Weekender XLBS: Boot Camps Coming Soon & What Is The Nostalgia Hit?
August 28, 2016 by dignity
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And again, right as I leave for work. Nuts.
Happy Sunday. Even if it’s barely Sunday here. 😀
Happy Sunday have to have a serious think about December. …
@rasmus you think your out and they pull u back in 😉
Just have to see if the logistics can be worked out. …
Happy Sunday!
I just realised, the tanuki I sent you is sitting on the set! This has made me rather more happy than it should, but that’s tanukis in general for you.
And i tickle his balls before every recording just like you said i should. Backstage membership is growing accordingly, just like your local Japanese witch doctor said it would! Result! 😉
So once again it all comes down to balls eh…… Guess it really is all in the reflexes.
If membership remains up for more than 24 hours please consult your Shinto priest.
@brennon @warzan @dignity didn’t Barry Sheen have a PC truck racing game out we he was older during his time raring trucks when he stopped bike racing?
Sunday is here!
Happy Sunday so in for the bootcamps
hell yeah!
Happy Sunday
To me painting has been more integral to this hobby than anything else – always loved art and drawing/painting – it’s actually one of the first things I look at for any new to me IP ‘would I like to paint those minis?’.
That being said it’s not the be all and end all, alot of the games I have now we play unpainted as I just don’t have the time to hobby. I think pre-paints would be great, it allows people to get more into the cinematic qualities of a game to have everything painted on a tabletop and it’s a step closer to that without hours of hobby that is a going rather then an enjoyment for some, for me though and probably other hobbyists it would not stop me painting them and doing my own thing (I have an X-wing Millennium Falcon to repaint and also have a collection of Disney Infinity characters, more of which I will buy as they go clearance for the single purpose of repainting them) conversions make warhammer game for me, I love to see what they’ve done and add my own spin to it – always have and always will 😉
*hobby that is a grind for some rather than the enjoyment for others
happy sunday! BOOT CAMP !!!
@warzan there was the Star Wars special editions, and it is not Keating for Batman, but Keaton
In general remember nostalgia ain’t what it used to be
@warzan you really took back with action force. I was all about the Red Shadows, and the crazy flying skull ship they had. A number of years ago I found an old sweetshop which had a boxed Baron Iron blood on the shelf priced at 49p, he happily sits on my shelf now.
@warzan @tresilliian, You, sir, are a man after my own heart.
We are also interested in the boot camps; roll on November!
action force was our version of g.i. joe, used to love my figures and the comic which if i remember rightly had one half action force and you flipped it and the other half was transformers.
@warzan, I also loved Action Force during the Baron Ironblood era.
I am currently working on a Red Shadows army in 28mm scale using a combination of various different miniatures and models (including some Dust walkers) – may start a separate project log on this soon.
On the subject of prepainted minis it actually reminded me of the first minis based game i played. Which was Subbuteo (football version, they did less successful cricket and rugby versions) anyway. I used to play this alongside building model aircraft. Obviously i had my favourite team and other teams i picked up. However as you know football teams change their kits so i decided to repaint my Subbuteo players with my humbrol enamals and up date the kits. So to me prepainted minis are how i really started painting minis back in the 80s…:-)
@warzan I’ve actually already drawn the wrong dungeon strip, it’s not quite as you said but I think you’ll like it. Have to wait until Tuesday to find out, think I’ll upload Tuesdays and Thursdays.
would be interested in both might only be able to afford on, but which on……..
Happy Sunday guys and girls, love that I have a chance to try and make a boot camp. Won’t be able to the November one as it will be on the Remembrance Weekend but hoping to grab a ticket for the December one before they sell out.
Happy Sunday!
Happy Sunday!
Inspiration is inspiration no matter what the source. History, book, film, vGame or original fluff. Is it the “water-cooler” moments you’re looking for? They can be found in all the sources.
You wondered about LOTR… that had already ‘lasted’ severa decades before Star Wars even appeared and of course GW had a game long before the Trilogies – but a re-boot from a popular source always helps. A new Harry Potter Book from JK Rowling will inevitably give that franchise a reboot, as will the upcoming spin-off film and even the Stage Play. Good IP is good IP.
As for TT games and vGame sources we’re seeing some come through… Banner Saga, Halo, Dark Souls – to name but a few.
I guess some IP has worked the other way – GW products spring to mind, but with differing success, but it’s noticabe this is an avenue GW seem to be focussing on strategically. Maybe they’re not just a minis company any more and have become more about IP.
Damnit why are you making me choose I want to goto both!
Damn You @warzan !!!! That’s on the Rememberance Day weekend!
I would have loved to make it to the Nov bootcamp, ( if only to ensure the Zombie Justin does not rise from the dead). I’ll be away doing a fundraising 400kms walk for The Bravery Trust. ( Its a group to help Australian returned servicesmen & women with any issues from the Iraq & Afghan deployments). Last year the walk raised approx $35K walking 570kms. Hoping we’ll raise atleast $20-30K this year.
I will get there at some point with my Anzac Bikkies!!
As for a wargame for Ronny Renton, my I suggest, A) The Goodies, B) Danger-mouse/Banana-man, C) The Dark Crystal ( Mmmm Gelfing!! Justin Gelfing ??) or D) the old arcade game Ghost & Goblins & E) the PS4 game STYX.
December sounds like a must as I have missed out on the KS and am thanks to you regretting it now. The models are just too tempting. So I’ll be speaking to the missus and check on flights.
I’m very tempted by November as well as it sounds like a blast but I went crazy during the KS and got everything TWD there is…and Sunday I will have to look after the kids and dog as the wife will be on parade.
Arrgh..really difficult..
@warzan Maybe Justin and Ben remember Action Force under its American name of GI Joe?
Wasn’t Action man GI Joe?
I remember my brother getting a GI Joe from the states in the 60’s a few years before action man appeared in the UK
Yup, then when they shifted the GI Joe line to 3 1/2″ figures in the US it came across rebranded as Action Force and badly dubbed any references to GI Joe in the show 🙂
Action Force had a much better intro theme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1RBEqRt52Y
Compared to the damp squid that is the GI Joe music…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EX_9jKFpQKM
That’s hysterical. I was thinking to myself as he described it, that it sounded a lot like GI Joe.
Happy Sunday!
I just want to comment on the Kharn thingy @warzan I recently got back into buying some GW models after a two years apart period caused by the sickness towards looking at 100+ Skavens left to paint in my drawer. (Speaking of the prepaint stuff glory vs grey pile of shame) Anyway, I bought some Stormcat Eternals and started to paint them. At first I was excited. God! The quality of the model and the amount of detail! 🙂 They looked fabulous. Now, I am a rather slow painter due to the amount of time I have and I must say it took me almost two weeks to finish two Retributor miniatures. I got a bit discouraged by the fact and had to take a break for some time from the Stormcasts. My point is, I find them beautiful pieces of art (meaning sculpt) but they are really demanding and time consuming. It is challenging for a person like me because I do not play games with unpainted models. Now, imagine they were really good prepaints. I would buy a box and play. On the other hand, if it wasn’t for the painting aspect of the hobby I would never have gotten into it. A paradox.
I think one company that does not succumb to overdetailing is Corvus Belli.
Is it because they are wise (miniatures designers) and focus on dynamic human poses OR is it because they draw on fluff/imagery that is more streamlined?
Probably it´s a combination of the two.
@warzan I’m right with you on Action Force. Them and GIJoe were my great collecting love after Transformers. Still got a stack of the old Battle Action Force comics knocking around somewhere. Good lord those books were brutal!
Robotech & Battletech, a primer:
Robotech was an animation built for the US syndication market by combining three seperate anime shows from Japan – Super Dimensional Fortress Macross, Southern Cross and Genesis Climber Mospeda – to create one sprawling inter-generational sci-fi war story. As a rule most people are familiar with the Macross designs from the Robotech section, and Macross itself is one of the titans of the Japanese anime industry, along with Mobile Suit Gundam. For licencing reasons, other than Macross Plus, none of this broader franchise has hit western markets (also, pop songs. Lots & lots of pop songs…).
Battletech began as a mecha combat game system using the mecha designs from Macross to create vastly different ideas of warmachines. Due to the aforementioned licencing issues these initial mechs (Marauder, Warhammer, Phoenix, Stinger etc…) became known as The Unseen, although the Mechwarrior Online videogame has inspired a forthcoming set of redesigns.
Battlemechs are literal titans of the battlefield whilst in Robotech they are treated as being far more as disposable, even for the shows heroes, given they were intended to place a human onto an equal footing with a 2-foot tall giant.
Oh, and I remember that last time this came up and you & Justin built some of the Robotech RPG Tactics built some of the mechs you said you couldn’t understand the Veritcehs Gerwalk/Guardian mode, where it is half way between fighter and robot modes. The idea is that it effectively turns the Valkyrie into a VTOL attack gunship with the limb functionality of the Battloid mode. Jump to the 11 minute mark here to see what I mean https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSbOmdItC5I or to the 1 hour 13 minute mark for one of the oddest courtships in anime (and that’s saying something!). No subtitles and it’s in Japanese I’m afraid, but the animation and music still holds up 🙂
SHE said yes to the December Bootcamp! Yay..sign me up and count me in, nothing will stop me now!!
She did say yes rather quickly …I’m sure she wants something in return..hmmm..
Which one, WHICH ONE!!!!
I have green light from my mrs for 11th nov boot camp, 😀
I have opened the traditional bootcamp threads on the backstage forums 🙂
Happy Sunday
Argh that Droopfleet Commander Bootcamp sounds very very tempting … if december wasn’t such a full month for me. I’ll have to try and see if i can somehow make room for a trip to ireland … and start saving money up for this one 😉
And be carefull Warren, what would Trump say to you mexicanizing people 😉
And for proxying models, i guess for friendly games it’s fair game, and even for your local tourneys no problem at all. Official tourneys and bigger ones are another beast to tackle with that one. And i guess it depends on how many proxies there are. If it’s just one or two things, no problem at all. But once i played someone who told me for almost every single unit he fielded some things they were proxies for …and it was a headache to remmeber all of it or ask him again and again what weapons they had. And i’m with Warren on this one, often times it feels like you need to buy more stuff just to get those weapon options … and for me it gets worse if some weapon options you could use don’t have minis available for them, so you would need to build this weapon combinations for yourself. And not everyone has the talent or drive for stuff like that.
And with painting … i love playing with the stuff i bought and painted, but some minis i just bought because i loved the look of them and thought it would be fun to paint them … and that comes from a beginner in painting. For me it’s something like a form of medidation to just sit there and paint and listen to something in the background, be it some show, podcast or something else.
On Nostalgia: i really would wish that Battletech would get a chance to grow again and reach more people. And there is one Toy/Cartoon-Range from my childhood days that i would wish to come back …and dread at the same time. M.A.S.K.. I loved it and had far to many of the toys 😉
And yay i got mentioned by Warren, time to mark this one in my calendar 😉 And you even didn’t butcher my nickname to much … usually it’s pronounced in a more german sounding way … but that could end up butchering it … so everything is fine 😉
Well that was a great show and one which touched upon more topics than first viewed. I am of an age where Batman WAS Adam West and his anti shark bat repellent on his belt.
I have not seen any of the new batman films simply because Batman was as corny even then as my memories are now. I always thought that one day they would as they do with most great stories end up in the when Batman meets Superman tale, I know it happened in comics, but the thought of it on the big screen seriously leaves me cold. So when look back I remember BBC2 being launched. Dan Dare was at the Saturday cinema and the cost of fish chips peas tea bread and butter was around 75p nowadays. I missed the computer games being in the forces. Even bought a Philips digital disc player back in the day, basicaly huge size CD’s.
@querion
C’mon mate, you gotta..would be nice to meet in person!
I’ve booked the flight already…muahah!
In return I will have to spend the BH weekend painting SHE said.
The kids bedrooms.
Gulp.
I knew there was a price to pay..
I can’t promise anything, but i’ll try my very best.
And of course there would be a price … but i guess for that bootcamp the price is still reasonable enough 😉 But don’t let her read that!
Happy Sunday,
Looks like I going to try and hopefully go back to northern Ireland this year must remember to take the winter coat and if I can get the same room at the hotel as last time that would be great.
Green light is go… It’s got to be dropfleet! I also chose not to do the Kickstarter and regretting that decision. Hopefully they’ll be a space available for this….
Couple of ideas for Ben, now that he’s in high def now – you’ve got to do a ‘holly’ at some point (red dwarf reference) and well done for cutting down on the word ‘cool’ – it has been noted!
Te Nostalgia Hit for me, being a wee bit older than some on here circles about films and TV shows when I was growing up as there wasn’t the depth in games as there is now, if fact Wargaming was in its infancy for the first games I got into was playing with my airfix figures using the rules that airfix produced, some of which were very good and still stand up well still todays’ rules.
I grew up on a diet of westerns and war movies, didnt from many board games as there wasnt many and no computer games at all. I got my Nostalgia Hit fired up because of a old French TV series called the Flashing Blade, anyone remember the theme song?, think of the Musketeers but actually better, big villains and bigger heroes. I still love this 30 year war/ECW period and this has fired my love for skirmish games with Larger than live characters.
Another TV series was Dads Army with all the bumbling around and this has led me directly to Very British Civil War, with the same ideas of fun, sportmanship and fun.
I think coming from a time before manufacturers aimed at the child/teen market has meant that I dont get that Nostalgic that much as the reference wasnt there.
An addition to Nostalgia.
@warzan you had to mention turrican … now i’ll just have to listen to the music from chris hülsbeck again … he was just a master with old chiptune music.
@dignity in regards to the NES, did you know that nintendo will release the NES-Mini/NES Classic Edition later this year? A small console that you can connect to our modern tvs and that has 30 games preinstalled? Sadly you can’t get more games for it, but the list is full of nice classic games. There is stuff like Bubble Bobble, Castlevania 1+2, Final Fantasy, Mega Man 2, Super Mario Bros 1-3, Zelda 2 …well and much more.
Does being a Walking Dead backer keep me out of the chance for a Boot Camp ticket?
I would love to have a gaming adventure in Northern Ireland.
The Bolt Action and Infinity boot camps have been my favourite so far. I would love to attend.
On the conversation about game design, my example and understanding would be from my experience of Infinity. I love the miniatures, which is what drew me in. I love the back story, especially behind Dawn / Ariadna. I like the artwork, but prefer the action shots rather than the cartoonish style (Recent RPG related pics rather than the USAriadna box set art style).
All that said, it has taken an age to get into the rules. My son rarely wants to play the game with me as a result and apart from the joy of painting I haven’t really got my money’s worth. I think the beyond the box rules and miniatures being considered for after Red Veil is a great idea. I felt that after finishing the Operation Icestorm scenarios I still wasn’t ready for a full game with hackers, group activations and some of the more complicated mechanics.
Whereas we just bought Tanks! from GF9, fairly cheap in comparison to other games, the back story is WWII which is a deep and exciting backstory and my son adores the game and the mechanics. I don’t get so much of a hobby fix, but there’s far more fun and interaction to make up for that.
Nostalgia:
I think that some of the focus on the nostalgia effect from the big companies is partly down to dragging people back to the industry and partly down to their own love of their roots in gaming. Sadly even if you have an awesome new idea, with a fantastic set of rules the youth of today are not ordinarily trawling the internet looking for tabletop wargaming. It is us, current or old war gamers, that investigate into what’s on offer. The overall goal is to get more people into the hobby, so teenagers need to be interested in the games, but it is gamers or ex-gamers that are now parents that have the money or provide the pocket money that most companies aim to tap into. Grab the parents eye with nostalgia and the chances of getting the warganing gene into more households drastically improves.
Though we say that we crave uniqueness, we’re told by companies that create these games that they deliberately make their games with comparable and relatable elements to the games that came before. They find that anything truly unique and too far from the norm risks being rejected.
I’m looking forward to finishing off a few scatter terrain ideas and maybe finishing the project with a picture of a table containing all the blogs contents and having my first play through of Frostgrave.
Great weekender.
I find the pre-painted miniatures potentially having a negative impact on painting an interesting subject. Great models from x wing have been coming out for a number of years and I think you could almost combine two of the shows themes in looking at them.
I wonder how much of their success is due to previous painted models and would be interested to know how much story and background comes in direct support of the game or is mostly just the background IP.
Does their growth and popularity bring what may be a fourth component to the trilogy of gaming success when making a game if using a pretty established IP. That being Nostalgia for the core IP.
The chicken and egg question may have another facet we haven’t fully explored and which I didn’t really think about until this show. And that’s what are the differences between targeting a consumer to bring a new edition of a previously established game or producing the game initially and I think a big part of this is aimed at start up companies who have to prioritise dye to limited budgets. Many people I know backed the Twisted KS due to the lovely miniatures and have no idea what the background or the rules are.
How long will it before we each have a 3D printer in our homes with our PC and we download a file to make our own minis possible where different coloured filament is layered in such a way to provide us with a fully coloured miniature. Its asking to me that one of the lads at our club noe makes his own scenery using one that cost him less than £1000.
ya know on the topic of boot camps… WHY NO KONFLIKT 47??? After seeing what you guys did for the bolt action boot camp terrain wise, add some weird war elements to the terrain and im sure it will be unforgettable. Hell id be on the first flight here from California just for that weekend! (but after my last trip to Ireland it will probably end up being a couple weeks again) You guys could even twofer it with the second edition bolt action coming out soon. I mean honestly guys i need a good excuse to run away to Ireland again and i cant think of a better reason than to bring my US Marines across the pond.
We’ll see what we can do 🙂
How much notice do you need to come over?
@warzan If you build it they will come.
@warzan but on a serious note for a good chunk of time to be gaming with you guys, scheduling to get out there is extremely easy
I really need to double read my posts before posting as I forget there’s no edit. Last sentence should start, It’s amazing to me…
Just on Kharn, and other opinions are available, I’m not saying that I don’t want lots of detail on a mini. There are sculptors who are masters at putting lots of detail on a mini. What I am saying is that there is a way to do it well and a way to do it in such a way that the detail drowns the mini, and that is never a good thing (IMO). The mini can have a lot of detail, it can be OTT, but it doesn’t have to drown in detail.
I agree @redben. Detail on a mini is there to enhance not obscure. Perhaps CAD designers should have a picture of the Perry designed Green Knight in front of them so they can see the best example of the use of detail in enhancing a miniature.
I agree with @warzan as well in that some CAD designers are pushing the envelope in terms of what can be added and don’t seem to be thinking about whether that makes a better figure. Let’s hope they get a grip on this soon and focus on elegance and necessity over volume in terms of added detail.
Happy Sunday everybody.
On the subject of Heroscape. I have only played it once and it is not really my thing.
But I have a friend, he’s a board gamer and has Heroscape and he likes it a lot. He finds it sad that they don’t make it any more and if you find boxes of it will cost a lot. He still tries to play it a lot and he told me that you can still find a lot of information for making maps. He would be a supporter for a relaunch.
On the topic of pre painted/pre coloured: I like painting and I am happy with my result and would like to improve. But I like the option that some games have pre painted models so that I can start playing the game straight from the box (x-wing, armada). This also gives me time to paint the models for the other games because I don’t always assemble them for the painting and that would make it hard to game with them.
Batman vs Star Wars
https://youtu.be/qv6saLrn3UY
Fight begins at 3:34
NOOOOOOOOOO!!!
The one bootcamp I’d really want to make the effort to attend, and it ends up in December. As a postie, my chances of getting time off on the run up to xmas are about zero ;.;
Very tempted by the dropfleet boot camp, missed out on the open day that was just down the road.
Justin remembers Channel 4 being launched in 1982? That’s a hell of a memory 😉
I was thinking that i thought @dignity had only just turned 30
Was it launched at the same time in every part of the country? Would it have come later to Northern Ireland?
I remember Channel 5 being launched but not being able to get it in the southeast of England for years.
I know, terrible, right?
Channel 5 was a crap signal here in NI but it launched at the same time orI think within a week of elsewhere
Channel 4 was definitely the same release date
You didn’t miss much mate lol. 😀
it would be fun to spend a weekend with you guys, Ronnie and Zombies 😉
@warzan I have the same problem with video games.. that’s why I stick to co-op titles (Check out Clandestine for a neat two player experience reminiscent of Alias or the Division to relieve those Rainbow 6 memories, though the game is best enjoyed in short bursts and without setting foot in the Dark Zone) plus the occasional single player game that HAS to be experienced like Mass Effect or Alien Isolation.
Speaking of Amiga titles, I have this horrible feeling you and Lloyd never played Hired Guns. It was our ‘Doom’ and supported up to four players in campaign co-op or death match. I remember cramming a 200mb hard drive in the case of my Amiga just so I didn’t have to swap disks when we were playing it!
I’m not much of a video gamer but when I do I always play solo. Conversely, I never play tabletop games solo. There’s a social aspect which is crucial to my enjoyment of tabletop games which is lost in a solo game, and I can’t get by playing via Skype or a digital platform either. With video games, I just want to play through the story at my own pace and do my own thing.
Just checked airfares and looks reasonable. I would love to go to the Dropfleet commander bootcamp!
Cheers,
I would note for anyone flying in from mainland Europe it might be cheaper flying into Dublin and getting trains etc up to Coleraine.Its a longer trip but if you on a budget it might be worth considering
On the nostalgia topic I was getting everything you guys said. I was playing magic the gathering when I was around 7 so thats 21/22 years ago and I always, always prefer old art minus probably 2-3 cards (Triskelion anyone 🙂 ), also this is why im so obseesed with having a fantasy faction of there style of faeries and merfolk (lately) But also warhammer fantasy back in 3rd/4th/5th edition this was an awesmone time for me where we would have what was classed as a big game with about 4-6 regiments and a few characters and was awesome to me and the old style of it draws me to runewars. I also enjoyed gothic and have been waiting for a really nice new system to come out that nudged me into the same feeling and out popped dropfleet commander so iv been waiting for that release since kickstarter started (yay so close woop) im all over it :). The only game that has hit me recently well 3 years id say was infinity as it was fresh and gave me a complex system (I like that) but also hit me with nostalgia as it reminded me of ghost in the shell and funny enough some aspects of weirdly final fantasy. With pokemon I used to play red and is still play those DS games to this day granted very rarely though and yes I do play pokemon go haha but rather casually and probably once a week for a few hours. really great topic guys it made my brain oil so thanks!
Really interested on Dropfleet one 🙂
Which is the closest airport? 🙂
Belfast International is closest but Belfast City(George Best,) might be the cheapest
Syfy robots in Team Yankee. Weird WW3. What could be better, the most inspiring part of the show. 🙂
when the infinity rpg arrives the characters are having a contact that is a larger than life northern Irishman who gives everyone’s name a Mexican twist . if your not from Caledonia ,chances are your Mexican. if the characters correct this han solo like scoundrel. he will finish the conversation drain his glass , give them a slap on the back and continue using their new Mexican name .
I fact this character has potential ,i’m going to have fun with this guy.
what is the connection between schaldez oil and warsenal studio b?
what encrypted messages are being broadcast and to whom ?
what’s in it for our mysterious space pirate?
how deep does the rabbit hole go Alice?
OMG, I keep seeing Lloyd in Warren’s face now he has those glasses.
Almost as if they were brothers ; )
Here is my take on a few of the themes from the last 2 weeks.
1) video games – I have an 11 year old son. I still TRY to play some of the newest games with him. He is very good at congratulating me if I manage to shoot someone while he wracks up 20-30. I have not yet been able to get in interested in wargames. They are “too slow” for him.
2) I am a horrible painter, so I have purchased some previously painted and also have no qualms about fielding bare metal or plastic.
3) I have yet to find a single game that scratches all 3 itches ( fluff, rules and minis).
I love 40 K fluff, like the minis, hate the rules (except inquisitor). The marines in the game are woefully underpowered compared to the fluff. Oaks are never “the toughest things in the galaxy and naturally immune to the warp). I love the look of warmachine, tolerate the rules. I likes the fluff initially but find it inaccessible as it I scattered among too many books. Being a big GOT fans, I find the fact that NO ONE has dies in the Warhahorde univers in 10 + years a bit weird.
My latest endeavor is Inifity. So far the rules have won me over. I like the minis but find them hard to assemble. I have not delved at all into the fluff, and really don’t feel that it detracts from the experience.
I don’t like overdesign for 2 reason.
First, as the poster they quote notes, on gaming pieces all that detail is just extraneous. It’s either not going to get noticed on the tabletop, or worst case even obscure what the model is supposed to be.
Second, as a painter I just don’t enjoy the little gribbly bits. They make it harder for me to conceptualize the model, and prevent me from using any interesting techniques.
Morning, all! 😀
So hold on . . . @warzan wants to “bathe me in buttermilk” and “scratch my itch?” Tell you what, sir. Go ahead and “outsource” that work to a couple of Hooters waitresses and you’ve got yourself a deal.
For the record, that’s about what it would take to make me happier than the response to just the first of these BattleTech articles. Yes, please don’t forget there’s at least three more to go.
All I would add to the conversation is a the support for BattleTech on this site and others isn’t just nostalgia. Plowing through the 270+ posts on that thread, plus the 80 or so BattleTech comments on last week’s Weekender, we find three basic categories:
1) “Hey, I used to play BattleTech! What a great game, and even more so, a great universe and setting!” – Yes, undiluted nostalgia. 😀
2) “I have never stopped playing BattleTech.” – It’s not nostalgia to these folks because it’s never gone away, it’s not a “thing of the past.” Catalyst Game Labs has been releasing product, new novels are being published, it had a big footprint at this year’s GenCon, new rules have been released for the shorter attention spans of the present-day market. To say nothing of the Mechwarrior video game series including Mechwarrior Online which, for all its shortcomings, remains a powerful force since it was released (as recently as 2013).
3) “I can’t wait to see what BattleTech releases next.” – this is a big one, with lots of people (including at least a dozen Kickstarter supporters) looking forward to Hairbrained Schemes’ upcoming launch of BattleTech for the PC in 2017. From the sounds of it this will not be a “mechwarrior” type “World of Tanks with legs” game, but a return to the turn-based tactical wargame with Jordan Weisman (original creator of BattleTech) on the team.
I guess my only point is . . . nostalgia is a warm pining for the past. Passion is an energy for the present. Excitement is an optimism for the future. BattleTech definitely has a big helping of the first, but also plenty of support in the other two. While (mostly likely) it will admittedly never be the singular, world-dominating beast it was 1985-95, it has never gone away. It will grow a hell of a lot stronger in the years come.
Just on what will come out for BattleTech next, there’s a strong possibility we will see an Alpha Strike starter box in similar vein to the BattleTech one, set during the Clan Invasion with similar soft plastic Clan OmniMechs.
If anything, that may provide a much better way in to the game for the uninitiated than the current BattleTech box.
OHHHH! Plastic Clan mechs! That THAT would be awesome! Right now I BELIEVE the only one available is the Mad Cat that comes in the BattleTech CGL starter box? The lance packs (great products, by the way, especially for the price) offer a lot of choice, but I THINK they’re all IS mechs?
There were a few rather basic plastic Clan OmniMechs in the 2nd edition of CityTech, 20 years ago. Ebay and a healthy disposable income are your friends if you want it. Yeah, lance packs are all IS so far, all based on the Mechs from TRO 3025/39.
@oriskany If I remember correctly both printings of the Battletech introductory set (CGL did 2.. 3500A in 2011 and 3500B in 2014, the main difference being the sharpness of the mech sculpts. They got the molds re-done) included two hard plastic ‘premium’ mechs, and they were different in each set. So the first printing has the Thor and Loki while the second printing has the Mad Cat and Battlemaster. So thats three plastic clan mechs right there 😀
Forgot about the Loki and Thor, and I have them! They wre actually more like mini-model kits in hard plastic, a lot more detailed than the Mad Cat and Battlemaster, but slightly versized and out of scale.
Yeah I picked up a metal Thor because I wanted the SRM off it but didn’t realise it was moulded onto the torso.. so I made my own SRM and assembled the metal Thor, then put it next to the plastic one. The scale difference is noticable but I’ve already gotten used to such things in the 18 months that I’ve had my own mechs lol
Maximum Overdrive: The Wargame
You’re welcome Ronnie! 😀
@warzan not wanting to be ‘that guy,’ but there was a spinoff to Star Wars in the 80s. An Ewok Adventure was a film I remember getting from the video shop as a wee boy, along with its sequel Battle for Endor.
I remember little about them other than they were about a family crashing on Endor and being helped by the Ewoks and Wicket to escape from some of the other fiercer inhabitants of Endor.
God bless Wikipedia for telling me they were made for tv movies in the US, with the first being known as Caravan of Courage. I can see why they dropped that title for the UK release, as that conjures up an altogether more sinister image of 80s caravanning!
I had Action Force too! My second favourite toy after G1 TransFormers. They were later merged with Hasbro’s GI Joe line in the UK, but before that they fitted in very well with Kenner’s Star Wars range. We used to build battleships and hovercraft for them out of cereal packs and loo rolls. In hindsight, they were a bit rubbish, but to a 7 or 8 year old me, they were mighty.
Thats odd, the VHS we had was called Caravan of Courage.
All I remember was the rental I got repeatedly was An Ewok Adventure.
As far as the whole Robotech vs. BattleTech thing goes . . . There are huge difference if you’re a fan of either / or / both franchises. Obviously, I far prefer BattleTech, but that’s my subjective opinion. The looks of the ‘mechs are different (Robotech mechs with their crooked, spindly, chicken legs), the setting has a vastly different flavor, BattleTech has no “transformers” mechanic where the ‘mechs change shape, the sci-fi is much more grounded, gritty, and grizzled. The art style is very different, and the characters are much more realistic and relatable. They’re soldiers, not anime characters who just stepped out of a hair salon.
Also, the ‘mechs in BattleTech are NOT robots. They are “tanks with legs” as opposed to automatons or programmable “robots” that can actually operate without a pilot. This keeps BattleTech as a “human” story. Lastly, BattleTech includes a vast spectrum of choices for tanks, APCs, infantry, dropships, aeromechs, Vtols, hypertech helicopters, down to militia infantry with little more than a rifle on some outlying, barely-colonized world.
But of course, Robotech has plenty of fans as well. The best analogies, I feel, would be the fan bases of DC vs. Marvel, PC vs. Mac, PS4 vs. XBox 1, US Army vs. US Marine Corps. To the outside observer, the two seem similar, they don’t understand the rivalry, but once you step INTO that world, there’s a huge rivalry that’s hard to avoid.
It doesn’t help that through the 80s and 90s, there were huge real-life legal battles between the owners / creators of BattleTech and Robotech. Suits, counter-suits, regular accusations of copyright infringement, it was actually very nasty. Some of this seems to have bled down into the fan base. I won’t get into it, there are guys in the BattleTech thread who know a lot more about this than I do. Suffice it to say that the “good guys” and “bad guys” in THAT little tragicomedy are pretty clearly drawn. 😐
One minor addendum here. The Original Battletech rules did have a handful of Fully Transforming Battlemechs. They were called LAMs (Land Air Mechs) and were all based directly on Robotech designs (Stinger LAM, Wasp LAM, Valkerie LAM) and each had 3 combat modes, Mech, Aerospace fighter, and the mid point AirMech Mode. They were part of the Unseen so they were removed. They were jacks of all trades and not really good at anything so no one used them anyway. They were revived during the Word of Blake war, again with little to no success even though they added new types.
Possibly the most useless piece of kits ever invented
Warzan you almost made me spit out my morning coffee when you were telling the younger viewers that being an adult sucks. The reason I found the comment so funny is I had just spent a half hour explaining to my wife that I had paid the bills, cleaned the house, and my son and I are driving an hour and a half away today to learn how to play some Guild ball at the nearest gaming store. So what does she say back to me, “pick up milk and bread on the way home, and remember to stop by your sisters house and drop off your nephews birthday card.” Gotta love being an adult. Great show guys.
For me painting is an intrinsic part of the hobby. Indeed, when work gets busy and family stuff takes up a lot of time, painting IS the hobby for me in the hour here and there I can grab.
Having said that, if pre-coloured minis become th enorm for games, I will simply by a few of the boutique minis to paint for times when I cannot play. The hobby has become so vast now compared to when I began, heroquest really but 2nd edition 40K was where wargaming really began for me.
Then, I had a choice of GW stuff or airfix if I wanted to build and paint a model.
Now I have a wealth of minis, not just the enormous number of wargames out there, but of specialists such as El Greco, Pegaso, Ncturna and so on. And instead of just airfix, you have works of art from tamiya, Trumpeter, Dragon, Academy and so on for those kinds of models (many of which we used in our first wargames, airfix tanks and plastic army men!)
No matter what technology brings, the hobby is diverse enough to cater for us all I think, painting is certainly important to me, but it does’nt have to be the models I game with if the market changes.
ronny rentons heroscape anyone
Rather than do the crappiest IP for Ronnie, how about suggesting a hard core inner city drugs/prostitute gangsta mini game in the world of Scooby Doo?
“it is like a finger pointing at the moon , don’t concentrate on the finger or you will miss all the heavenly glory”.
deep and far reaching topic, to answer fully would take us into deep waters. the multiple layers which made the moment and the reasons why it speaks to us.
but to keep it simple yes the new generation of wargamers will look back to the games which were a snapshot of a moment in their lives.
as for the pure experience ,lightning in a bottle. the power of those experiences has all of the above and so much more.
Potters an interesting one as half of its fans were connecting with their childhood even though it was not directly from their childhood.
Warren loves kung fu , yes yes and yes.
“my style, you could call it the art of fighting without fighting”
Happy Sunday!
Good afternoon,
I would like to comment on Warren’s topic about video games. I’ve played video games for as long as I can remember and I’ve been a wargamer for 2 years now. I can honestly say that I prefer wargaming. I got so fed up and bored with video games and you have less freedom as well. Also, I consider video games to be more of a personal thing. You can happily play any game by yourself without the need to play it online with other people. Now, with tabletop gaming, it doesn’t work as well.
What makes tabletop gaming amazing is the social aspect. Getting together once, or twice a week to play games that you have customized your minis and you get yourself immerse into the narrative. My go to games are Deadzone, Malifaux and Frostgrave. I love the lore and the gameplay mechanics. I sometimes even create my own scenarios because these games gives me the freedom to do that.
That’s the main reason why I believe that tabletop gaming is more enjoyable. Even though I buy a game that Mantic, Wyrd, or Osprey created, as soon as it’s assembled and painted, the game becomes mine. I can create stories and I can share these with my friends. One can never do these with video games. You will always be playing the story that the creator wants you to play. I for once prefer to drive, instead of being taken out for a ride.
Take care gamers!
@warzan I did kung fu too! I studied the Wing Chun system, same as Bruce Lee. Still practice it today. What type of kung fu did you do? We should’ve sparred at Grumpy Con lol! And Big Trouble in Little China is a big favourite of mine as well. Last year I got a t-shirt with the film poster on it, it’s fantastic (I’m even wearing another tee with the Pork Chop Express logo of Jack Burton’s truck with his quote “It’s all in the reflexes” under it, as I write this!). Amazing! That makes us kung fu brothers! 😀
On Ronnie and IPs, this sounds like an option to get that Camberwick Green/Trumpton minis game into production!
have you seen the video for Radiohead’s new single, Burn the Witch.
If you’ve ever wondered what the Wickerman would be like if it was animated Trumption style, that’s exactly it. So it should make a fantastic game ^^
I have now :). Camberwick Green would seem ripe for a Lovecraft mash-up too.
Great show as usual folks! I think you should pitch a Jurassic Park game to Ronnie (a bit like a dinosaur Zoo) where player A must build the zoo to contain the dangerous animals (and then feed them) and must spend resources to stop them from escaping on a rampage, while player B breeds the dinosaurs (small ones less time/larger ones over longer time) and tries to escape – you could have tourists as the objective (either eaten or saved), with random events of people falling in to the pens whilst trying to take a photo, bad weather knocking out the fences etc. You could play out all the films as expansions. Imagine the look on Ronnie’s face when you show him your prototype!
its great to see how much people are writing since the community feed back highlights started.
the length of each post has certainly increased and there is more energy here now.
pitch Ronnie the sulivans,
or benny hill.
changed my mind ,got to be magic roundabout
@warzan I agree that nostalgia is going to change with the advent of modern access to media. For my suggestion for a strange IP, check out the cartoon series Centurions: Power Extreme. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Centurions_(TV_series)) It was a cheesy toy driven series from 1986. Watching the first minute will give you an idea of what we were dealing with here. https://youtu.be/U0BF2hGvjfg.
Thanks for the mention. I think @brennon is right regarding his comment about Warmahordes. Many hardcore games go for the statlines. The stories are what keeps us mere mortals invested in a game. If the mechanics are crap, no amount of story can save a game. In that case just make a movie. But a good story can surely help to breathe life inot an otherwise abstract environment.
You can sign me up for the DFC bootcamp right now. Would be nice to come by BoW HQ again.
I did already get way into the kickstarter, so I’m wondering a bit what still to get with the bootcamp starterforce.
@dignity I remember Mask. It was the only show of that era I collected the toys for. My favorite was the bike/helicopter. I wanted one of those in real life. Actually, I still do. 🙂 That’s a nostalgia hit for you.
I guess it’s true that media culture today is more throw-away. Turn-around time for movies and TV is just so much faster than a few decades ago. You’d be hardpressed to even remember the films you saw last year. And then try to remember if you actually saw them on release or just watched it later during a lazy night of Netflixing.
*hardcore gamers.
Made a typo that could lead to misinterpretation.
would love to be part of a dropfleet boot camp! I don’t know if I can swing it, I’m going to Ecuador in November and probably South Korea within a few months after… expensivo.
whats BoW 2?
Website redesign
Electric Bogaloo
*Electric Boogaloo
Thanks for the HD rendering of Ben the Head-never notice that he had blue eyes before. Taped headset, yes. It’ll help when he becomes the next PieFace target.
And Warren, it’s Michael Keaton, not Keating. Even Justin got it right and tried to subtly correct you every time he said that actor’s name.
And I’mm a big fan of WYSIWYG, but for me it’s What I see is what you get. If I see a figure with no arms with which to carry a weapon, you can only say it’s a double amputee. Paint can wait for a few encounters, but for a tournament, show some pride and some effort.
@warzan
Turrican for the win man.
YES!
I bought an A500 last year just so I could play Turrican and Turrican 2 again. Love those games.
I think the nostalgia fix is something you guts have got bang on. We all go back to our childhood and want to relive those great gaming memories sometimes. I think that playing games we remember fondly from the past is the closest we get to turning back the clock.
Oh and yeah……. Michael Keaton IS BATMAN!
Happy Sunday, almost it’s over. Strage indeed, Tim Burtons Batman with Michael Keaton is my Batman too, as it was the first contact with Batman I had. I’m not a fan of Ben Affleck as Batman. But as a former Comic Book Guy (worked for a store for some years :)) I always believed, some comics shoud be seen on the big screen, while others shoud’nt.
And to ad to the nostalgia topic, Asterix was the first comic book I read. But there was never a good game. What a shame.
I really do not think that we will reach a level where a mini cannot be improved by a casual painter. I do not think that some painting steps like shades, glossing etc. will be cost effective. I think there is a sweet spot between the perfect precoloured mini and a great level basic precoloured mini. So it looks perfect to the non-painter and presents a great basis for those who want to improve by washing, drybrushing, etc. or those wishing another colour scheme.
After all FFGs Runewars does not have precolured plastics, but all grey models. So they must think something is to be had there.
errhmmmm…….I believe the correct term is “Nostalgia Boner” I think you will find. But I understand if that cannot become the official name for a segment of the show for reasons to do with having the word boner in it.
For your guys zombie terrain, how about Battlesystems urban terrain!? It’s quick to build and marker friendly, plus it looks fantastic.
when Justin spaced out, it looked like Scott Bakula quantum leaped into Justin and was just about to say “oh boy” when @warzan brought him back lmao 😀
Pre-paints may be convenient and they will prob do pretty well, look at x-wing it overtook 40k in the US, but for me I don’t really look forward to it as then armies will all look the same and un-original.
I think another thing about the detail on GW models is they tend to be easier to paint compared to models with wide open spaces. A model with alot of fine details in my experience can be brought to a tabletop standard with a basecoat, wash and maybe a drybrush or basic highlight compared to models with less detail that require more highlighting, blending and techniques that you need more experience to pull off properly. I think GW knows this and this thought goes into their design process to help build the confidence of newer hobbyists.
Okay – first of all – BOOT CAMPS!!!!!! It may not be the best timing, but I would love to get to either one!
On the subject of nostalgia – memories often come with rose- tinted glasses. I remember Space Hulks initial release and the buzz I got from getting this game of alien huntimg in tight corridors. Then I drifted away from gaming for 15 years and my memories faded. Recently we had the 25th anniversary release. Naturally I rushed out to get it. The minis were incredible, the accessories stirred the memories, but were so much better. Then I played the game – and the feeling of utter helplessness flooded back as you remember why you stopped playing the game – the balance was so off (deliberately so), that unless you were really lucky, or playing a really poor opponent, the Terminators were always at a massive disadvantage.
Remember Bloodbowl? Remember the frustration at failing your first action (a simple tacle by your Ogre against that puny halfling), again. And having to watch as your opponent sets up another perfect play? My memories of BB and the reality are very different. I remember a great game, of hard hits and slick passes. When I play it now it’s just a game of frustration and anger that punishes you for every unlucky roll.
Rebooting games for nostalgia reasons is not always a good thing. Warhammer Quest is my favourite dungeon crawler ever, but Silver Tower is more like the Colin Farrell Total Recall – it shares a couple of minor similarities, but is so different it should never have been made. Prior to WH Quest I loved Heroquest and Advanced Heroqust. I’m not picking on GW here it’s just they were my gateway into gaming – these games are my nostalgia games. And nostalgia is not all it’s cracked up to be.
Excellent show. Found the discussion about nostalgia interesting. I teach 11 to 18 year-olds and I am always surprised by how ready young people are to be nostalgic. I think that looking back fondly and missing things from our past might just be something we all do. I agree with Warren’s point about how the availability of digital content has altered things (a copy of Star Wars for me on vhs tape was a life changer!), but I think they will still yearn for something that is ‘lost’. I wonder what form that will take…
Please vidoe Ronnie in the pub. Would be hilarious as a Christmas treat.
When you started talking about nostalgia I was hit with a sudden urge to stop the video and login Ebay. I then went to look up my favourite childhood toys from the 80’s and 90’s. Boglins (mini ones), Monsters in my pocket (those neon coloured rubber figs), Muscle men, MASK, Manta Force and Battle Beasts to name a few. The miniature toy bug had sunk its teeth into me at such an early age. It brought back fantastic memories.
I miss my Action Force base 🙁
Where are my army divers? All I do now is work my minimum wage job 🙁
a great show guys.
Great show guys, I’m really enjoying the way you are incorporating the community posts into the show, really makes it an interactive thing.
I found what @warzan was saying about Batman Vs Star Wars really interesting and I agree completely. I think part of the success with Star Wars was the way that George Lucas kept control of nearly everything so that the stuff that came out was always considered canon. It helped keep cohesion in the SW “universe”. The same applied to Star Trek, they managed to keep control and everything stayed Canon. It’s interesting that Star Trek has actually had a reboot now, but it does seem to have been done in such a way that it hasn’t diluted the canon, I can only hope that all the Star Wars stuff coming out now does it best not to change too much of the Canon.
Some one made a load of action force 28mm miniatures. Their blog is still here. Its awsome stuff.
http://actionforcevsredshadows.blogspot.co.uk/?m=1
Cheese on Rice! – this might be my Imperial Guard Kill Team 🙂
Along the nostalgia line of the discussion, the one thing that I would buy into strictly from a nostalgic perspective, would be a GI Joe mini game. Not sure how feasible it would be, or what scale would be the best for it, but it would be one for me.
(codgermode)
Nostalgia? You guys are in your 30’s… wait till you hit 63 youngster! Then you’ll be nostalgic for your hearing, your knees, and.. well, can’t say that on a public forum. 😉
{/codgermode)
I find that when I hit a nostalgic mood, I am generally nostalgic for the contacts I made when playing, not for the games. My gaming “hits” of yesteryear” are still around, WW2, Napoleonics, ACW, SF in a bunch of modes, and now I have new periods/systems in which I can immerse myself (Walking Dead, Dreadball). Nostalgia for a thing is not that important. If *you guys* disappeared tomorrow in some interdimensional time space rift, I would be nostalgic for the weekenders….
Speaking of which, where’s Lloyd?
My son and I are very interested in the Dropfleet bootcamp. Nice one!
Gutted…. I would have loved to come to this bootcamp. Have both walking deads on their way.
Oh well, will be looking forward ti the build up.
Can we get some zombie painting tips?
Nostalgia is one of those things that will always change; kids today grew up with different forms of entertainment than our generation. It’s the same with the older generation to our generation. Nostalgia will only work as long as people will want to go back to their days of being a kid/aka a time where things were simpler: “Out of student loans and tree-house homes we all would take the latter” – Twenty One Pilots -Stressed Out
@warzan – 15mm Mechs for Team Yankee would be awesome! I would highly recommend Mecha Front miniatures (http://www.mechafront.com/15mm.html) should BoW like to integrate some of them. I backed their kickstarter a year ago, and I am very pleased with the quality of miniatures. Rebel Minis, Khurasan, and MicroPanzer are also pretty good 15mm ranges with Mechs, but I think Mecha Front has those that would work best in a 1980s Team Yankee setting.
heres an idea for Ronny radio active waste dumped on Wimbledon common resulting in ZOMBLES