I do Dark Eldar with my Necron army. In my circle of friends I am not playing competitive lists, My HQ is and always will be Trazyn the Infinite, so I play very Fluffy armies. With the New Allies rules I can craft my own little narative where Trazyn and his forces hang around or trail Ahriman and the few Sons still loyal to him. (Granted, I would be… Read more »
Nurgle themed chaos space marines, with daemon allies consisting of epidemus one sqaud of plague bearers and a daemon prince with wings.
pretty powerful once it gets going.
Nurgle bikes are going to pretty damn powerful under the new rules
I totally want to do an army of cyborks that use Necron bits for their cyborkyness because their warboss has a deal with a Necron overlord to take any of the leftover Necrons that don’t get back up, and run a small detachment of those Necrons with the army.
Allies are agreat addition, so much fluff revolves around it and counts as opportunities are fantastic. I was actually chatting to a GW staffer today about 6th ed armies, saying word bearers where possible as I could get my deamons back in properly then mentioned gaurd – and he said well why not do traitor gaurd they fit really well with Word Bearers. Really got me thinking about the options this opens up. Interesting than Warren talked about playing allies v competive players as I really think this could be open to some massive abuse, which highlights my big problem… Read more »
Shrike + Imperial Guard. Infiltrate a fully kitted out 50man infantry blob and proceed to FRFSRF the hell out of everything lol
Now idea what that means but infiltrators can’t assault first turn :(…
However it would be fun to have the giant blob rush forward, conscripts would be awesome too 🙂
*No
Darrell, you do know a unit can only hold a single objective now? The big guardsman blob can’t hold three objectives!
Anyway, my allied unit of choice is a blood angels reclusiarch with death company. Reroll hits and wounds. Rage is actually a rule worth having now!
The Allies will be great for my Inquisitorial Guard Army, and for my modelling project I had in mind before I read the allies rule, which was to create some Eldar Renegade Pirates for my Inquisitor’s henchmen warband. For me it allows me to create all kinds of minis and to explore ideas in 40K even more. And buy what I want for my army too. The narrative and modelling possibilities are endless, woohoo! 🙂
For me it doesn’t make much sence to look for Elite, Assault or Support options. If you are looking for good uses of allies, I think the key is to check the HQs and Troop choices of your battle brothers. If they can do any task cheaper or better that is done by a codex unit in your army by now, it is wortth a closer look. For my Imperial Guard army, all those psycher-HQs that can choose divination-powers looks interesting. They can turn a stationary 50-men guard squad behind an aegis line to a solid tarpit. As a bonus,… Read more »
I’m loving my aliies, i’ve gone for the Tau – Space Marine combo. (though lore wise I think it would make more sense if it was IG and Tau being battle brothers)
I have an Ironclad Dreadnought protecting my Firewarriors, Tau with an Ironclad! its like my greatest dreams realised.
I am with Darrel I love fluff and cinematic gaming, sadly the vast majority of people in my area are hardcore competitive must win players. So not much fun for my gaming styles. Allies fluff wise just call out for Chaos Marines and Chaos Demons.
Warren not Darrel. doh!
so chaos space marines with chaos deamons?
im seeing 3 deamon princes and 1 grater deamons and a summoned grater deamon hear lol!
I really like the idea behind this rule. Back in 5th edition (not so long ago), I decided to build my own game table. I also decided that it would tell a story of its own. The game table would represent the last defenses of a planetary defense army (guards) fighting a huge ork invasion (my two armies). I also thought it would be appropriate to have a small contingent of Space Marines answering the poor guards’ distress call through the immaterium so, I started collecting a small Space Marines force to add to my guards when playing Apocalypse. Now,… Read more »
Good stuff we’ll be able to field forces from the pages of Black Library
im loving the allies rules as i have so many small armys dotted about because there are so many darn cool models out there now that i can shove them together makes it infinitely better. last night i took a tau/necron allied army of 1500 pts (tau 1000, necrons 500) and it worked really well. it just gave my tau a reanimation protocol wall of awesome. it gave me so much time to mow down tanks and troops with my fire warriors and broadsides.