Weekender XLBS: Next Halo Space Game Revealed, More Tanks Info & Mega Terrain Chat
March 27, 2016 by dignity
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![Warcradle Studios Reveal TINY New 10mm Festive Marker! [Updated]](https://images.beastsofwar.com/2025/11/christmas-kyle-main-600-338.jpg)
Happy Sunday!
buy it = quick…lacks imagination
make it=slower ….more satisfying
As I see it it’s much more important to teach new people how to build stuff themselves rather than just buying stuff. No one needs to learn how to assemble a bought kit, a chimp can do that. It requires zero imagination and very little skill. Building something from scratch developes ones imagination and creativity, both skills you’ll have great use from later on. I’m not against buying terrain but everyone should start with doing a few simple pieces themselves.
Building your own terrain = more money for miniatures 🙂
I just started playing the Legion of Everblight faction a few weeks ago. I love how the models look and the background of the faction and characters. Been enjoying them so far!
Happy Easter Sunday
I have neither the talent, time, nor inclination to make my own terrain. I don’t even want to buy kits I have to paint. Before I could buy all this terrain I wasn’t making my own terrain, so the pre-done kits have meant I’m putting a greater amount and a greater variety of terrain on the table. Even if you’re into making terrain, the pre-done kits expand the amount you can do because of the time investment. There is no dichotomy between build it/buy it. If you like to build you still can, but now you can do more, and those of use who don’t like to build it can do more. Just as importantly, the barrier to entry for new players to have nice looking tables has been lowered.
Weird I cannot play the video, it says because of Privacy settings the video cannot be played. What?
Are you watching on an iPhone or iPad?
Its a problem with vimeo, caused by apple pushing out a change to safari
more info here:
https://vimeo.com/forums/help/topic:281401
As BoW (for obvious reasons) wont be making all backstage content front stage (thats what domain level privacy means here) all you can do is use another browser (chrome or firefox) if its an OS X device, if your using iOS your a bit stuffed until apple push out another update, so given their total lack of transparancy on matters like this hopefully will get fixed before iOS 9.4 is out, but it might not be…
That used to happen to me until I figured out that my browser was blocking referrers on BoW even though I whitelisted the site.
no my laptop as usual
I can watch it on my laptop but not my iPhone and I get the same privacy settings message. Apparently it’s to do with the iOS update a few days ago in the iPhone’s case. Not sure why you’d be getting it on the laptop.
@redben its an update to safari which has been bundled into ios 9.3 and also effects OS X
https://vimeo.com/forums/help/topic:281401
Workaround on OS X install chrome or firefox, iOS your a bit screwed until a fix is pushed out
Happy Easter Sunday! And on the terrain discussion false dichotomy much? Although having said that when you used to walk around wargaming shows and see tables of uniquely made terrain it was awe inspiring and really fuelled your imagination. Now you walk around and even with additional parts for building kits it all looks the same and kills the imagination. Plus you guys seem to have forgotten that younger wargamers have a lot of time but don’t have a lot of money, once a kid has got their army for any system that’s pretty much all their funds gone. Expecting them, or their parents on top of that to fill up a table with bought terrain is frankly pretty insane.
it’s a Mac laptop. So odd, because the weekender yesterday was absolutely fine
Yes it’s clearly the IOS update which is not getting the permission to view the hidden backstage content. @dignity @warzan anything you can do ?
Lloyd knows about the problem, as I have had the same problem with my iPad this week after it updated to iOS 9.3.
@tresilliian Its a problem with vimeo, not BoW, vimeo’s work arround is to make all vids public for the time being, i.e. backstage vids would be front stage, not a lot can be done unfortunately until vimeo publish changes as apple wouldnt bother to fix a bug they create in safari they leave it up to others to break there stuff to be compatible, try installing chrome or firefox for OS X, if its not an iOS device, should be using a different keystore as i bet the issue is related to secure key signing…
@nakchak on iPad it is still a problem on Chrome
@robert yes iOS is unfortunatly hamstrung by apples insistence that you cant replace safari as the browser core (or run native code for that matter), so when you install Chrome on ios what you are really getting is a chrome skin ontop of safari, with the google tools optimised and preloaded, where as on OS X its a complete install, with its own browser rendering running native code, the bug itself is rather silly and will effect virtually any service which offers embedding and cares about where the embed request originates from
I can’t view either! “Privacy settings”.
I think pre-painted terrain is brilliant for early gamers and those with lots of other commitments – where they can spend their hobby time on the miniatures and gaming. I like the idea of both – I just don’t think I am creative enough to build from scratch.
Happy chocolate Sunday!
I’m guessing there won’t be an easy in to ‘Tanks’ for existing FoW players – i.e. just rules and cards?
Terrain to buy costs money. Some fantastic terrain and buildings that in an ideal work would coats more than the armies. I for one can’t afford to buy terrain. But I can make a decent model that satisfies my needs as a gamer. The soldiers are the thing, but that a house is an exact copy of a French chateau.
Same in any era – With practice you can make great, affordable, and effective terrain. It’s also another satisfying aspect of the hobby
We are of the same mind @applemak . My husband makes great terrain at an affordable price, which allows us to purchase more armies 🙂 And it is quite satisfying when you make something for the gaming table and it looks really good.
Nice to see Footsore get some love. They have a great range of minis. Love their Dark Age Irish. They just need to release the Irish slingers they showed last year!!!!
In regards to the remark about there not being many people that sculpt miniatures ; I have to because what I like is too obscure and niche to seemingly have any market value I’ve found…I also sometimes just feel the need to make everything from scratch too, it’s obsessive I know….
The more I’m hearing, the more irritated I am becoming on this terrain thing. For example the Iapygian kit provides ONLY five buildings for Infinity – which needs a multitude of buildings given the nature of the game. It costs £176. For a really effective Infinity table you will need twice that number of buildings, minimum plus all the accessories. So who can afford to spend £400+ on terrain just for ONE game? Add to that a 4×4 battle mat at £40+. So approaching £450/£500 JUST FOR THE TERRAIN for one game?
The buy it, buy it option is just NOT available to everyone.
When we tried out Infinity we used a few Sarissa buildings and printed out some smaller crates and barriers onto card. Worked fine, the outlay was under £100, and we’ve used the terrain for several systems. Had we had to build it all ourselves then it just would never have happened.
Hi. I agree that some things can be created in card etc. I use card for my 6mm and 10mm games, for example. At 28mm+ scale I am less convinced, but have no problem. I think the cards in the Infinity Icestorm starter are fine to begin, but I’m not sure how well they will stand up to repeated use. For any of the games requiring a ‘busy’ table (Infinity, Wolsong etc.) the need for many buildings, woods, fences, walls, crates, etc. etc. becomes for some people (myself included) simply far too expensive for one game system.
If a more ‘generic’ building can be used in several systems, great. But these are few and far between (IMO). Building your own terrain can be another enjoyable aspect of the hobby, which frees up funds for figures.
At the end of the day, you pays your money and makes your choice.
Indeed. Build it/buy it isn’t an either/or. We used the cardstock terrain for smaller items and several years later they’re still holding up. Over time we’ve accumulated terrain from GW, PlastCraft, 4Ground, Antenocitis, Tabeltop World, and Micro Arts Studios, plus a few mats too. The overall outlay runs to several hundred pounds, but it’s been spread out over a number of years so the individual hits have been under £100 a time, and we can put together a table for just about any game from a relatively small selection. I’ve been gaming for a long time, and before this it was either game at a GW store or a club, or make do with a grass mat and some hills and trees. In over two decades we never once built any of our own terrain. You’re either into building terrain or you’re not, it doesn’t come automatically with being a gamer. So if you’re not then ‘buy it’ is a great boon. If you are then great.
Unfortunately, I am getting the same Privacy message when trying to view this through Safari on my iMac. Anyway to fix this issue? I have not encountered it before…
@dcurtis install chrome or firefox, apple have broken safari with latest update
https://vimeo.com/forums/help/topic:281401
thanks for the link. I very much appreciate being able to read why the issue is taking place. And, best of all, now I get my Sunday fix (not saying this is a problem, but I think I started to shake a little when the video would not fire up…)!!!
Cheers!
I think a combination of making your own and buying terrain is the way I am going to go as I like to convert both terrain and models.
Happy Sunday & Easter.
Worked a charm, Chrome it is.
Excellent, glad its resolved for you, shame for the iOS users out there….
personally terrain kits leave me cold without a lot of customisation, sure use them as a base for making something but box fresh not for me. But then given a choice i will always make something over buying it, seeing as i have built 3d printers and compressors in the past it would be unlikely for me to be pro off the shelf anything especially terrain, its the one thing i think that really lets the personality of a modeller shine…
I like both buying and making terrain. Anything I’ve got from 4Ground gets weathered, so it’s my own. Mantic’s Deadzone stuff is awesome as you can build it how you want, and paint it how you want. GW terrain is easy to convert. I’ll be buying the new castle from Renedra. There is too much good stuff out there to restrict yourself to one camp or another!
I tend to buy scenery which is useful across several games which is why I never managed to really branch off to scales other than 28mm.
I’ve started to build my own scenery more now but still buy stuff that takes my fancy. I think I spend more time on scenery these days than figures. I bought a load of the Mordberg buildings last year at salute and loved them, but I may try the sarissa precision for my ww2 European buildings as they are half the price meaning I can buy twice the number..
Ahhhh..it’s Sunday, time to relax…. I have a coffee in one hand and a Krisoy Kreme donut in the other, with the other five in the box next to me…now for XLBS…
And then Justin goes “there are not too many people sculpting their own miniatures”.
WHAT HAVE I BEEN TRYING TO TEACH YOU? 🙂
Hear hear, but even that is a lot of stock items being put to good use, rather than starting with just a wire frame, and some green stuff
I love to make my own terrain but with time constraints it is just simpler to buy kits in…
Happy Easter …
When it comes to terrain I have over the years attempted to make stuff and just lost interest and prefer painting the mini’s. So when it came to going into 6mm i decided to look at buying stuff as it was like a couple of quid for a building so it was affordable and painting them up is easy to do.
My next step involved Dropzone, it comes with great card bulding and that was cool, and yes i have seen the 4ground stuff but as cool as it looks it is just way to expensive( and out of scale apparently with dropzone buildings so i heard from someone at the invasion). It was not until i was at the last Invasion and saw the amazing buildings for Dropzone by Dark Ops and found out the prices for them I realised actually it is worth getting some terrain so as well as getting the Dark Ops building which look amazing started looking around that i came across Blotz who do some lovely 10mm terrain:-) Anyway I am firmly in the camp of buy your buildings and paint them yourself:-)
Interesting about all the stuff coming out of Halo I wonder how it will fair against Dropfleet when that comes out.
Thanks for dropping those names. Blotz is going into my favorites list. That could make a good looking DZC table for a reasonable price.
They make some quality buildings, and rather modular. Dark Ops make more center pieces, for DzC.
Warmage from Germany also make some great DzC terrain
Happy Easter
The clock in the car is correct again 🙂 🙂 🙂
Happy EASTER Sunday!
Good show guys. I’m a build your own terrain person. Mainly because I don’t want to spend the money. (But learning how to make your own terrain good is a great skill to have)
happy sunday! about building terrain, Justin you are absolutely wrong. I not only agree with you I am doing it for last 2 years with my little one and she love it, she can decide what we do what kind of materials we use, colors we choose and so one, she decide she create not following stupid instruction changing her in to robot, do that do this.
On the Terrain issue – due to time constraints, i find pre=paint terrain a godsend, as if i have the spare time i prefer to spend it painting figures. That said, i tend to ‘add’ to commerical terrain, but now only buy pre-paint so it goes straight to table.
I just wanna say that I love to hear John talk about tanks. I’m interested in military history as well as tabletop gaming & find his knowledge of mechanised warefare both entertaining & informative. #Johnforemployeeofthemonth
WOO! 😀
Thanks for mentioning Blood Eagle guys 🙂
Justin, we shall be running participation games at Salute 2016 on table GF17. Alongside a Blood Eagle board there shall also be boards for Daisho and IHMN Gothic.
As you are fan of Vikings you’ll love the Blood Eagle board. The scenario is set in Kattegat as Ragnar Lodbrok is chasing Jarl Borg. The treacherous jarl with a small number of his men are trying to escape to their ship. The only thing between them and freedom is Lagertha and her shield maidens.
Will be by to take a look
@johnlyon – what was wrong with the Cromwell? Or why didn’t the crews like it? It’s a shame as it’s a cool looking tank!
I agree with Ben and John re: terrain. Home made stuff when done well is really inspiring, and really makes you feel you are righting over somewhere unique, that exists. Playing over bought terrain makes it feel like you’re playing in a shop with kits. That said, bought terrain is much, much better than nothing, and hopefully can be a springboard to customising your bought terrain and building your own accessories and perhaps eventually whole new bits of terrain.
It’s not a problem if homemade terrain is pretty bad to begin with. It’s the same with painting miniatures. It’s a hobby that some people do for fun as well as for the fantastic results they get at the end. And as with painting you can learn some new skills and become very accomplished.
Again, there is a lot of stuff to help these days, from weather powders to inks, to airbrushes, etc. So bought / homemade isn’t an either/or.
That 4Ground Jesserai terrian still leaves me cold. It’s odd, because nearly everything else I’ve sene them do is amazing.
Ah, a fine question you pose about the Cromwell! I shall try my best to add some perspective to this 🙂
In the early war stages, the likes of the A13 Cruiser and Crusader, the crews all complained about three things,
Reliability, a lack of armour and poor crew access hatches.
Of these early issues, the Matilda Mk2 seen to armour and to an extent, reliability. (more by accident as it was an “infantry tank” which are designed to be slow and to take punishment.
When the Cromwell entered service, the British had already faced the likes of the later model Panzer IV and early model Tiger 1. They knew what the German guns could do. The problem was one of what I like to think as an inability to adapt old doctrine to new ideas.
So the Cromwell was considered a “Cruiser” tank. With a focus on mobility. The firepower got a boost in the form of a 6Pdr gun (equivalent to the US 75mm on Sherman) But as is well known in the tank world, this gun was not capable against the heavier German armour. But I digress.
The Cromwells chief flaw, and one which many British tank crews became quite vocal about, was the crew hatches. They were still far too small (on Cromwell you had to enter the turret by dropping down to waist height, then putting one arm down, dropping your shoulder, then raising your other arm up and slipping right down in. The driver hatch required the crewman and nearly enter the tank on his back.
As can be imagined, they since of being trapped in the tank made the crew unsettled, and if the tank was hit and caught fire, you had a very hard time getting all five men out before the fire spread, usually causing ammo to cook off.
The armour as well angered the crew, it was still vertical, flat plate, that offered no deflection value, so nearly any anti-tank gun of the later war period had no issues in getting through it.
However, the tank isn’t all doom and gloom, it had, for the fire time, a down-rated Spitfire engine in the shape of the Rolls Royce Meteor. This gave the tank insane power to weight ratio with excellent torque. This tank was fully capable of hitting 30-36 Mph off road if pushed.
There is a BBC documentary that covers the history of 5RTR (5th royal tank regiment) and a lot of the veterans interviewed are very vocal about their dislike of the Cromwell. With quotes like “Hadn’t they learned anything of our experience in the desert?”
Hope this helped 🙂
@johnlyons – indeed, thank you very much! What a shame Centurion didn’t come out in time. That’s another great looking tank.
Happy Easter guys!
I’ll admit I was laughing all through the terrain discussion. Why make terrain? Well, why do anything when you can pay someone to do it? Making terrain is just another part of the hobby, like painting the miniatures. It suits some people, it doesn’t suit others. Neither camp is right or wrong. It’s like a Lego argument – instructions or free build.
I personally do both, depending on how I feel. Some games out there aren’t catered to as much as the big names. For Dead Man’s Hand Down Under, I’m building some Australian style terrain pieces, because the ‘official’ ones are for the Wild West. Having had the privilege to go to Australia visiting friends, the Wild West ones no longer feel right to me. I don’t get the Aussie vibe. For Infinity I can see where Justin’s coming from, the vibe is for a clean replicated anime style environment and factory produced terrain suits this as it is uniform; it is clean.
Think about modular building kits, I think these will be the way forward for a number of reasons. Go back a few weeks to Dropfleet Commander and the space station kit. If they produce a space station then players will buy a space station; if the produce a kit for a space station, players might buy more than one. The same would apply to buildings. 4Ground produce some great buildings but consumers are generally only ever going to buy one Stoic Arms or one Watchtower. On the other hand, Mantic’s Deadzone terrain kit is capable of selling more than one copy to a consumer. It has variety.
Making your own terrain pieces is never going to die out. It will become a smaller part for some. For those interested, Paul Davies “Battlefields in Miniature” is a great book for seeing some of the techniques to building your own terrain.
As a final aside, I still have a Linka kit which I use for make some terrain pieces. My father bought it me for Christmas 35 years ago.
Happy sunday!
Terrain…. Whilst some people enjoy building their own terrain as part of their hobby, I hate it and get bored, I have no inclination to build my own, so I’m all for buying it!! 🙂
Happy Easter
Vid doesn’t run on updated iPhone 🙁
Anyhow, this Halo business excites me more and more. Fighter action is totally up my lane and I love the IP. Looks as if I will invest heavily 😎
Happy Sunday!
Three points on the terrain discussion ….
1. The golden age of terrain? I really hope not!
2. Terrain building is a hobby in itself, just like painting, sculpting, fluff writing, game design and everything else that makes up this hobby. The hobby just encompasses all of them to varying degrees depending on the hobbyist.
3. Is terrain building a dying art, not if my subscriber growth or the interest in your hobby labs is any indicator of the interest in terrain building.
Dude, 3 points
1: Great and valid points
2: Love you youtube
3: Stay cool
Another good show.
Had no problems with this on my iPad. But had loads of problems getting front stage to play.
Happy Easter guys. That discussion got a bit hotheaded. 🙂 One important factor in buying or making terrain is whether you have more time to spend or money to spend. People will probably choose the way of least resistance for them. For many that will probably be to go the buying route.
I think buying and making terrain can supplement each other quite nicely. I’ve bought a big box of Mantic Battlezones for example. When the Flamestrike campaign started that finally encouraged me to make a fixed set of terrain out of it for Infinity. But to break up the board even more I handcrafted a box full of paper origami boxes. I could have bought a bunch of pre-made crates. But that would have cost me a small fortune. Besides it was also fun and easy to make while watching a movie (or the Weekender).
Buying terrain can speed things up and guarantee a nice looking table. But I still think a personal touch can make it that much better. In that way I agree with John and his Playdo argument. Have people think for themselves to stimulate creativity and not just blindly follow the manual. You may start out making rubbish, but eventually you should learn a thing or two.
In regards to terrain as I mostly play in 2 and 6mm it’s just as cheap and easy to buy at low cost than to make it myself. Though I have made hedges,walls etc
Happy Easter Sunday.
The best combination is to build your own terrain, and buy some of it to support those companies you like. Modifying kits and making from scratch is the best way to use your imagination and have something you can be proud of. I love making things out of foamcore and insulation foam, but I also love building MDF kits with wood glue! Ha, it’s carpentry for weetoy soldier-mans.
Happy Sunday Guy,s
ok for the ready building’s VRS do it youre self i would go for ready Building’s not necessery because i can not do great and nice looking building’s but because time missing , i don’t have a lot of time for my Hobby so if i can get ready building’s it’s a Big + for me so i can say that i am in the Buy it Camp 😉
Ben’s right. Justin just doesn’t understand the importance of letting a child create something of their own, to use their imagination and creativity, regardless of how the end result looks. It’s like saying a child shouldn’t bother to draw or paint because the end result will look awful and that they should take a photograph instead because the end result is quicker and looks better.
Of course having terrain kits to help a kid (adults too of course) get started so that they can play their games makes sense as it saves time. But that line about “when I was a kid and made terrain it looked awful” is ridiculous, because didn’t you enjoy or learn anything from that experience? Or did you just give up like a lazy sod and not bother again? By just giving a kid the easy option it fosters a lazy approach to all sorts of things in life, it stifles creative thinking and creates a person who can’t think for themselves or solve problems, or one that can’t be bothered to do so because of the easy options available.
It’s not about having the talent or skills to make things off the bat, it’s about using your damn mind to solve problems and think for yourself and to be creative. If you can’t grasp that then you’re a lost cause. Bloody hell.
I’m going to have to give it to Ben here. The uniqueness of a “One Off” set far and away out does the prefab of purchased prebuilt systems. There are merits to both but the prefab set although likely more aesthetically with its perfect lines does have the ring of the Fred Flintstone back drop.
I love some of the manufactured kits, I own the 4 ground stoic arms and will have the antenocities panda noodles shortly.
I also love the wolsung scenery and a load of other pieces too but I’m not in love with them enough to to buy them. or as With a lot of manufactured scenery I’m left thinking I could make that so why spend out the money.
If you have the time you should try making your own terrain, it’s the 4th quarter of the hobby for me. (Painting, making, playing &Terrain).
Some won’t like it and that’s cool but with a few simple techniques, you can make nice terrain for a lot less than you would pay for kits.
Made-from-scratch terrain is more cool (Llodyislavia, as you all mention, being a great example). This minimal effort stuff is great for people like me, though. In terms of cash and time to throw at a project, I’m way more short of time.
Otherwise I’d never get any terrain made.
Happy sunday!
I don’t have the talent to make big terrain so, i’m more into buying them but, i do make some scatter/objective terrain from time to time
@johnlyons face at 37:58 is a picture. 😀
I’m in the make it camp for the most part (as in I have never bought pre-painted), even when I’ve bought some MDF kits I’ll still paint them and make them unique and distress parts differently when a repetitive element gives the Flintstone Syndrome.
In my personal opinion kids shouldn’t be in a position to buy enough premade terrain to fill a board in the first place as it is far too expensive on top of models and I agree with John that it completely ruins the use of imagination/ creativity. They need to start from bean tins and then they will appreciate it when they can buy add on kits when they start earning.
Happy Sunday Night guy`s…………………
Liking the look of the Dark Age Heroes figures, they have quite a nice range going for them.
The Blood Eagle, i know what you mean Justin. I`ve watched “Vikings” and i must say i`m well impressed with it so far, may even consider getting the book and start playing some game`s. May even get my grandson interested in playing……………..
The new release for the Legion of Everblight is a really nice mini, as are all the releases for the Legion over the year`s. As i`ve not bought any new Legion in quite a few year`s, i`m wondering if i should finish painting what i have and use the as a display force. Or put them on E-Bay or on here and put the funds toward`s what i now collect and play.
As i see more and more on “Tank`s”, i`m wondering what force to go with. As i have 3 Sherman`s and 2 Stug`s for the starter set of FoW i`m stuck on which side to go for, or maybe as the game`s geared toward`s just smallish type encounter`s i may just collect a force for each side.
Nice work on your Wolsung SSG gang John, liking what you`ve done with the “Robot” dude and adding “The Pinky and the Brain” that`s what is known as a “Master Stroke”.
Building Terrain Vs Buying It : I`m in the middle, i like making “Terrain” and granted it can take a lot of time, but at the end of the day i can sit back and know i`ll have something nobody else has. On the other hand with how long it take`s to make your own terrain (which these day`s is less and less due to life commitments) will dictate if you just go out and buy it instead. So for me it`s a case of, if i can get some free time i`ll make some and if not then it`s buy some. Either way i`ll have some great looking “Terrain”……………..
Halo Fleet Battles Interview: After watching today`s show, i`m a little more inclined to “Buy” Halo Fleet, which in turn mean`s getting the ground based game as well. Only time will tell if i submit to the pull of some more new “Plastic Toy Mini`s”……………….
great show guys I think a mix of home made & premade stuff would be a great alternative?
I like making terrain. I have a big box of the mantic stuff which I guess is half way between buying and making it yourself but I don’t have any space to store it if I put it together. It makes me sad.
Also, I love the Vikings show, but I don’t think we should put too much faith in its usefulness as a historical document! The whole blood eagle thing isn’t agreed on as something which actually happened outside of sagas and the like.
Or even if Ragnar existed
Buy or Make terrain? They both have their uses. I love the prepainted stuff for 15mm but have plenty of stuff (scratch built and kit bashes) that I use for 28mm.
Happy Sunday. Loved the golem John painted. Not looking to get into another gaming system but damn I want that “mice” golem for my collection!
On the subject of buying vs building terrain:
I went in on the Deadzone kickstarter and bought the core set and a Ruins battlezones set. I’ve been putting of painting it ever since until this weekend (following this guide: http://whiteswolves.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/deadzone-terrain-speed-painting-guide.html). Not including cutting and washint tim, I am 3 days in and am about to varnish it all off and call it done. 3 days working 10-12 hours a day, with no room for anything else. I’ve made a mess of my house in the process. I could not have done this without a 3 day weekend or a dedicated weeks holiday as it was not a job I could walk away from for a weeks work. It was too big and messy. I am glad I did it and I enjoyed the experiense but I would not volunteer to do it again if I had an alternative. I do not have the time to spare. And this was a kit. If I had to build from scratch using my own designs I might enjoy it but I’d never get it done. If I could buy premade and prepainted without breaking the bank (I’m a little broke right now) then thats they way I’ll go in the future (Although I’d love to build the 4ground stoic arms). Premade might be costly, but if we assume I take home £50 a day at work then my time is valued at £50 a day and I invested £150 worth of time in to prepping the battlezones, along with the initial costs, and I’m not done yet. Could I have bought a similar amount of terrain for that?
I’m assuming BoW is your only jobs, so I suspect that in the time/money debate on buying vs building you think about things differently, as building this stuff is part of your job. You are also far faster at this stuff than I am, and I suspect more so than a lot of the community. John said he got that wolfsung set painted very quickly. I’m lucky if I can get a Warmachine solo painted to tabletop standard in 2 days dedicated painting time. So far this year I have only painted 33 individual models,with 5 more almost done and the Deadzone terrain and I was unemployed in January. If I hade more time on my hands I’d be up for making more stuff myself. However Time as well as money and interest is a major limiting factor. I can only get so much done and Ive got 100s of unpainted models and I want to actually find time to play too.
It is important to debate the build it buy it argument. My opinion is that this is all hobby and not buying. If we continue to just be consumers we have the reins of creativity and dynamism to an elite few (most case scenario). Is also probably very important to state that those elite mordant than likely would have their education beginning in the build it camp. I don’t agree with Justin comments regarding the primacy of a good looking table, it’s slightly elitist and perhaps arrogant, and if I hadn’t watched BoW almost religiously for over a year, I would think that Justin maybe the type of person who I wouldn’t want in my club (from that point of view; although he appears to be the opposite. Success in Wargaming, and in fact every facet of life; is about is about the accumulation of experience. I will stand by for you to delete this post as how have done previously
I prefer to buy buildings because in general they are more detailed than if I had made them myself. I prefer to make smaller/simpler terrain pieces like tree planters and roads. Plus I like the smell of MDF 🙂
I,m having a lot of fun making terrain. But the key word here for me is enhance.
For BA, gathering sets of plastic houses, walls and so on and enhanced them. I feel they are unique, Also mixing them with lots of any home stuff you can find in the old school fashion of making terrain. And of course lots of green stuff and putty.
I don’t normally leave comments, but felt I needed to this time. I used to play D&D many many years ago and used to create all the dungeons etc. Now I have started playing wargames and as I am on a pension have started making my own terrain as I can not afford to buy too much. I have just finished making my own wound markers by printing my creation onto a label and then sticking it to the foam base from a shop bought pizza. I have to say I go immense satisfaction looking at the finished markers and can’t wait to show it to the lads on club night. I understand not having the time and buying in terrain. But I am sitting here after just finishing my markers feeling like a kid on Christmas day. You can’t buy that.
I am in the make it yourself camp. It is cheaper for me to make, no exchange rates, customs charges & shipping cost. Sure my first buildings & such will not look as good once I get the hang of building. But either I can redo my first buildings & such or as I know there are run down areas in any city or town. One just has to ask one self, why go out & buy ruined buildings when one’s first few buildings look ruined or run down.
I love custom terrain but just don’t have the time to make any myself and usually just buy what I need.
You need both with out a doubt, but tables that are completely bought are imo boring just like pre-painted minis. Yes you can get fairly decent looking terrain layouts with just bought terrain but they will never be truly amazing like what you can get when you get good at scratch building. The best looking tables ever are a combination of both bought/manufactured kits and scratch building. If there was only bought terrain it would stifle one of the greatest parts of this hobby, expression thru creation.
Really don’t have enough time to paint my Minis , so buildings are not my prioriry.
Justin talks about the negative aspect of not having a good looking table with everything in the right place. Justin you don’t base you models???? Also a kid doesn’t have hundreds of pounds to spend on terrain; at least mine don’t. I on the other hand have access to thousands of pounds, and I still would prefer to make terrain than buy it. I don’t have any time to make it, but it is still fundementally important that buy it remains forever second (albeit a close second) to made terrain, as a unified opinion of the wargaming community. Now we don’t live in North Korea so we are all entitled to our own voice; but surely you must see that building terrain is far more holistic than buying. Please reply.
ah monday morning perfection, weekender xlbs
great show guys 🙂
Tanks looks absolutely amazing … Just too many good games for my tabletop and wallet to be able to handle …Great job as always!!
Really enjoyed the Buy-It vs. Make-It discussion. I tend to buy human made stuff, like buildings and vehicles and so on. Then i create the environment around it myself, the nature, the dirt roads, etc. to bring it all together.
I prefer a combination of buying terrain and building terrain pieces. As a modeler though i tend to build my own terrain. On the other hand buying something, saves you a lot of time. I guess you have to find the ballance between money and time – experience.
Terrain. I vote with Ben. Yes bought stuff is fast and getting better all the time, but not having pieces that you know you built with your imagination and love and care just leaves a table kind of soulless. How can people really afford to cover several square feet in shop bought ready painted stuff anyway? Yes you invest in time making your own, but terrain building for me is a pleasure, not a chore. If we don’t encourage terrain building to be part of the hobby we could see people feeling that our hobby is elitist and that it is only geared towards the wealthy few who can afford highend terrain. Another massive factor is that bespoke terrain has always led to excellent narrative in my gaming. Everyone at Beasts of War comments that they love narrative to drive their games. Terrain building and the imagination that inspires it should be cultivated and enjoyed, else we will be the last generation to remember this fun side of the hobby.
See the Teseum recycling plant forum feed that I started and checkout the Operation Flamestrike battles that developed from one terrain idea.
Great weekender.
Happy gaming.
We’re big boys, we can understand the concept that you filmed it all in one go (ie. the Halo interview). You don’t have to pretend like it’s actually the next day. 🙂
Great shows guys. Can’t wait for Halo ground game!
Sorry John and Ben, I have to disagree with you on the kids argument. As the father of two kids, I can only speak for my own children, but they both would have been very upset by not turning out something. That’s actually a really good way to turn them off of gaming completely.
Great Job no tose monos for wolsung.
There was so much ego and big headedness in that terrain discussion.