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Weekender XLBS: Dragons & Wild Warhammer Fantasy Theories!
December 14, 2014 by dracs
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Happy Sunday!
op over detail
Happy Justin in control day!
Ooooo look, the tank @warzan got to before me. Git 😉
So what scale would Justin’s worms be, and could he use them in Dropzone? Obviously, after a quick rinse and suitable paintjob.
Happy sunday – I’d suggest ‘Ground up’
Sam, I saw that. I can always send you a copy. Justin nice job hosting. Lloyd love the interactions with everyone very casual. John could call his new show bit by bit or iron construct. Great show you guys
great show long live Justin in charge
Loving the beard!
I saw that book sneak into your jacket, Sam!
Johns series should be called ‘ Minis – From Box to Table’
Or maybe just ‘John Builds…’
My sources tell me that a new Necron codex is imminent.
On free rules, and was touched on during the discussion, free online rules work because they entice players into the game. Most rulebooks these days are a serious investment and people are reluctant to drop £25-50 on a book for a game they might not like. If they try and the free rules and like them, then they’ll probably buy the actual book. For companies who sell minis, the rules essentially exist only to facilitate that, so giving them away for free makes a lot of sense, but even in the case of D&D, most people who try the free rules (or the cheap starter box) will buy the PHB, DMG, and MM if they start playing. The boardgame Ticket to Ride, which is a massively successful, took off because Days of Wonder gave away a free online version of the full game. Once people could try it, they wanted to buy it.
Yup this was pretty much what I was going to post on the free rules topic, there are plenty of games I now play I wouldn’t have even considered without having a look at the free rules. For example, Kings of War. I do like the Mantic thing of making a condensed rule book free online and a free physical copy availible with purchases of other things as it cuts down the flicking through rule books when playing. Every game I ever got into via free rules I always wind up buying a physical version of anyway because I much prefer physically referencing something. I do think more companies should consider producing at least a basic version of the rules in pdf format if they want to encourage the growth of their game system.
what looks like new warriors and a new overlord have already been leaked :
https://www.facebook.com/ForgeTheNarrative/photos/a.162292320628211.1073741829.123306367860140/303104126547029/?type=1&theater
Of course they could still be conversions, so don’t get too excited.
The mentions of Blood Angels and Necrons working together matches what I’ve heard. Like I said above, I hear that the Necron codex will be here very soon.
Although I’m certain that the Necron codex is on the way, I think the photo is actually of the second part of the Blood Angels / tyranids / Necron campaign series, ‘Shield of Baal’.
The info on the preorders for the product make clear that the Mephrit Dynasty is the necron contribution, and it would mirror what happened with the Imperial/Ork campaign, where the Space Wolves joined in at the end. And of course, had their own codex come out at around the same time.
I want to see John paint the Clockwork dragon from reaper……….lots of rust and oil, what about a cammo dragon?
Ooooh that sounds like fun! I have looked at the model ages ago and loved it!
How about “John’s got the metal” for the new show?
There may be one or two people who haven’t previously seen me talking about a WFB skirmish game so I’ll take the opportunity to make all the same points again lol. If I were in charge of making it, I’d do at as a skirmish game of 25-50 minis on the table for a battle, but these can be drawn from a pool of a 100 of more that give a lot of choice as to how the force will play on the table. It makes the game accessible whilst still incentivising sales. @dignity, does the lack of mass battles mean you don’t feel like Warmachine works as a fantasy game?
Isn’t concept design the domain of Jes Goodwin? Hopefully he’s getting help rather than replaced…
What’s the chances of John trying to Steam punk the Wyrmgear, Clockwork Dragon?
http://miniature-heroes.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=26973
I’m a backstager for about a year now and I always watch the weekender and weekender xlbs on monday or tuesday evening. For the first time I find the time to sit here on sunday morning in my PJs, with my breakfast bowl in my lap, some steaming earl grey next to me and will now watch the xlbs. And it already feels awesome.
Happy sunday everybody!
Just reached the bit about naming Johns new show and what to put in it. I think some models you don’t see so much off would be great in the show. Just like the FW kit you are showing off. For naming how about: Jonnomag. Which would be Johns Manufacturing AG or Johns Maschinenbau AG (in comparisson to Hannomag).
Cheers Justin, nice work.
John’s show… how about “Bits to Badass” or “A Project of Parts” (meh…)
Was just thinking Skirmish Warhammer would just be fantasy 40K. Memory tells me there were actual skirmish rules in the back of one of the previous edition rulebooks, or did I just make that up?
Skirmish rules, and scenarios, were in the back of the 5th edition (I think it was), and are also somewhere on the GW website. I think they have over 50 skirmish scenarios up.
I would actually love to see a video with Loyd flipping trough the monster manual(s).
Or at least have the guys sitting and discussing their favorite monsters and ideas they get with the different beasties.
I have all of the 3.5 monster manuals myself and They are excellent bathroom, or as mentioned, coffee table books
How about Heavy Metal Workshop for John’s show?
From Box to Beyond…
Agree with Justin
Start with quick start rules and build up.
Better still Infinity Ice Storm and Dystopean Wars build up rule sets by scenarios.
I don’t play WFB, the main reason being the high cost of rules and army books meaning you have to spend around £50-60 on books before you even buy any minis, but if I was a WFB player then I think I would be annoyed at the possibility of going skirmish unless it was an alternative rules set, like dust tactics and battlefield. That would mean all these big monsters and end time books that are being released just now may become obsolete as you wouldn’t be able to use them in a smaller skirmish game.
IMHO GW should bring back the Specialist games range for fantasy and 40k, and give them the same support they give the main games. Hopefully that’s what Mr Hewitt is doing over there just now!
Oh and Johns show should be called ‘Going over the top’.
John – how about ‘Machines to Extremes’
Heh, GF9.. taking foot on rock to the next level with *feet* on rock 😀
As for the free rules I feel like they are a temporary solution for most of us. The chances are, if we are drawn to a particular game and thus the free set of rules on offer, we already know enough about the fluff, factions or aesthetic from the company website or articles / news posts to be able to ‘make do’ with the free rules for a couple of games. That keeps us interested long enough to pick up some models and hopefully we then progress on to the full set of rules soon after.
The two main exceptions I can think of – both equally valid – are the gamer on a very tight budget and the competitive gamer who doesn’t care about the fluff, and simply wants to be able to jump in and compete in the game the local group are playing.
Hi guys,
just to comment on Lord of the Rings game, LotR is skirmish and War of the Ring is mass battle with movement trays. WotR came in 2008, I guess at that stage GW thought that LotR was widespread enough to upscale it. Don’t know if WotR is still sold, though.
It was more the opposite. LotR sales had declined so much that WotR was designed to encourage the people still buying to buy more. I think it was pulled when the Hobbit rulebook was released.
I think the problem with LoTR was that they ran out of new models to introduce and sell. The IP limits what they can produce to tempt players, unlike WFB where they can add expensive things to buy with every codex update.
The biggest problem was the demand was tied to the movies. Once the movies stopped, the demand steadily declined.
Nice show boys, happy Sunday!
Like the idea of free rules. Especially when you compare it to 40K printing more and more hard back books, of which you need to by 2 or 3 minimum to get a good army running. Which cost a fortune.
What I would like to see out of Jon’s new series:
How to break down dust tactics videos for painting and conversion. I haven’t seen any tutorials on how to break down the preassembled walkers to make painting them easier. I also have seen conversions but not too many instructions on how to break them down. I have an SSU Karl Marx that I would happily donate to the cause of making this happen. Plus if Jon did one for the Allied Pounder, the Axis Ludwig, and one of the KV-47 walkers for the SSU it would cover almost all of the walkers in the Dust universe. I wouldn’t mind a bit on how to do camouflage on vehicles. A segment on how to model a Dust walker with a commander or crew. The Karl Marx is perfect for that, because it comes with a commander model, but you can by a commander model for any faction straight from Dust Studio. I would love to know how to get the hatches off some of the walkers not built with one so I can put the commander in a Pounder or some other unit that wasn’t meant to hold a tank commander.
Also how about Tank God UNLEASHED!!!!!!
I think everyone’s getting very caught up in how dragons are named, but forgetting one important thing: gamers (and game companies wanting to sell us stuff) like to parcel things up. In popular culture and mythology, dragons could have however many legs you wanted, wings, breath fire or not, speak or not, be good or bad, etc. Different mythologies have done things differently. But games companies (and players/GMs) like to have a variety of distinct beasties they can define with stats. So in DnD terms, Smaug may be a Wyvern. But more broadly speaking, he’s a dragon.
As for the future of WFB and skirmishing… I think we ought to bear in mind that GW’s prime motivation is what will sell them the most miniatures. If they’re moving away from mass battles it’s ONLY because they’re scared that the game got beyond a tipping point where people stopped buying because they couldn’t afford an army. I think it’s more likely that any newly redesigned game will shrink battles and units (like the 3rd/4th ed photo you showed) rather than go completely for a skirmish game. Because it will allow for people to scale up their armies and play massive games. The point of the change however will be one of presentation and also in the rules, they’re likely to be designed to work with smaller units. But I don’t see why GW would think that a real skirmish game would be in their interests.
I would suggest something along the lines “Masterworks from start to finish”
As a production it is quite interesting idea and something quite interesting to watch, maybe a segment before unboxing laying out what the expected goals of the episode are and a segment in the end summarizing what alterations of the goals were what went well what went wrong and what went far better than expected, for example an on the spot creative idea that was incorporated on the project.
The new series about miniatures from unboxing to finished sounds great.
Necrons are going to appear in the next 40k campaign supplement due out next week. In the past these have tied in to codex releases so they probably are next.
The big question is once all the new style codexes are out, what will they do next? GW has been releasing codexes so fast that if they now start re-doing them they will be reducing the shelf life of each codex to only 2 years or so.
The section on Warhammer and End Times did make me cringe a bit. I know you can’t keep up to date with everything given you cover all the games in the industry, but you made a couple of mistakes that seemed to undermine the segment. There are already rules for combined chaos armies (including beastmen), they were in Glottkin. I think the problem might be you misinterpreting Ben’s notes. The minor human regions of Kislev, Estalia, and Araby have already been taken off the map. Naggaroth has been abandoned and Ulthuan has sunk under the sea. The Lizardmen are talking about a grand exodus. This seems to back up the idea about everwhere outside the old world being abandoned so the story can just focus in on that region.
I actually think Archaon might not turn up by the end of the End Times series and his final invasion could be the setting for the next edition. That’s just a total guess though.
As for the size of warhammer battles shrinking I think that would be a welcome change. To get a new unit for my army I want to buy a box, paint it up and get going. I can do this in 40k, but in fantasy I need to buy 3 boxes to get a decent sized infantry unit as you only get 10 in a box and typically you need 25-30. Ten years ago you would get 20 in a box and that could be a viable unit.
I really enjoyed the show and think rotating host is a good idea. You will all get better at it with time and that can only improve the show overall.
The best way to start a Sunday, is with a big mug of coffee and XLBS. Thanks guys for another great episode!
And here’s my suggestion for John’s new show, Dirty Tracks.
“Making Skid Marks”? 😛
For a skirmish game in the War Hammer Fantasy world; just bring back Mordenheim an excellent skirmish game. Armoured Forge,
Have a look at Fantasy Flight Games on-line site and they do a lot of there rules as PDF down loads.
New Tank God show? ‘Mods and rockets’
The assembly line, or john’s assembly factory. Or
From box to board…..
miniature forge sounds verry nice tbh
Tanks a lot
Tread head’s
Tanked up with John
Justin you could get Dr Gillian McKeith (or to use her correct medical title, Gillian McKeith) to analyse your poo. She specialises in that sort of thing.
Oh, and +1 for “Operation Overdetail”. And +1 for a Stompa in the series *evil grin*
he may just do a blue peter manoeuvre? Lol
I appreciate that you referred to her correct medical title. 😀
Touching on the warhammer going skirmish route it could be an opportunity for GW. If they really knuckle down and give some serious thought to a ruleset they should be able to come up with something that scales from skirmish to army scale, possibly even model to model. Trying to do something similar myself and I don’t think I’m far off a workable ruleset. If I can do it while idly thinking about it, a company with their resources ought to have no difficulty.
Happy sunday guys! My thump ‘s up for “Operation Overdetail” for John’s new show! Yes, I’d like some kind of mech in there too.
Lloyd, I really like your idea of a bright blue dragon and I also like the miniature you got. Cause the dragon on the pictures you showed looks way smaller than the one you already have. Would be looking just amazing on a proper scenic gaming base 🙂 (btw. I would love to paint this on my own, cause I like cool looking asian dragons, but I don’t know where to get this one over here in Germany – any suggestions how to get it?)
wow …..awsome mini ….just screaming out for me to paint it …….loving the show guys 🙂
Happy Sunday. Great show as usual.
YAY giant rhino
Hey guys…
couple comments…Justin now looks like Rob Halford from Judas Priest…lol he will be in a studded leather cap next..
and the other point…lol
free rules been used in historical wargaming for years. you dont need all the background fluff
Right and right (free historical rules – You can even make your own from Donald Featherstone’s books).
If you’ve seen Justin in his Steampunk gear that is at least a rough approximation of the Rob Halford look. Ming the merciless springs to mind for me. What a handsome chap!
To be fair the history at the core of historical games IS the fluff, just covered in many history books/tv programmes/etc about the relevant period. In that case you are simply adding rules to the background, rather than concocting a background to add interest to a rule set.
Haaaaapy sunday! haha dont know why wont play at the iphone so has to see it on pc..
How about simply calling it ‘The Factory’, it’s a little nod to churning out tanks, which I’m sure Jon would love to do but keeps it general enough that you can do any era, or model range.
from box to battlefield. thats a fine name for that segment. youre free to use
it:)
John could you do the Dragoes TAG from Infinity, I’m interested in seeing how you would go about modelling it so that the cannon on the shoulder is held in two hands like a machine gun. Great episode btw.
Got to be ‘Op over detail’.
great show guys
The Glottkin already combine all the Chaos in to one list
I think a fantasy skirmish game to replace Hobbit would a good idea. I generally don’t have time these days to build, paint and play large scale wargames. Most of the systems I play are skirmish based, it also means that with smaller amount of minis to paint I can spend a lot longer painting them. I also find that with a skirmish game you can have much more scenery on the table which makes the games a lot more interesting to play.
Good show, as usual.
Free rules I find are good as a taster for a set, before the expense of the actual rulebook (I’m old fashioned, I like a paper book, or PDF printout, over a tablet)
Lord of the Rings had a mass battle version, War of the Ring, which used movement trays for figures (8 foot or 2 mounted) and then multiple trays for units. Kind of like an oversized set of Warmaster rules, and I believe they didn’t catch on well.
Great show guys, once you got past the tape worms/hook worms. 🙂
When Sam, Lloyd, and Justin started poking fun at John, they actually parked a few ideas for John’s proposed vehicle show:
“Steel Dragons” (this way it suggests vehicles from different genres, not just historical)
“Armour Plated”
“Recoil”
“Muzzle Flash”
“Horsepower”
“Eisenkrieg” (German: Iron War)
I like Steel Dragons as a show name. As you say, it conjures up images of various warfare contraptions.
Hmm so Fantasy going to skirmish could be a good thing. But what concerns me is why would I play it over other Skirmish games or why would I not play Mantics offering which according to Ronnie will give me all the options! As for Dragon you can not have enough dragons
I’d definitely be interested in a skirmish based WHFB, especially if we saw some kind of campaign system to go along with it. Even a scaled back ruleset, where I don’t need to haul around hundreds of minis just to play a game would be of interest.
However I can see that there might be some loss in moving to smaller battles.
Excellent show, well done Justin keep those boys on a short lead lol
John how about ‘John’s Baggies’ for a show title?
Skirmish for Warhammer fantasy I am thinking along the lines of Saga.
How about this for a name for Johns series.
“Eat, Sleep, Hobby, Repeat”
🙂
if the rumours are true, The End Times: Khaine is looking to really move things exponentially HEHEEE! EXCITED!!
Thanks for the discussions guys! Can’t believe you’re still having internet issues from all the bad weather! WOW.
John the Builder? LoL!!
Can he mod it?
Jooohn the builder
Yes he can!
Plastic to paint
Sprued, Glued and Tattooed.
Tankology
To explain the obscure double meaning –
Tank logos – the study or knowledge of tanks
Tank Logos – Tank Jesus (and by extension, Tank God)
About free rules – they need not be a replacement for rules in the traditional book form – Take Dystopian Wars there are two new (published this year) one with a lot of fluf and one with just the mechanics
Is the list of free rules Lloyd was referring too listed on the site anywhere?
I would like to see John do Yan Lo from Malifaux and him Going By Yan Lo’s beard as it suddenly dissapears.
name ideas
John ‘s start to finish
Box to battlefield
happy sunday
Ummmmmmmm…?
Errrrrrr…
Pffffff….
Nah I can’t even pretend, I just want the Xerxis model!
In my opinion WFB is already a skirmish game, with its push towards (ex$pensive) character figures and large special units (screaming bell, mortis engine, etc). It’s a “mass combat” in name only, and has been that way since they found out special rules for single models meant they could charge a premium for those models.
I think the only thing that would change, with an official move to skirmish rules, would be the inability to use those large special units except in scenario games (“Oh no, your doomwheel is stuck in mud! Defend it while your engineers dig it out.”).
I could also see a move to round bases, and more (“premium cost”) lower level character figures such as captains and sergeants. Rank and file units could also be remodeled to add more visual variation in a skirmish game, enabling them to justify a price rise for them.
Tankgod is king! How about “bolts, tracks and turrets with Jonno”
I like Operation Overdetail….
as to Warhammer Fantasy… i’m excited that the Skaven get the next book… they were the first army I ever bought and played… way back…. as to their Foe? Sorry to Sam but in the first End Time Book the Lizardmen and the Slann priests opened gates and fled the world so I doubt they would be the main foe of the Skaven…. I would think Dwarves (since we haven’t seen much of them in the End Times and in the past the Skaven have tunneled into various Dwarven Kingdoms)… also in the Nagash book the skaven have taken over a whole city…. the name escapes me as I only have the book as an ebook and my ipad isn’t handy.
Great show again. My thought for Johns modelling videos are “Johns kit and caboodle”
(The idiomatic expression “The whole kit and caboodle”, which can be loosely interpreted to mean “everything and more”.)
Name for John’s show: Tank Factory
If Warhammer Fantasy does go skirmish my horde of WF mini’s might actually see more games. Not all at once of course, but at the moment they’re just gathering dust in the garage.
I do wonder how all the huge constructs and creatures would fit into the future game.
Would GW put that much effort into creating these big kits and then say “No, that’s not usable anymore in the new rules.” It sounds unlikely.
I think they’ll still be a big part of it. WarmaHordes has Battle Engines and Colossals/Gargantuans and that’s a skirmish.
I can see GW offering a skirmish size game for Fantasy and 40k because then they can go after both markets. With their model prices set so high only folks with larger expendable incomes can even consider Fantasy or 40k. I am building my third Fantasy army at the moment and it is a VERY expensive game to get into because of the large number of troops you need to field. I also play Flames of War which is also not cheap. Skirmish games largely cater to players with more limited finances, although not entirely so. Cheers!
As well as a lower initial cost for skirmish games, there is less painting to do. Not every gamer likes painting, and not every gamer who likes painting enjoys painting multiple rank and file models. Another bonus is the time saved having to paint fewer models, which helps players who have limited time available.
All of this ↑. Even the people I know who like painting don’t enjoy painting up 40 models for a horde unit. A skirmish game doesn’t mean that GW have to sell less minis. It just means that players need to buy and paint fewer of them to get going.
Find some kind of metallic of robotic Dragon for John
How about Tank Forge for John’s show. Looking forward to watching it whatever it ends up being called.
Wyrm wars lol like the idea of operation detail etc for name of new show for John
I would love more skirmish warhammer. Really like the world of warhammer, but don’t really have the time for 3 hour games. Would be very nice with 1 hour games instead. ^^
Btw Gotrek and Felix are still about in the End Times and I think will have a fairly large part in it.
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/The_End_Times <- Lots of spoilers
sorry Justin, I miss warren, you speak too quickly when you’re excited, although by the end of the video not too bad.
I suppose practice makes perfect.
great show guys
Was going to post something profound about WHFB changes, but then realised I just really want the Xerxis model! with as little effort as possible. Sorry
Happy to hear some decent in-depth GW discussion. I enjoyed that part. For John’s series: how about “cry John and let slip the pots of war”. Happy Sunday!
Interesting (slightly confusing at times) show guys
What about from unboxing to unloading? Or operation undercoating? Paint club?
Sam the C drive is the drive with all the important stuff you loose when Windows fcuk’s up.
The Definition of a Dragon, a big god dam lizard.
happy sunday!
The drawn out Games Workshop rumor discussions are starting to get old especially with how many games there are available to talk about. The reason I pay for the backstage subscription is because of the variety of topics you are capable of covering.
Dopping a comment as instructed …
Would love to see a skirmish set of rules for warhammer.
May be based around roaming bands, or the little side shows that happen in any war.
‘He’s only Jon and done it’. yeah, maybe back to bed…
Happy monday!
the dragon on this look amazing
I like the operation over detail name. it fits with john’s approach to minis and ties into his love of the historical, mainly ww2 games.
As a wfb player, i like what gw is doing with the end times. i have not read the khaine book yet, i just bought my softback copy and it is coming in the mail soon. i think that fantasy will have some skirmish aspect to it for a couple of reasons. First, the market seems to be going that way. most of the new games in the last couple of years are skirmish games. and the mass battle games that are doing well, flames of war and dropzone commander to name a few, are at smaller scales than 28mm. Second, gw licences for the lotr and the hobbit will both expire in the next couple of years, which means that they will only have massed battle games. Say what you will about 40k and how it plays like a skirmish game, but it is a massed battle game.
However, it would be a real same if gw eliminated the mass battle side of fantasy. it would be cool to seem a skirmish system that can be included into mass battles in some way. Of course if gw does eliminate the mass battle part of fantasy I will still play it, i have too much invested into it not to keep playing it. it will just be a shame that there will be nothing new coming out about for it
End Times did a great job of getting me interested in WFB again and got me looking at a Dwarf army. However I’d quite like a decent fantasy skirmish campaign game a la Mordheim. I’d love a new Necromunda (Deadzone is overly simple for me and I can’t get on with Mantic restic miniatures) but fantasy is fine for me.
I can’t see WFB getting dropped really, and would they drop it for an unproven skirmish game after the lack of success with things like LOTR and The Hobbit?
I reckon ” John’s M.T Section” (M.T motor transport)
And if it hasn’t already been suggested how about
” Pimp My Tank!”
Why is necessary to be contuinally reading rules during a battle. Can all the opposing special rules be got rid of and make the game free flowing.
Conceptualiser – sounds like the John Blanche position.
John’s Chopshop?
WFB into skirmish, yep I’d play that. they need to do something though as for a mass battle system I’ll play kings of war due to how fast the system plays
Happy Sunday I hope the Bretonnians are not combined with empire it will kill my want to play their version of fantasy. As far as free rules go most if not all company’s should create a free rules set with the major rules and some of the fluff to get more players interested in the world they are playing in.
Not sure if someone has already suggested it, but why not GOD FORGE
I don’t really have an idea for the show name, but that epic Xerxis would look great in between my bronzeback and my archidon. 🙂
New segment called “Symphony of Construction”? Or am I just keen for Meagdeth as the theme music…
very entertaining episode gents, well done.
great episode! love dragons
John’s new show sounds great! I like Op. Overdetail for the name.
Justin is what can only be described as a “Loveable Buffoon”. Great job of being the boss Justin.
Justin, I think we have your new job description. BoW’s loveable buffoon
Not the nicest thing to do, calling someone a “loveable buffoon” on a forum that they read, even though I assume you meant it as a compliment.
I call justin many things.. none of them permissible in polite company… or any company for that matter.
Ah, but you are his mate. Insults between mates are expected, and often encouraged.
I like the sound of a box to completion series, and Operation Over Detail sounds like an appropriate name to me
i like the idea of a fantasy skirmish game but i agree i still want the ability to play mass rank and file fantasy battles as well. also love the idea of johns new show
@lloyd To further your Oriental Dragon needs, have you looked at Shael Han Fulung Devourer on the CMoN Wrath of Kings Kickstarter?
Link to some pics:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/coolminiornot/wrath-of-kings/posts/1001232
Enjoy
Oh and Operation Over Detail MUST happen
The internet and piracy has changed the way entertainment and media companies have to work. But, if your game is good then people will play it. Companies should believe in their product and show passion.
I really enjoyed “Justin in control”. The enthusiasm is infectious and it is propelling me on, hopefully to great things 🙂
Lloyd seemed to zone out at the end there !
Hmmmmmm
JL’s Modelling Master class
Or
The Lyons Den
OK I think the Lyons Den is excellent.
Sounds like people would come to me with their tank designs and I would either build it or rip them a new one and show them the door
“WHAT DO YOU MEAN GAS-TURBINE ENGINE?!…”
Necrons are pretty solid at the moment. I hope they don’t get nerfed. Reanimation protocols may be changed to 6+. Tomb spiders will hopefully be buffed.
Enjoyed the show as always guys, cheers.
Great show guys. I think it Johns new show should simply be called “The John Show” . About the dragon thing, about wywens , it kinda depends on lore of the game your are playing in. There was also drake lore long before fantasy games 😉 Dont think WFB will be a skirmish game only. Yes it can be a pain to paint many models, but i like my skaven in big hordes, with the big warmachines and monster in between 😉
Great show chaps
Thanks for another entertaining XLBS! Getting into Warmahordes seems like a good idea with new hard plastics and all. Awsome Xerxes mini.
I joined Backstage a couple of weeks ago, and shows like this is what’ll keep me coming back. A nice way for me to get information relating to my favourite hobbies, and a excellent source for a good chuckle as well.
That new troll forged mech would be perfect for johns new show
Great show guys,
I personally hope fantasy has a skirmish set of rules added to the mass battle game might be enough to get me back in to Fantasy battle now. As it can be a lot when your just starting out to have to collect and paint so much up. Well i can but hope.
Love to see some of the newer DUST models from unboxing to detailed paint. maybe show a premium model as comparison.
so – free rules books – yes definetely thats the firs thing I look fore when I’m interested in system , so minis are for catch the eye but – how to play – have to be free, if its interesting and I had read about then I will have to have printed copy and some companies don’t do printed copies budget, if i like system I would send request for printed copy, or like wolfsung you can download full rulebook free – and guys like me or Sam – if like it they will buy book because I have to have book in hand, ( same with prodos – in parts but when you download every part – rules – faction files, its full book or almost ) so free rules don’t stop me from buying books – its encourage me to do so.
Justin great show by the way – way better than yesterday.
I like idea of Johns show a lot.
Sam needs to run a Dungeons and Dragon 5th edition game for the BoW team and record it for the audience. Maybe Warren and Loyd will discover they actually like Playing RPGs =)
New Show = Model Forge
Next Codex = Necron
The more I have read everyone’s comments on the new show idea the more ready and nervous I am getting haha!
My fav title is till Op-Overdetail
@lloyd,
Have you checked out the Dark Sword dragons?
They don’t seem to know they exist or are deliberately ignoring them, can’t tell which because they have been mentioned in the comments frequently. IMO yogiebear, they are the best on the market.
I love when you guys talk about fluff! Keep it up!
John like too see a winter detail on tanks. with mud snow and white wash look on a tank. paints ,wash , flock etc. ..Be good with ww2 or 40k stuff .
I’m a huge fan of fantasy and the idea of it going skirmish sounds great!
Like Warren has said before the old rule sets are still there, so if you want to play bigger battles they’re there. Go for it. The depth of games a skirmish rule set gives you is very exciting.
Imagine playing a village fight, going from room to room, house to house within the Warhammer world. Form Skaven popping up through the cellars to raid a Empire town, to, battling through the levels of a Keep, defending a lord from Chaos, or Orks or anything you can imagine.
I like the model forge for a name for Johns show.
The free rules thing is relying on the idea of people gaming systems which I guess we have GW culture to blame for a little. The companies handing out free rules are relying on you buying their minis even when it really isn’t necessary, why not use the rules for a different miniatures?
Buy or buy not. There is no why.
What Yoda is saying is that the buying habits of most gamers line up with official releases. There’s no need to buy the official minis, but most people do. There are several reasons why this is the case. Many people are first attracted to a game because they like the minis, so to then play it without the minis defeats the point. Many others can’t be bothered to look elsewhere and try to find suitable proxies when the actual minis are easily available. And many just like to actually use the correct minis. Consequently, people do buy the official minis, and hence making the rules freely available works.
It has been Mantic’s policy for a while, and KoW they state specifically they don’t care who’s mini’s you use, but the range has been a hit.
Great show !
Good stuff, as always.
perfect marriage between John’s love of mechanisation and the fantasy dragon. Why not get him a Reaper Bones mini Clockwork Dragon for him, everybody wins.
Cannot wait to see what John does with the new show, will be a nice thematic approach to communicate hobby techniques – bit of a Hobby theme-tank.
I think Ben is right about the warhammer world being collapsed down – I hope and don’t think it will go shadow – could see a return to the ‘warband’ style games that was the norm circa 3rd Ed and the Slaves to Darkness/ Lost and the Damned – where you have character and 1-2 box size units. I think the big goal I would aim for if I was designing 9th would be a game that scales up nicely from a small force – and I don’t think skirmish would lend itself to that.
John just keep the name sort and sweet ” modelling workshop “
id like to see it to go up a level a diarima (sorry about the spelling) do doing up a tank like devil fish on the inside and out and them so tau troopers as you could cover some process in the building of the tank and some on the troopers and in the paint job you could use some weathering powders to match them all togetther use it as a way to show how to get a consistent look
Warlock rides a beasts bigger than the Warbeasts 😛
@lloyd The Gold Dragon from the book looked almost identical to your Dragon, perhaps you should paint it gold.
“Touch of the Tank God”
“Get a degree of modelling skill” (with the Tank God)
“Beyond Unboxing”
“Beyond the Box”
Build, Paint, Weather. (The BPW Show)
“Under the weathering”
“Superdetailing with John”
Once again, a great show guys!
Noc
I’d like some Skorne please
Good show, always fun to watch
“John’s Chopshop” sounds catchy.
looking forward to seeing Johns series into mini’s mods and conversions, would love to see not only tanks but also armoured cars, halftracks, trucks, jeeps, cars and artillery for the bolt action side. My favourite Dragons of all time would have to be the Dragonlance Dragons, the art work for them was amazing.
I have way too many Reaper Bones II dragons coming, so I think I’ll be sorted with them for a long time.
Show title suggestion, “Doing it for the inhalants”
@johnlyons don’t know if anyone posted this but the show’s name could be “A one detail too far”. The idea is great whatever it is going to be called.
On free rules, I’m not sure someone has commented,but you guys mentioned that a downside of free rules was the absence of the fluff – some games, namely Spartan Games’ ones, have the FULL rulebook online whenever they actually do it – this is valid for Uncharted Seas and Firestorm Armada, for instance. The first versions of Mantic’s Warpath also had the full fluff in them and only stopped doing so recently.
Also, back when GW had the Specialist Games rules online, they too were the full monty, even though they were split up into smaller files, each with a section of the books.
These versions of the rules almost invariably lead me to buy miniatures and, quite often, the rulebooks themselves.
On the subject of Warhammer Fantasy, I believe one of the main issues is that GW priced itself out of the market – this is a problem for them, but surely not one that will lead them to turn Fantasy into a Skirmish game – that would be a huge mistake, given all the people that own full armies and hundreds or thousands of minis (me and my brother own around 2500 models for WFB alone) and all the people that want to play a fantasy “mass” battle game. Granted, the coming of a new edition doesn’t preclude anyone from playing older ones (just look at the case of the Oldhammer wargaming scene),but still, the lack of support would not be viewed favourably – I, for one, would probably completely stop buying GW, period (not that they’d care).
I’d also like to point out that 6th Ed Fantasy *had* a skirmish set in the back of it and they had a skirmish booklet that could be used,as well as over 25 scenarios on their website, plus the mordheim ruleset which was a skirmish game as well. 7th Ed had “Path to glory”, another free booklet that was available from the website for skirmish level games.This could all be revived and given proper support from the company.
Another solution (that will never happen, though in the end it drives sales down and more nails to a dying company’s coffin) would be a sensible price tag on ranked troops, which wouldn’t at all be out of line – the current plastic orc infantry frame, for instance, has been paid for over and over. Orc infantry used to be 15£ for 19 models, now it’s 18£ for 10 – what possible and plausible justification is there for this?
Finally @dracs, I appreciate your input and contributions to the discussions very much,but you guys need to be a bit more informed – War of the Ring (GW) was (is) a mass battle ruleset that uses the strategy battle game’s models in trays, ranked up – each regiment is made up of companies of 2 cavalry models or 8 infantry ones. The regiment size was originally designed so that a boxed set of plastic infantry models could give the players 3 companies (24 infantry dudes). They sold the trays and all…
Advanced magnetisation techniques for army list options