Weekender XLBS: How Hung Up On Rules Do We Have To Be?
February 21, 2016 by warzan
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Slogging through some Sigmarines, bloody boring minis to paint,, at least I’ve got Justins overreactions to Warrens cheesy jokes to keep me entertained for a bit.
And if I’m first then “FIRST!”
On AOS, the Grand Alliance: Death book is tiny, it’s smaller than a regular army book, it only has 35 warscrolls and the GA books don’t have a lot of fluff in them, on the bright side it’s only £10 which is pretty decent since its got those little flavour texts and pretty pictures, but it’s no where near the bargain that the chaos book was.
As for Tomb Kings, it’s not surprising they’ve gone due to sales but yeah I and many AoS fans that I know will actually miss them, they had some cool units like the Necropolis Knights, but hey they might go the way of the Chaos Dwarfs and get picked up by Forge World when everyone’s forgotten about them lol
There was no 9th edition of WFB Warren 😉
Happy Sunday, everyone (or . . . Happy I’m-Up-Way-Too-Late-on-Saturday-wee hours of the morning!) 😀
Happy Sunday!
Step 1 cut a hole in a box, step 2 @warzan in a box. step 3 Tazed by US Border Agent. step 4 deported….
Wait those aren’t the words to the song…
I don’t know how many Non-American member of BoW are going to get that reference. Most of them won’t know about Justin Timberlake’s Emmy award winning song from Saturday Night Live. With that said, I get the joke and it is awesome. Warren might take offense at being compared to what goes in the box in the song, but you can’t have everything.
Yes, non-Americans do know that song too. It went kind of viral.
And Warren will probably get the giggles. Just his kind of joke. 🙂
Happy Sunday!
@dignity RE: rivets, you drill tiny marker divots in the plasticard for your balls, then the glue round the edge makes it look hemispherical.
@warzan IMO the weakest Marvel movie is Iron man 2, and it kinda doesn’t have anything to do with the rest of the movies other than introducing Black Widow (which is done again in the first 10 min of Avengers), and Groot won’t be in the starter box co he’ll be twice the size of the other models, same way Hulk isn’t in the Avengers box.
It’s a shame that every Iron Man movie is about some powerful industrialist that Tony has annoyed to the point of madness. If Tony wasn’t such a douche, NONE of the villains in the Iron Man movies would exist. So he’s the bad guy, really 😉
Well, that is pretty much the case in the comics as well. It is about his road to redemption, his over reaction to the use of his technology, etc. In the comics he is pretty much the bad guy in civil war. Don’t know if they will be doing the same thing in the movies.
Happy sunday !!
Happy Sunday! This episode is rapidly turning into a load of ‘balls’, but I’m really enjoying it, best one for ages!
I think the issue of getting rid of the Tomb Kings isn’t them stop making the models but rather that they wrote them out of the rules. This alienates all the existing Tomb King players forcing them to leave the GW world if they want to keep playing that army to go to something like Kings of War to use them as Empire of Dust. Call me crazy but alienating any of your fan base even if it is a small amount is bad for any company. Sure stop making the models but at least let existing players use what they have.
Most of the TK range can be used as proxies for VCs
Are they not compatible with the AOS rules?
Twisted just looks magnificent, It’s one I’ve been waiting for and I’m definitely going to back it, there is so much good stuff there though, not sure if I can back big, but I really want to
Debenhams are out 🙁
My order of Two was returned….
Happy Sunday folks!!
And @warzan, If you want an idea of the sort of villains & nefarious teams Knight Models could put together, I HIGHLY recommend checking out the Annihilation/ Annihilation: Conquest/ War of Kings/ Realm of Kings/ Thanos Imperative sequence for the Cosmic side of things (at least the first two. No Annihilation, no GOTG), and just tossing out some names more linked to the Avengers & X-Men we could see the likes of The Masters of Evil, Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, Hellfire Club, Horseman of Apocalypse, Sinister Six, Frightful Four, Wrecking Crew, The Hand, Hydra, A.I.M., H.A.M.M.E.R., The Marauders, The Purifiers, Kree, Skrulls, Sh’iar, (I could be here all day listing these)
Personally though, I have a hope that KM will eventually release the team that finally sold me on Marvel’s non-mutant superhero books- The Thunderbolts….
Oh, and on the subject of nano-tech, I’m going to share a couple of links courtesy of Rock Paper Shotgun. The first is a fascinating article about under-rated island-hopping RTS Hostile Waters (sometimes known as Anteus Rising), a game where the script is by uber-scribe Warren Ellis, so is razor sharp, and dialogue delivered by Tom Baker on narration duties and the wonderful Paul Darrow as one of your commanders delivering briefings, in a game where Occupy won and a fight is being waged against the last vestiges of the 1% who can’t accept where the world is going… :https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/01/29/hostile-waters-retrospective/
The second is for the upcoming re-release of a game I’ve always had a soft spot for, the late ’90s revival of Battlezone, taking the classic shooter and placing you front and center in a secret war between the USA & USSR in the late ’60s, fighting across the solar system from the Moon, to Venus, Mars and the moons of the outer planets for control of a mysterious and versatile nano-metal. I suspect Warren that it will tickle your Weird World War buttons, if only for the range of gloriously retro vehicles… https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/02/16/battlezone-hd-release-spring-2016/
Great show guys as always 🙂 Rivets @warzan use pin drill to put slight hole into the model then a small drop of glue then drop in the ball just make sure balls don’t go to deep lol
@warzan, the metal canister is preventing the water evaporating, the best thing to do is take a wide tray spread your balls over it and they should dry in a few days.
But what does he do to dry out the stuff in the canister?
Pouring them out onto a few sheet of kitchen towel paper helps them dry out too.
RE the marvel sets, I’m not sure if it’s still going but there was an Xmen vs avengers story arc recently, could be played out with the starter sets for now. Be nice to see if they do mojo though…..
Happy Sunday
Don’t have a choice at getting rules right in my wargames as my main opponent has asburges “on the autism spectrum” and it is a Must to play the rules Right.
I do agree that if you are enjoying a game it should not matter if you fluff a rule and checking the rule book all the time can get teadious.
At the end of the day we play to enjoy don’t we?
The rule of cool Rules!!
This makes more water cooler moments when we discuss these moments and interact with our gaming partners.
This is probably the best way to describe the thing that is a YouTube comment section
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-iUwiefHqM
You’re both crazy. By and the large the Marvel franchises were better the first time around, and Thor and Captain America are no exception. Winter Soldier is good but not a patch on First Avenger, whilst Dark World is a big drop off from Thor. Avengers Assemble to Age Ultron is probably the biggest drop-off.
An AdeptiCon Skype meet-up sounds cool. The only potential issue is the six hour time difference might mean a late night for yous lot.
Haven’t seen Winter Soldier, but Thor: TDW was a very empty movie, wasn’t it? The first was more engaging. Iron Man 2 & 3 are just about MORE wealthy industrialists p*ssed off at Tony for being annoying.
Avengers Assemble is amazing imo. Crammed with zingers and well-defined characters. And the duels are spot on (Hulk V Thor, Iron Man V Hulk… and Hulk V Loki is brilliant).
Regarding Age of Ultron, I was really disappointed when I first watched it. But I watched it again yesterday, and I noticed just how much it gets right. There are so many perfect touches (like Vision handing Thor his hammer. Lovely stuff) and good lines. It falters in the big decisions, though. Ultron isn’t used well (he has a BRILLIANT line about humans having children to “help them end” which gives you a glimpse into a twisted psyche that is never really explored) and the final battle against lots of robots feels like the first film.
But Vision, Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch are really well realised. Aaron Taylor-Johnson is fantastic.
Just before AoU came out, Joss Whedon made his announcement that he was bailing before making the third movie, which should have been a huge red flag. Sure enough we found out later there was heavy studio interference in the final cut. Bits got dumped which made other bits of the movie not work. I’m hoping we might one day get the restored AoU a la Superman II and Nightbreed.
See also the recent Ant Man movie, which suffered a similar fate albeit Edgar Wright bailed before rather than after due to studio interference. The end product often hints at a much funnier movie underneath.
The last edition of WFB was 8th in 2010. Assuming three years ago was early 2013 then that’s about a year and a half before the first End Times books and we’d heard the rumours a little while before End Times.
No company should keep poor selling product available.
Great show guys, I’ve really enjoyed all topics on this one.
Gearing rules I take this view. I’m only human and I make mistakes and forget things, so I know that in games I get so into the atmosphere of the game that at times the rules go out the window. My gaming group are all of the same opinion in that the game is filling in a sandwich, to us it’s all about the social aspect first and having a laugh.
Our group got so fed up with the complications and heavy going that WFB became that when Age of Sigmar came out it fitted right into our groups gaming style. Having said that I’m not into 40k as I feel it has taken the 8th ed WFB route. But after seeing the Dark Angels / Caos battle report I’ve been hooked on getting my army out to play. I do hope GW do AoS 40k as I believe it will still sell the models in the same volumes and I think it will create a better gaming experience to both new and veteran gamers alike.
I absolutely agree, nothing kills a great game quite like a rules lawyer. Sometimes we change the rules or even omit rules completely for the good of the game, sometimes by accident but also sometimes by choice. The narrative of the game is far more important that the rules.
Also, no one wants a completely unjust annihilation just because of an overpowering rule. This can be very demotivating especially to new people to the hobby or to the younger generation.
As for AoS, I think this is a breath of fresh air to fantasy wargaming. What is wrong with simple ? Surely wargaming was simple and it is only with the growth of tournaments that rules have been made more and more complicated. The next generation of wargamers are now in their early teens, an age when many a wargamer started ( normally when they started collecting a few miniatures to play Steve Jackson and Ian lIvingstone’s fantasy games or people buying micro heroics and ros to play large battles). The rules need to be easy fun to play. Let’s face it when we start to do something, we want a simple introduction, you don’t start reading by attempting War and Peace.
Nothing’s wrong with simple. My favourite set of mass fantasy battle rules is God of Battles, and they are simpler than AoS. When I’m demo-ing to two new players, they’re usually fine with 99% of the game by turn two and I’m barely needed anymore. My issue with AoS is not the rules are simple.
Happy Sunday!
If professional refs/umps/sports judges cannot completely comprehend the defined rules of their respective sport amidst the heat of competition, which are probably more than a few of decades old, then how are we mere morals with ever changing rules sets supposed to.
Happy Sunday – coffee in hand lets get watching:-)
When I buy a set of rules I’m mainly buying the time and effort the designer has put into making the rules work. My starting assumption when I begin playing is that the designer has done this and the rules do work. Therefore my starting point is that I want to play the rules ‘as is’. If the rules don’t work well I’ll probably not keep playing that game. Why would I? If I like it and there are just tweaks to be made then once I learn the rules and have experience of the game I can make those tweaks as long as my opponents are on the same page. This loops back to yesterday’s OP discussion and games which do well at OP do have a clear and consistent set of rules that everyone follows. RPG groups are self-contained bubbles (and lack the amount of direct conflict that mini games rules are designed to regulate), so they don’t need this clear and consistent set of rules that all can follow.
I can’t help but think that this is something informed by youtube comments rather than what’s actually going on. From my perspective, as someone who games at home, in clubs, in tournaments, and who runs demos and teaches games, I just don’t see any of this as an issue. If you’re putting out videos and having people make those types of comments then I can see what they would loom large in your thinking. But from my perspective, I don’t encounter this and find the suggestion I need permission to have fun a little odd. Also, couldn’t disagree more about Age of Sigmar.
Fair point on it perhaps being only something spied on YouTube (and tbf forums and comment SE actions elsewhere too)
But do those who take the time to write those comments not exist in reality too, or do you reckon it’s just a case of ‘they would never act like that in public’?
Is it a case of weighing up the experience of interacting with say some hundreds of gamers vs seeing some fairly shocking comments (perhaps many thousands of times)
Either way I do think you are right that outside of Internet land this is probably not encountered 🙂
As for age of sigmar I take it your disagreeing with my (a bulk of those who raged probably never even played it) comment yes? For the most part I do stand by that 🙂
Mainly that the reception of the rules is based on something other than an evaluation of the rules themselves. For 2016 (heck, for 2006) they’re a mediocre set of rules and they haven’t helped AoS’ attempt to be successful. Which is not the same as saying people can’t have fun with the game as the rules comprise only part of that.
I think it’s less a case of people don’t act like that in public (assuming you mean the anonymity of the internet), as it is the context is very different. It’s very easy for me to watch a batrep, spot a rule missed or misapplied, and then comment on that (whether positively or negatively, albeit anonymity and the lack of a direct personal relationship probably makes it easier to do the negative online than in person). It’s very different when you’re playing the game yourself and as you say, you get sucked into enjoying the game and you’re the one missing and misapplying rules but it doesn’t matter because you’re having a good time. I think there’s a big difference between watching a batrep and actually playing a game that spawns a clear disconnect in how people interact in them. If you’re the one filming the batreps then I guess you get exposed to things the rest of us don’t, or at the very least something that is negligible background noise is sent front and centre for you.
Battle for Vedros; dont make a cut down version, make a simple version of an entierly new ruleset and build on that. How long can they patch Rogue trader? It would be interesting to see if you guys at BoW could experiment with 40k house rules and see what happens. Theres lots of stuff in there that is just clunky and doesnt make sense. Perhaps play a game and discuss house rules as situations arise.
Personally id like to try
1. Bolt action activation
2. Zone mortalis enhanced overwatch or reaction fire
3. split fire by leadership testing
4. Shooting beyond weapon range with penalty to perhaps S and BS
among other things … havent played 40k in years but it would be interesting to see how well this ancient game plays with some experimenting. This document has some interesting ideas https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http%3A%2F%2Fplayingtheodds.com.au%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F02%2Fwarhammer-40-house-rules-v1-5.pdf
They could just use the 3rd edition ruleset, its still the quickest and fastest ruleset they have done rulewise, and would be relatively easy to swap over to the newest edition.
It’s not easy in this modern mini-gaming world which is filled with high quality sculpting and art direction for a game to stand out, but Twisted has managed it, at least to my eyes. I own some of the minis and already knew how gorgeous they were, but to see the whole package of minis, terrain, art, and graphic design all together just blew me away.
And will there be any Wrath of Kings filming this week? Finally got my first game in last weekend and am off down the club today to play it again.
Good discussion. Concerning making mistakes with rules, I think it should be thought of as a random event in the battle and not an error in applying the rules, you could even see it as a rule mechanism.
Rule: Any mistake in applying any rule is considered a random event, any disagreement to be settled by rolling dice, cutting cards etc
Also during the game these thing tend to even out as errors are made to the detriment/advantage of both sides.
I remember a really, really bad rule in an old edition of 40K that said, “if you can’t agree on how a rule works, roll a dice.” I mean, WHAT!? Who bother to write a rulebook if you’re going to do that lol. Total abdication of responsibility.
I play Infinity and it has a lot of rules. We never get all of them right. But every time, we get fewer rules wrong. We don’t beat ourselves up about it. We just enjoy the game.
There’s an inherent problem with the ‘if you can’t agree, roll a dice’ answer in that it’s open to real abuse. it’s a license to contest every rule and force a dice roll knowing you’ve a 50/50 chance of it going your way. On top of that, and as you say, it’s a total abdication of responsibility on behalf of the designer. How about instead of rolling a dice because we can’t figure out what your rule is supposed to say, we just play some other game? Sam Mustafa wrote a great column for WS&S which wasn’t about this directly, it was about the romantic notion of the ideal one page ruleset and the types of issues those simple rulesets throw up that he as a professional games designer has to make sure are resolved in a comprehensive ruleset before he can release a game, so as to prevent people not understanding how a rule should be applied.
I think there the total opposite where something like DBM which tried to include every eventually to the point where every comma in the rules became important to how they were understood
I think it’s perfectly possible to write a comprehensive ruleset in 30 or 40 pages. And letting unit stats etc do the rest. Something like Fire and Fury , Command Decision and any of the Sam Mustafa games do this really well
Mainly it’s stuff where the implications of the rule haven’t been thought through and so they throw up situations in which you’re not sure how they should be applied. As you say, Sam is excellent at writing a concise and comprehensive ruleset, and it’s because he does think through the implications of his rules. The ‘roll a dice’ mentality is on the game designer for not doing this.
happy sunday!! I’ll be at Adepticon this year!!
I think before you tweak rules you need to have played them a good few times so you have an understanding that by maybe slightly altering one rule it may have a knock on effect to the game play as a whole
I think the most elegant ruleset I have played is Crossfire. Too many designers seem to think in my opinion that the way to make games better is to add more and more special rules. To my mind if they had designed them properly tested them and n the first place nine of this would be necessary
Sorry that was very bad typing. Hope it still makes sense
Thanks for featuring my man cave guys
@warzan here is some inspiration for your pallet trip to adepticon http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-31700049
I care that Tomb Kings are possibly gone. But probably for the wrong reasons, because I stopped playing (and buying) Warhammer Fantasy 3-4 years ago. Since august last year I play Kings of War and my faction is Empire of Dust (which is the KoW version of Tomb Kings). Since then I went back buying Tomb King stuff. So yeah, I care, but I can understand why they are squatting the range.
On the other hand I really like the direction they are taking 40k. I remember when I was 12 years old and started with second edition 40k. There were some very light scenarios too, 4 Marines against 10 Orks. 1 Marine Squad against a Dreadnaught. That was what me get going into the hobby. In our club, and I hear a lot of other clubs too, we have huge problems with getting young bloods in. If 40k gets a light version and is specially targeted at kids, that means there will be a next generation of wargamers. Of course what GW is doing is not for me, BUT I can grab those kids, after they played 4-6 years of 40k and introduce them to all the other wargames and we will have new blood in our club 😀
So pls GW, go on!
Oh and regarding rules. I definitely go with Ben. Instructional videos have to be VERY correct on rules. Because imho you have to learn the rules the correct way. Once you’ve done this you can start bending the rules to your needs. Because when you feel comfortable that you can get the rules right you have the confidence to change the rules so you and your friends have more fun.
Tournaments have to be very correct on rules of course. Otherwise the system will break down.
I think it’s tough for companies producing a new rule set to cater to everything without making the game too complicated. This is added to even more with the addition of the great terrain that is now available and even the various furnishings you can now place within said terrain.
Some people will be very true to the rules, others will play to the spirit of them. All generally think they are right and often club rules may have to be made as even with testing things are missed or written with the barest ambiguity or blatant mistake which will be picked up by a portion of gamers and maybe taken advantage of.
These days a live site that receives questions raised by gaming clubs/individuals in the community leading to live FAQ would be a good answer but manpower costly as they are flooded with questions some of which will be covered by the rules but the person missed them or didn’t really check properly. In addition with more companies providing free PDF, a live version would negate those problems of remembering FAQ and could be locked prior to tournaments or campaigns so nothing changes during that gaming period.
Good show 😀
Strongest Marvel Movie:
Captain America 2
love how it shows how bad ass Cap and Widow are…until the Winter Soldier shows up.
Weakest Marvel Movie:
Thor 2
forgettable villain and plot.
I am Groot
@warzan it would be good to see something from the BoW 40K segment for a battle report using these new starter box rules and the forces provided. I understand for most it would be a step backwards but for me I am interested in building a collection of these starters for on the shelf purposes and running single day tourneys at our club. We currently still run the odd Kill Team tourney (easy to get a lot of games in a single day) and run longer more complicated campaigns for a number of gaming IP’s but if the starter boxes are reasonably balanced this would make for a great way to introduce our new members as they join while keeping the organisation to a minimum and not too much on the pocket.
I’ll be at adepticon. Meetup would be interesting.
I probably go too far the other way with rules, in that we just ignore them if they get in the way of a good story, So much so, I probably couldn’t play 40K as written if I tried.
Its different with different games though, playing Infinity I never feel like I have to bodge the rules at all, they can be a bit convoluted at times, but Infinity rules let you do all the cool stuff you want to do, and I can’t really think of a situation where I’ve had to deviate from rules at all playing it.
I guess I agree with Ben, rules are a guide, do something else if they get in the way.
Look I was one of the people who pointed our a rule you got wrong in the 40k game. The resone I did it was that it would give you a chance against the the jink save he had. but also I injoy watching a fair fight where clever use of the rules and units can get you out of a tight situation. not allways possible looking at you tau but that’s my aim. So maybe I’m a snob who likes brain against brain more then story so be it but I kinda felt ganged up on on this xlbs if you got this far thank you for reading it
I haven’t watched the battle report yes @stickmanme and haven’t read the comments either, but I thought in this XLBS they were trying to quite deliberately _not_ have a go at you or anyone else in particular. It may have been your comment that got them thinking about the issue, but it led on to a more interesting general discussion about online commenting and applying the rules of games. They did also stress that people pointing our rules errors can be done in good faith and with the intent of helping someone learn and improve. So I hope you don’t feel too ganged up on!
if im honest i did feal a little ganged up on as i did say and your right i was just trying to be helpfull for the resons geven and im sorry i do feel if you are not going to play buy the rules why bother witch is a bit extream i know but i would also say just one desnting openion would have been nice not a white wash wher people that think like me don’t fell like we don’t have a voce in the argument basicly im saying every argumnet has two sides and if you don’t give the other side you do a disservice to your self
Yeah we definitely weren’t having a go at you mate 🙂
But it got me thinking of many hundreds of comments from the past many from folk who didn’t take the time to articulate or engage on the topic.
So it definitely wasn’t aimed at you 🙂
thank you still think the epesoped needed a dissenting opinion though. any way keep making the content I realy injoy it
I will see if we can get @dignity to dissent for us 🙂
Again though it wasn’t aimed at you but more about Pete’s relief of it not effecting the game, and my response of why should he care if it did 🙂
So if you see something please do point it out in future 🙂
0k just back from watching Deadpool … that gets my vote as the best Marvel film no conest 10/10 must see
you have clearly forgotten Dolph Lundgren’s Punisher from 1989.
😉
Not a patch on Matt Sallinger’s Captain America…
indeed
Lol
unfortunately we have not and can not forget that movie.. I have tried
Here is a story on BBC about someone who did travel in a crate.
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-31700049
I loved Captain America 1. Felt Thor 1 was boring and the crappiest of all the Marvel movies.
Couldn’t agree more, game for fun. I think it also goes for the criticism of games also, everybody has different tastes. I for one got the adventures companion for dungeon saga which got incredible grief. I for one have used it as a sandbox and created my own rules using those provided. Just held a game with my 11 year old sons mates, I realised it worked when they started to talk about there own characters. As a famous Xbox advert said it life is short play more. Keep up the fun battle reports
Happy Sunday!
Happy Sunday!
Those people who tend to crush new players are the ones that make me reluctant when it comes to visiting gaming clubs.
There are only 2 rules. No writing on the walls and obey all the rules! Lol
Another fun XLBS! Good funt o listen to while i trudge through my Betrayal at Calth box.
@warzan Regarding the “Are we doing this in our gaming groups” being beholden to the rules- That’s why I stopped playing 40k, I had been doing a combat patrol with a LGS and it was all great, then we did another one with inquisitors and inquisitorial bands and I’d never played a psyker before in the 4 years I’d been playing 40k. So I tried some stuff with psychic powers, as I had read them, and in my first game, everything was going great, my opponent and I were having fun, and the organizer comes over, asks how things are going, I say what awesome thing just happened- and he takes the time to point out that’s not how I should have generated psychic powers, I shouldn’t have been able to do that, and then abruptly walks away for me and my opponent to figure out how to handle it now.
This was specifically at a fluff-centric, friendly event, and was frankly enough to just not want to deal with that group anymore.
Build bridges not walls… well said Warren. I used to be pretty hard into WFB (20 years ago), and 40k (about 10 years ago). I have been aching to get back in, so I bought AoS… and recently bought Betrayal at Calth. I am hoping, as i sit here painting my marines as Sons of Horus that people won’t freak out if I say, play in a 40k setting, and say it’s an offshoot legion who pulled away from the Black Legion or remnants of the SoH before Abbadon took them down the path to Black Legion.
I’ve stayed away from the hobby because I never felt welcome outside a very small group of friends who played. We played first edition Warzone, and we laughed and laughed, and those games are still some of my best gaming memories.
One last note before i sign off… Warren, I LOVE your passion. All three of you seem like very open and kind people, but Warren comes off as particularly compassionate and passionate about the gaming community. I hope, as I slowly make my way BACk into the community in the coming months, that it feels like that, and not like it was when i left gaming behind.
Take care, and have a wonderful week.
That will count Trump out he only does walls? Oops no politics sorry
You can use Loken as your commander then?
Is Loken alive in 40k? or just for a bit a bit after the heresy?
@shamanatdawn Yes I think so Abaddon didn’t kill him on Istvaan he changes his name to Cerberus and joins Captain Garro after attacking him on Istvaan III
@dignity Justin I ripped all the 90’s cartoon series to mp4 from VHS and would be glad to send them to you! I agree that, that was the best version of the x-men!!
and bishop was so badass why don’t we see more of him?
I agree that the x-men minis are the best here and even though I don’t play this game I would love the minis to paint and show with pride on my shelf 🙂
Btw later on did wolverine become that guy with the cube in his arm?
I’m getting old now and have not done comic books etc. in a while, life took over sadly :(.
great show as always guys.
p.s
I’m going northern Ireland on holiday this year and I aint played proper war games in ages, mind if I call into BoW hq?
I am guilty of avoiding hackers in Infinity before I read the N3 rules for them. Afterwards it turns out not to be such a big deal. They are mostly ‘shooting’ attacks with ‘magic’. Could have figured that out a lot earlier and played more games.
On the bright nano-technological future @warzan described: Do you realize we would have to go through Armageddon to get there? Because what would all the 9-to-5 workers do who are perfectly comfortable in their mundane, repetitive jobs? 🙂
But more seriously, such a change would require a massive shift in social thinking. It won’t go down easy.
great show guys I have one thing to say about (@warzan ) @lloyd & @dignity A team & Milk?
fourteen plastic castles! (?)
Build walls not bridges!!
with fourteen plastic castles (?) – build walls not bridges!
sorry- my computer is so slow it freezes and I end up saying stuff twice 🙁
I believe as long as you are trying to follow the rules but make a mistake…it’s all good. But to purposely skirt the rules to make the game suit yourself…that’s crap. Go over to the KoW Fb page and you’ll see that the new motto is eff the rulebook…play by the rule of cool. Total rubbish if you ask me.
Great show. Just a few thoughts…
Knight models are great looking, but let’s not forget that Heroclix is really a great alternative, and though the models are not of the quality of KM, they are pretty current with the comic universes, and a lot of the prepainted figs are pretty dynamic. Considering the topics of this weekend… HC hits collectability, with tournament/game store support, its longevity as a mini’s product is actually a testament to Wizkids’ support of the product and its rabid fans.
I am also REALLY looking forward to your SAGA report during your Viking weekend. I just picked up the Viking starter (I blamed Justin and his enthusiasm!) … Would love to have it painted by the time that weekend hits. The rules for the game look really well done.
A person’s view on rules is an aspect of personality. The key to having fun is to play with people who have compatible personalities, e.g. a common view on how to treat rules. All views on rules are valid. Sticklers for rules have fun playing the game their way…as long as it’s with people of like mind. The potential for discontent rears its head when incompatible views are “forced” to play together, i.e. at a tournament or at a game-store pickup game or league event.
IMO, every person can enhance their own experience and uplift the community as a whole, if each person is selective with whom he or she plays games.
I’m going to be at Adepticon for 4 days I would love to meet up!!
Happy Sunday from the states!!! Thanks again for the excellent content! 😀
Warren,
My wife doesn’t fly either. However through the wonders of Valium we travel between Oz and NZ with very little difficulty. If you want to go to Adepticon, rely on wonder drugs mate.
I try to follow the rules as best I can, but mistakes happen. I try to keep that in mind when playing with all my pals.
Great show gentlemen, my girlfriend always asks me if I’m watching my “nerd shows” come every weekend. 😀 The answer is always yes.
i`ve always played games with friends for fun, and encouraged bending the rules and even experimenting as long as we enjoy a good narrative journey. i think its good to play tournaments to compete through the rules and try to win, but most of the time we should carry on the joy of the hobby and delve in the narratives that we enjoy or our imagination presents to us.
the rule thing reminds me of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GV6sUq7axY
Going to Adepticon. I was the US Mantic Pathfinder that dressed up for the DreadBall demos you guys posted last year. I’m going more DB coach based this year. I’ll be mostly at the Mantic booth for demos again this year if you guys want a meet-up.
@warzan & @dignity, good to know the “care” package are appreciated! And you’re forgiven for not remembering me! Recon means seeing/doing without immediate detection by the enemy…….
The CnC bits will go together like a dream…… I’m looking forward to see how you guys will paint them (I don’t have an airbrush, and have NO F…g idea how I’m gonna paint several flyers, a plasma tank, & a massive drop pod). I’d love to see @dignity construct some sort of sleeve holster for the Gattlinger…. should be amusing!!
On to the subject of Biscuits!
Yes @warzan I will send you more ANZAC bikkies, but you have to 1) ration them, not guts them, 2) share them with your fellow Beasties, & 3) enjoy them!! with your family
Does this mean the package for ANZAC day (25/04/2016) should be delayed till after “THE WEDDING” or not?
@warzan the idea about cutting off the crenelations looks like it’s worked really nicely glad it worked, its a pity I can’t get hold of any of the kits myself for now but I look forward to seeing it at Salute.
Oh Your welcome for the idea but would a mention be out of the question? although I agree saying my nickname on film might be embarrassing.
Ahh it was you!!! No probs I’ll have to make sure you get a mention for that. 🙂
Another great show guy`s, and as usual Warren does not fail to deliver his famous “One Liner`s”.
Marvel Universe Miniatures Game – X-Men, Avengers or Guardians of the Galaxy. Now where these guy`s are concerned, i like the look of them but would`t go out of my way to buy any. I enjoy watching the film`s, and i do as and when i can. Now my kids on the other hand would probably want all of the figure`s, even the bad guy`s and they watch all the film`s more than i do.
If Carlsburg Made Gaming Rooms…If they did we all would have one, and with a bar.
I like the look of Twisted Steampunk, love the mini`s, but for now i`ll look but not touch.
I would have offered but I’ve no space, sorry lads, so when you coming down south???
I, for one, have registered for this year’s Adepticon, having listened to Ronnie Renton wax lyrical the past 2 years and looking forward to talking with him again this spring at the Mantic booth, along with Sean and the gang from Outlaw about Wild West Exodus. I saw Twisted at Adepticon 2014 but have lost my enthusiasm for the game with Demented’s absolute dearth of miniatures since then. They’ve been beautiful but seem to be priced for the collectors/painters, not for actually putting on a table. This new flood is encouraging and better priced with many more available but I’m more interested in the terrain pieces now (for Malifaux and Wolsung).
What are the plans for the Battle of Hoth? Will it be running all weekend? Drop in/drop out?
We will have Hoth running each day, at different times, and yes, it’s drop in and out. 🙂
Some of the ideas today have been quite interesting. Warren’s point about non-financial ranges/games was a great thought provoker. Ultimately most video games just disappear, show up on Steam or something like it in a bargin bin. Miniature games usually only go when the company goes broke (Confrontation, Dust, etc) but when it’s GW they just drop a range or game/s and usually without warning. Squats, Fimir, Man O’ War, Warhammer Historicals, Dogs of War, Kislev, all of the “specialist games”, Warhammer right after End of Times. There’s dropping a miniature line, a games or even a genre but GW just seem to do it so cold bloodily that you can’t help but hate them for it.
Oh and KoW 2nd Ed. I’ve played a few games where we’ve played rules exactly. It’s a simple game in terms of rules. The complexity of the game comes in the tactics.
Great show, it took me a few days to get to it so you have prob all ready got a answer to your drying problem but just incase i’ll tell you how I dry it out. After cutting open the filter i’ll put it in a clear plastic container with the top off and put it in a window where the sun can get at it and leave if for a few days to a week depending on sun, occasionally stirring it.
There was no 9th edition Warhammer, just the End times and codexes. Also there is a major industry that holds on to things that they don’t sell tons of for long periods of time, the car part industry.
Something very pick up and play, like Betrayal at Calth or the new Deathwatch game? Which I can’t believe you have said anything about, their bringing your Genestealer Cult back. Its a Boardgame but rumors say they will have 40k rules in next weeks WD. Its so awesome, I can’t wait.
I don’t think changing rules or making mistakes as long as both people are happy doesn’t matter. In a Tournament where something is on the line and many strangers are drawn from all over then there should be rules and they should be followed but in friendly games it doesn’t matter. I find it fun creating house rules and changing things in campaigns. I mean in Rogue Trader it was recommended to have a Game Master to help create those narrative events and I have found in Campaigns its great to have one to throw in un-expected curve balls. I came to wargaming from roleplaying so to me they are very close, they are about creating stories.
Looking forward to see how the castle ends up.
“Erring on the side of awesome”. I agree, but I can sympathise with those who concentrate on playing closer to the letter of the rules.
Some wargamers are looking for historical accuracy and have chosen a set of rules that they feel gives them the realism they crave. If people then house rule everything perhaps this is why frustration and announce can creep in?
Failing to grasp rules of any game often leaves you at a massive disadvantage.
Computer games have difficulty settings, but understandably most table top war games don’t; which is where I feel house rules creep in.
Is it easier for people to err on the side of awesome that have played RPG / D&D games before table top war gaming?
I have never played D&D but I have heard that if you decide to do something outrageously ambitious and cool with your character a decent DM will find an attribute and a target dice roll to reflect the difficulty and give you a fair chance to make it happen?
Some people demand complexity in their games full stop and frown upon basic game mechanics. I think it is this end of the war gamer spectrum where complaints about strict adherence to the rules often flow from. I’ve seen games called “beer and pretzels” games in forum comments in a derogatory way, as though simpler rules are below them and not worthy of their time. I prefer a simpler core mechanic with it left to me to introduce or improve on levels of realism or complexity through scenarios or narrative.
I think Wahammer 40K looks complex and overwhelming for any young inexperienced gamers. Computer Games use tutorial levels at the start of games to introduce the controls and immerse you into the environment.
I feel that if the new 40K box set has a similar approach to introducing rules as the Infinity Operation IceStorm did, it won’t go far wrong. Operation IceStorm introduced an extra miniature class per scenario until you were playing with every miniature in the box and all the rules and quirks that come with them. Any other approach would have left me feeling as though there was too much to remember and too many traits and quirks wouldn’t have been fully understood and utilised in play.
Warren, just preface your videos with a disclaimer that the video is not meant to present the rules, we’re just having fun, blah blah, etc, etc. Don’t let the trolls get to you.
Late to the party (I was on holiday and @warzan‘s balls were the last things on my mind :D). If you get tired of waiting for those balls to dry, you can get tiny beads that they use for fancy nails.
I got a few sizes, looking for something suitable for 28mm turnips. You can get really tiny ones that’d do nicely for rivets.
Hehe. You’ve reminded me of a laser-cut MDF vendor I was speaking to at a show.He gave me chapter and verse on the failings of Bolt Action. I came away with a few ideas for house-ruling things and how much terrain? Precisely no terrain.