April 25, 2014 by lloyd
You may have seen the epic 4th War Equipment Corp gaming table in the news recently. Well we got a little surprise this week when we went out to film the Weekender in the form of this awesome flat pack set. Obviously, we just couldn't resist the urge to show it off and let you guys see how we feel about it.
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Take the middle section and turn it sideways and you could use it for a Pegasus Bridge type layout. Two sides of a big river.
If it wouldn’t be paper, it would be good, but like this I can’t see surviving long. But like that it isn’t worth a damn.
It’s not paper, it’s cardboard, and the solidity has been demonstrated. If it’s durable enough, it could last a year or two. Cardboard furniture does. If the price is right, it’s worth it.
Cardboard is Paper. It’s just thicker and listed as a paper product. Though more durable than “paper” it will suffer from the same elements that paper and even thin soft woods will.
I would not want to buy this if I lived in a humid climate.
.
Do you live in a humid climate ? Do you by any chance risk spilling any liquid on your gaming table ?
I rest my case.
I live in a humid climate for about 5 to 6 months out of the year. I don’t drink on my gaming table and my is made of solid Oak.
I am a wood worker and have worked in the timer industry for many years. I know more than a few things about the properties of wood, paper and cardboard. It’s my job.
Also, cardboard can be made impermeable through varnish, and you’re never going to game under a rainstorm.
you can protect card board with various sealants such as the case with many boxes used in produce. But rain fall has nothing to do with it, nor with my comment of a humid climate. Cardboard is not wood, it’s not closed off like wood. There are open walls in cardboard which is where most moisture in trapped and causes sagging in card board, not the outside.
agreed, and even fresh it looks flimsy, too much wobble, 3 pieces of 2×4 MDF will pack in a tighter space packed away and is more stable when laid on any existing table. Another thing I see as an issue with this is the legs are solid, it does not allow for a chair, and some do like to sit while waiting for the other player’s turn moving IG or gaunt armies for example 🙂
Want want want
Such a good idea. Hope the price won’t be out of bounds. Hope they will add some kind of support structure or links or whatever to make this thing more stable. Seems quite shaky.
I wanted to see more. Now I get to see more. With so many doubts it’s just what this product needed a good independent review by gamers.
Is really good for someone that lives in a department or want to be able to have 6′-4′ and 4′-4′ tables.
The only two things that i think it needs to add is a plastic surface on the table itself or something that is water resistant.
The second one is a better connecting systems, maybe velcro rather than magnets is cheaper and more solid but a little less easy to put together and reconfigure.
A great idea, but i think that very quickly the legs are going to get dogeared and it will start to get uneven etc etc.
I wish them luck with it, innovation in gaming cannot be wrong.
Quite cool, I tend to use a couple of decorating tables but they aren’t that solid and not always level. These look pretty cool, would have loved a wood version but I guess then it adds to the weight significantly.
Good idea but it’s far, far to flimsy. ( And no. I don’t buy the whole, ‘it’s flimsy to make it kick proof’ crap. )
Part of my job is carboard engineering and this is close to being done. It just needs something to give it more stability in the legs.
And once againI realise my post comes over as agressive. Sorry. It wasn’t meant to be.
My primary concern is the bottom corners and edge of the legs. Sliding this around on carpet would be a test I’d like to see. I think it could easily be addressed with a moldable plastic piece that fits over the corner to protect it.
All in all though, I think they’re on the right track. They’ve certainly identified a need in the gaming community (I’ve seen more stories about wonky table setups in comments related to this project in the last week than I’ve heard in the rest of my years in this hobby combined). I’m really hoping that they end up making something cool out of this. If nothing else though, I definitely want to see those rubberized mats.
Oh I agree. Something like this will help out a heck of a lot of people.
They’re on the right track, but they aren’t quite there yet. The ‘legs’ are far too flimsy and the feet are going to get bashed about and maybe slide all over the place.
There are many ways they could have done the legs and it would have been strong and stable. I wouldn’t have picked the way they went about it personally but as it stands it needs something to hold the bottom of the legs into shape.
Considering that’s a prototype, I don’t think this is as daft as it initially sounds. Water issues aside, this could be a lot more resilient than you might think. I will definitely be watching to see how this pans out.
Treated MDF could be the answer but the weight may be a problem then or cover the tables with vinyl cover sheeting.
I think it all boils down to cost.
Hypothetically if the life span of this table is realistically only a year (being used once or twice a week) that’s not a problem if the price point is at an acceptable limit for it to be replaced every year. If it costs £100 to buy (which I hope to god it doesn’t!) and needs replacing every year, then you could probably find a light good quality folding legged table or two for 2-3 years worth of these tables, and they would last longer. If it only costs £50 or less then it might be worth it. It will always come down to price for life span.
To make it more durable, (less prone to wear and moisture) they should consider a thin laminate coating on the top of the card, something around 50 microns thick, just to prolong its life.
Definitely one to keep an eye on currently using 2 x wilko pasting tables but they are rather uneven. Cost will be the breaking or making point
If the final version is good value and waterproof (well, boozeproof) I’m very interested!
Excluding the folds what about a good coat of PVA to strengthen it?
Didnt like it at first but the more i see of it the more im coming round to the idea.
I doubt whether i would use the legs myself, just the modular top on the dining table.
Exactly what I thought. Nice modular surface to use on top of dining room table and give it the 4ft width it’s lacking without scratching it to buggery. As long as it not to expensive I’m interested.
With all my attention focused on the construction of the table the rubberised gaming mat nearly passed me by. These will of great interest, as they are themed I presume we will be able to buy them separately.
May have to jump on “board” this kickstarter, great looking product.
Yep, you went there didn’t you 😛
I like that. Great use of cardboard, and can obviously take the weight.
Even a table of the big mierce things wouldn’t be havier than Justin.
Like the idea, right height for a change with gaming tables. I too think the stability still needs work and may be just me but the magnets didn’t seem that brilliant and need to be stronger/better. All in all though the idea is tight, I like it but boils down to cost, stability and her in doors lol ;0)
Like anything carboard (such as KR cases) you can give a coat of estapol for an insant hard wearing and water proof surface.
looks quite good actually, colour me interested.
Cool stuff, love to have these tables! Maybe they could make them from that corrugated plastic which might be more sturdy, or have struts inside the legs in an X shape that scissor open and give it a bit more strength like a foldable ironing board.
Its an interesting idea but my concern would be the wear on the legs. Every time you unfold the legs and fold them back you’re going to stress that seam until it fatigues and rips. The the table surface does seem pretty strong though.
I think the critical issue for me would be the cost, if it’s reasonable then I would definitely be interested.
Cunning engineering. If they used that plastic-coated stuff that cheap signs are made from it would be liquid proof. I like the idea.
The design of this table is innovative. The questionable part is not if the table will do its job, clearly it can withstand quite a bit of weight on its surface. My problem is with the material its made of. I don’t believe cardboard is a good material for a table. Cardboard is susceptible to moisture, open flame and accidental bumps. Cardboard is rigid, but not not durable and it will not last a long time. I can see this as a good table for someone who needs a to set up quickly for a presentation in a professional controlled environment where spectators will not be drinking, smoking or moving around. On a scale of 1 – 5, I give this table 4 for innovation, and 1 for practicality.
I agree, cardboard isn’t the best thing but if the price is right then a cardboard table could solve a lot of peoples problems.
If they’re cheap enough then they can be binned after they get ruined. But personally, I use a couple of cheap fold up bridge tables. – They’re stable, you can stick stuff under them, they take up less room than these seem to and although they may be little lower – I’ve never had any problems. – And i’m 6ft lol
AWESOME !!!!!!!!!! that’s fricken AWESOME. daddy wants , needs , must have.
Also… I can’t believe they were going to try and tease these out for a month. The end result – while a good idea – really wasn’t worth any anticipation.
For those who are being negative concerning its ability to withstand water, you wouldn’t get a snooker table wet would you? So why are you going to get your gaming table wet. I’d personally just vinyl wrap it.
You’ve never seen the snooker table in a pub then have you. :-p
That’s why I go dedicated snooker halls 😉
I still don’t have a use for them, definitely interested in the mats though if they are anything like the Mantic or Tablewar ones.
Hmm, pretty good idea. Though I myself am worried about the cardboard construction, that’s probably the answer to trying to keep it affordable and light weight. If it were cheap enough I would probably buy a set. I live in a studio apartment so storage space is a premium. Currently my closet is full with tables and boards. The idea of making them built up in a modular fashion is attractive too except it would change the storage space requirement.
I know cardboard would be pretty strong, but damp is a concern with it as my wargames stuff has to live in a shed. Perhaps an all over coat of polyurethane varnish would help. Will come down to price, though it would be a lot more portable than my current plastic folding table and two sheets of MDF setup.
Its def pretty cool and I really like it but it all depends on price, you can get folding tables fairly cheap now even if they are not ideal for various reasons. If its at a reasonable price i think it could be very useful and there is some easy inexpensive ways you could upgrade it as well. I was thinking maybe putting some extruded insulation foam on top of each to protect the top from moisture, add some stability and be customizable. You could use that magnet tape to hold the foam on and then you could have different tops that you can switch out and rearrange depending on what terrain features you wanted. Also I think maybe a couple cardboard sheets(or maybe thin wood) that fit together to form a X that could slot up into the leg part to push out the corners and add more stability. The one thing that worries me would be how it holds up in humidity, but if the price point is low enough that might not even matter. This is really something I’ve been looking for.
all answers to your question are online at the page on facebook https://www.facebook.com/4thwarEquipment
Back to science class boys! These are magnets which are polar… i.e. you have to align the right pole with the other and not just push them together hoping they’ll stick. A few times they were clearly repelling and causing an issue… LOL
That looks a cracking piece of kit fellas, my only concern was a nudge or kick sidewards but it seems to be fine.
Disoppointed about the lack of Lazor at the end, It would of been the cherry on top of a great review, ha.
My brain was going the same place as justin’s- my first thought was “Spanish announce table”…
It’s a sound idea but I think maybe there’s a psychological hangup in the way much like the smart car etc, no matter how often its proven they’re strong and can survive run ins with HGVs they still *look* like they should fall apart in a stiff breeze.
Same as everyone else – wasn’t sure at first but i’m sold if the price is affordable.
I’d get these, fablon the top surface and not even use the legs. It would provide excellent protection over the family dining table and help prop up the far corners of my Realm of Battle game board!
I think this is a great idea to have useful modular furniture in general. If its cheap with replaceable parts it may prove practicable and popular. I would be happy with something more durable, possibly plastic.
Quite frankly, it looks like one of those disposable work tables used for for handling wall paper. Developed further and to a specific need, but the same basic product.
I think it’s kinda limited niche product. Cardboard is best for cheap price and light weight. We don’t know the price point, but even if it’s low it is mitigated by limited durability — a wooden solution will last a lifetime, this will need to be replaced every 1-2 years? I’m still using a pingpong table I nicked from my parents’ garage 20 years ago, and it sure wasn’t new even then.
Have you ever used magnets butting regular tables together? No, because they have the weight to stay together without such gimmicks. Why didn’t Justin just sit up and get off the table? You know why.
The only time I have to carry gaming tables any significant distance is when our club organizes tournaments at an external location.
If weight is not a problem, getting a few A-frame legs and a sheet or sheets of chipboard is probably more durable and stable.Especially if you bother to engineer it a little bit.
I think these will be most useful to people like tournament organizers. Rent an empty hall, buy the tables to fill it, bin them after use. If you can get them delivered to location, you just seriously reduced your logistics problems. IF they are cheap enough to be included in the ticket price — you may even give them away to participants if anyone wants one.
A 9-foot cardboard wallpapering table costs about 20 euros at the hardware store.
4War have just emailed me notice that they have launched their kickstarter for the gaming table:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/4thwar/4thwar-equipment-wargaming-table
Just priced themselves out of my interest, I can get three plastic fold away pasting tables at that price.
Same here, best of luck to them but not for me
That’s a ridiculous price, 3 pieces of MDF cut to size from a hardware store plus some fold away plastic tables wouldn’t cost that much! Ok they might take up about twice the space of their design, it still wouldn’t be too difficult to store.
Sorry, not interested any more.
£83 for 3 cardboard tables!, are you GW in disguise?
Being made out of card I just can’t see this lasting long.
I went to Ikea, picked up a 2`x4` table top and 4 metal screw in legs, £23. 3 of these gives me a 6`x4` table and it only cost me £69. 100 harder wearing than these. The legs screw out for easy storage and not “too” heavy to transport round a mates / down the local club in the car.
I might have been more sceptical about card tables, but my experience of the cardboard KR multicase cases leads me to believe cardboard can be pretty robust.
I’ve looked at all the paste table/folding table options and to me their weight and storage difficulties has ruled them out, for my needs these tables look ideal – lightweight and store in a bag that can be put away at the back of a wardrobe.
Now I can accept that my needs may well be different to many (severe rheumatoid arthritis and multiple joint replacements mean weight is critical) however I think these really will be ideal for many others as well where light weight and easy storage are needed.
Neat idea, way to expensive. With that price point I’m not sure who they’re aiming for exactly.
I don´t know it looks a bit wobbely. It will depend hughly on price. If I get it for let´s say 50 Bucks and it last 2 years, OK.If I have to pay 150 – 200 Bucks it would be quite expensive over the years.
The durability can´t be so high. Looking at the “feet” of it I´m afraid one kick a bit to strong leaves a dense in one of the foots and it will never stand straight again.
i would prefer a foldable wooden table. It´s heavier but at least I know it will last two years.
This is a joke. They are way overpriced for cardboard. They do realize most people would rather spend that much money on more (a lot more) miniatures, right? It’s a cool idea but cardboard a that price…the shipping is also out of wack. If they are shipping from withing the US also there is NO way if cost $55. He already stated in a comment $50, so already $5 less than what they are charging. I can order a huge, heavy BBQ delivered for less shipping than this cardboard. With the amount they are looking for, I really don’t see it funding. It is a cool idea but they need to work harder on lowering the price of it and shipping.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/4thwar/4thwar-equipment-wargaming-table/posts/827637
If you read the comment they have posted on their its answer a lot of questions.
1. ‘Cardboard’ isn’t accurate for what its made of, as it is water resistant (from the viseo more so then MDF as when that get was it start to fall apart very quickly.
2. as you are shipping from Italy not with in the US and you think of the size and the weigh its not expensive and hell its about time you guy felt the crap the EU has from all the KS that charge $50 p&p for a lot smaller and lighter packages
3. It’s a lot more stable then fold out table/decorating tables from the videos
I like that they have made this product and wish them the best on their endeavor. For the cost of the table plus shipping, I could build multiple tables out of readily available, sturdier, and more durable materials. The only advantage this product has is being lightweight. However, instead of using cardboard, they could have used corrugated plastic. It’s just as lightweight, yet it would repel any water based liquids.
I’ve never seen anyone gaming without a a beverage at some point, and rules about keeping drinks off of the table don’t work 100% of the time. The chance of one spill ruining my $100+ investment is just too great.
If you keep your eyes open, you can find the material to build your own table out of without paying a cent. Repurpose something that is heading for a landfill instead. At worst, check the stores that sell used building materials regularly and pay cents on the dollar for something with quality.
I also think that close to $100,000 is needed to get this business started.
and now unlocked also “only mat” pledge!
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/4thwar/4thwar-equipment-wargaming-tables-returns
This post is a warning for any future backers of a 4thwar product.
This is what I wanted as a reward; a “high quality 6×4 gaming mat” here’s a pic of what I was expecting:
Looks great doesn’t it?
Well, this is what I got:
Notice the slight difference?
A) It’s not even 6×4 and is in fact 3” shorter making the mat unusable for use and is obviously not as described.
B) Notice the faded, washed out picture? Not really the same is it and what’s that pale line running all the way through it? Evidently I was supposed to know what the finish would be like as they gave us the model of the printer they were using. Pity they didn’t show a picture like mine to advertised rather than a graphic, sort of misleading, no?
C) Their chosen material is awful, the worse I have ever seen. It is lightweight and flimsy which marks and creases easily, and guess how they told me to deal with this. Evidently I am supposed to pack a hair drier whenever I go to club to play and that is supposed to get the creases out. I’d say this is a little inconvenient and again wasn’t mentioned in the brochure.
As you can imagine I was not best pleased so asked for a refund then asked for a part refund and was told “NO REFUND” (their capitalisation) as they have fulfilled their part of the bargain and are following KS guidelines (which I dispute anyway). So instead of hiding behind vague KS guidelines they could have done the right thing and offered some deal to appease a loyal backer, did they not say we were their friends in one post? Don’t think being their friend is a good idea.
So, to sum up, their product is total rubbish and their customer service is even worse. I’m actually more disappointed in this KS than another where I didn’t get anything