Weekender XLBS: Rusty Tanks Look Awesome & Do We Need More Alternative Models?
September 25, 2016 by lloyd
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Happy Sunday!
Ben’s audio is rather subdued!
Yes I agree… I demand an Unfettered Ben ………………. (the mind boggles ) =)
Don’t worry I should have a new headset this week 😉
Well that’s a relief =)
Happy Sunday!
Re Proxying etc: Consider Ben’s alternative Khorne Beserkers with his new paint scheme, consider if the Sergeant is a proxied in model that isn’t an original… you immediately have a unique unit that can grow its own backstory etc around that character.
I even proxied in some bashed Forgeworld models into my own original chapter – some could get past the barrier of “but that’s so-and-so” and see my modified concept while others couldn’t.
I agree that simply providing troop replacements as complete figures is a bit… dodgy? Characters, parts (shoulder pads, weapons etc) or providing units not yet released by the original manufacturer is OK with me. For example wanting some Harpies for my Beastmen a while back meant I had to proxy in some alternatives..
That is exactly what I was getting at in the original post. Some “alternative” stuff is fine IMO. Space Marine shoulder pads, torsos, tank turrets etc. i.e. parts you would add to another model, all cool. Full, instantly recognisable models, not so much.
@dignity In response to your comments that you instantly recognise them as Warp Spiders / Necron Lord / Tau Fire Warrior, that’s all well and good but who actually owns all these recognisable IPs? It certainly isn’t Wargame Exclusive. If you owned the IPs, would you mind other companies stealing them for their own gains?
The cool thing about WW2 tanks is that nobody owns the IP to WW2 so anyone can make models of them.
The German V1 rockets were deployed 1944-45 after being under development from early concepts started in 1938/39.
Happy Sunday (time to fall asleep to the XLBS)
Justin is spot on about the paint pots. It wouldn’t surprise me if GW like them because they dry out faster than dropper bottles forcing you to get more paint faster than normal. Hate the flip lids. Just crap
Took a 5 year break from gaming a while back – when I came back to the hobby every one of my GW pots (flip top and the older screw-on lid design) was completely dried – by comparison only one of my Vallejo dropper bottles had dried out. Quite a positive reflection on the design of the dropper type bottles.
I just like the dropper bottles to help control the ratios of mixed colors. i typically write down the drop ratios (1:3) for my vellejo…makes it much easier to keep the mixed paint colors consistent. I can never match the same mixed color from the GW paint pots. total crap.
Have gw hex pots from the 90’s still in perfect condition, just use a pallet and keep the rim clean.
Dropper pots are great for paint, but for texture stuff they blow, clog too easily, and have had issues with the dropper popping off due to a solid lump forming in the nozzle, and having the entire pot empty over my work area. end of the day its more to do with looking after your paints than anything else, keep the nozzle and rims clean and you will have a good time, dont and you will have issues…
Perhaps a little too much ‘wind-up Justin’ banter and a little more XLBS hobby discussion?
Paint pots aren’t hobby now? Dude leave it.
If this is ‘Grandmas and suck eggs’ apologies, but if you haven’t already, you need to visit here Lloyd: http://www.miniatur-wunderland.com
And, on the subject of Genestealers and their use of Imperial cars, what! can they not PARTEEEE!??
Hamburg – here I come!
Yeah it’s on my list of places to go, has been for years 🙂
Happy Sunday
Proxying, for me it is a question of the context of the game, me and a mate having a laugh I am fine with asking what is what. But in a more competitive setting like a tournament it is a no go.
Alternative models are fine
Happy Sunday!!
@dignity Regarding biological/bio engineered warfare. I think the science is there and will definitely be in 100 years. I think its more a question of ethics that’s holding that kind of warfare back. Same is true of drones to a certain extent. Some of the bio engineered robots that are created are nuts and that’s only the stuff the general public can see.
I’m not talking about Dino troopers by the way haha :p
Happy sunday
but bad news @lloyd model mates is no more :(, this is the home page now:
“Modelmates has now closed.
Thank you to all our customers who have supported us.”
http://modelmates.co.uk
That said have you tried GW’s typhus corrosion wash?, found it to be to rather good for a veriety of rust and corrosion effects, either on its own or as a base for more pigments on top…
and watching on i see you have lol
ah, dammit. That explains the absence at salute.
I’m really sad to hear Modelmates has closed! Such a shame, I only had a few pots of their weathering solutions. Though they were going to be around for longer with their unique soluble ranges. Wonder what’s happened to them?
*thought
I agree with phalanx58, I enjoy when you guys discuss things and go back and forth but today’s show seemed a little off. People were talking over each other and leaving me unsure if that was someones opinion or if they were just saying a point to annoy the other person.
lloyd ….helicopters date back before ww2 🙂
As for warfare in 100 years.
Yet again 2000AD is the font of knowledge I look forward to set the ABC warriors on the battlefield
I assume anyone who gets upset over companies making minis which rely on GW’s IP would like to see every example of GW making products reliant on other IP’s removed from the Citadel Catalogue? Shall we start with Beastmen (Broo), Elves and Dwarves (Tolkien via D&D), Genestealers/Space Hulk (Aliens), Adeptus Arbites (Judge Dredd), the entire core concept of 40K (Nemesis the Warlock), and Chaos (Elric). I’m sure there are other examples people could add. GW are fully entitled by copyright law to protect every aspect of their minis which are original to them, there’s an entire thread on this in the forums (which gave birth to the Sunday Politics threads). The problem is, there aint a whole lot which is original to begin with.
I do think the genestealers are far more inspired by rather than reliant on, but Adeptus Arbites, 100% they are the law 😛
I know what your saying but those warp spiders, there warp spiders.
I think that is what some people are about, when they complain about that.
The difference here IMO (and in the eyes of UK law as far as I know it) is the instant recognition that those are indeed Warp Spiders (or a Necron Lord, or a Tau Fire Warrior) and are made specifically with the intent of replacing those models.
Nothing wrong with taking inspiration from someone else’s concepts though.
I will agree that GW have walked the fine line of IP theft a few times over the years too though and was anyone (other than GW/Citadel/Marauder) making Judge Dread minis back when Arbites were released, I am sure they would have made a fuss about it.
Problem is, GW can’t win. If they don’t sue, the IP thieves will continue. If they do, the internet goes wild about the “big corporation” and their obsession with lawyers. That and the fact that WGE are based in Russia so good luck suing them.
Apologies, getting them confused with Russian Alternative. Appears they’re not based in Russia.
Well in order to maintain Intellectual Properties you have to sue, otherwise they can point to as precedent. That is why facebook if you type it like this will come up as incorrect but as correct if it comes up like this Facebook. Same with, hotmail, iphone, or samsung.
IP protection is pretty important for major companies.
The point of WGE making the Warp Spider unit so similar might just be to make female Warp Spiders available, seeing as every member of the squad is female.
A lot of people wish GW would make more female Eldar Aspect warriors because in the background they are supposedly more common, so WGE obliges where GW has it’s feet in the mud…
I had never considered 40k using the Nemesis the Warlock as a concept but yeah I can see it
Pat Mills even wrote a 40K comic in the early 2000s comic about purging aliens. Talk about an open acknowledgement of your sources.
A redundant ‘comic’ managed to slip into that sentence. Also, when typing I recall that Torquemada’s elite troops were called Terminators. Then there’s the whole Gothic thing too.
Well Torquemada did have his 7 chapters of Terminators and one of his favourite weapons was a chainsword
Indeed. There was a lot borrowed from 2000AD back in the 1980s. That’s not speculation as Rick has openly admitted it.
There’s a big difference between copying IP and being influenced by IP. These Wargame Exclusive models COPY the design of GW’s models so that they fit in. GW on the other hand blends influences from different IP to create their own thing.
A Genestealer is not a Giger Alien. The influence is there but it is it’s own thing. The claws, the hunched back, the multiple limbs and long tongue, the eyes etc. Look at the silhouette of Alien and the Genestealer and you can tell them apart. This is GW’s version set in their mixture of the worlds that they are interested in and influenced by, all put together to create something that is unique to GW.
GW doesn’t just blatantly copy like these knock-off companies do, in order to trade off what they haven’t put the time in to design. What Wargames Exclusive have done is said “these are the elements that GW uses in their designs in each of their ranges, so what we do is just put them into our sculpts to make them fit in”. There’s no original thought put into it.
Why do the gothic cars have edging on them? Because that’s what GW does.
Why are the guns that shape? Because that’s how GW does it for that range.
Why are there those ridges on the Tau knock-off’s armour? Because that’s what GW does.
Why does the Tau knock-off have that big shoulder pad? Because GW sculpts them on theirs.
What is the design philosophy behind the markings on GW’s miniatures like the Tau symbol and the shape of the Warp Spider Aspect Warriors guns and helmets etc? We don’t know, we didn’t design it, but it’s there so we’ve copied it.
And that’s the bloody point! And that’s why I hate seeing companies wasting their time making models to just fit in with other ranges. Spend that time and talent to either make your own models set in your own (influenced) universe, or apply to get job with GW because you obviously love their models and want to sculpt them.
There is no difference if copyright is not infringed on. Zero. Nada. Zilch. You can’t steal something off someone if it is not original to them. And those original Beastmen were Broo, they’re weren’t influenced by Broo, they were actually Broo.
Which is why nobody cares about other mini manufacturers making beastman (or goblin, orc, ogre etc) mins.
Eldar Warp Spiders are however, fairly original.
Would you be able to give us more information on Broo? I looked them up and it is a beer and a Marvel Guardians of the Galaxy character from what I was able to find.
I believe you, I would just say the shoe is on the other foot, but two wrongs don’t make a right.
http://glorantha.tumblr.com/post/97703013943/what-are-the-broo
Ta @lunchbox for the info.
Alright I think this will be a big response.
But first off! A big thank you for the kind words on my minis and everyone else of course 🙂
Yeah Justin it is as you said with Romain the other colour is that way by design to try and draw the eye, but I tell you after painting all of them up, I am ready for a break from Pink ha ha!
Also can’t take your eye off that tongue aye? These are followers of Tzeentch not Slaaneshi 😛
So as for the the difference in the World Eaters/Khorne Berserks yeah, I just quickly grabbed a photo but another forum member Sumichan may have the answer with heavily verdigrised models.
As for the hair dryer thing I am actually kind of with Lloyd on this one but even more so I go the heat gun, but heat guns aren’t set and forget things Justin, your meant to brush them back and forth across the mini so that your adding head and removing humidity, but never in place for more than half of a second properly even less.
As for alternative models…
Well there is quite a bit there. So there is a number of perspectives to consider, I will start out with mine. There are two types of alternative models I think that are out there supplemental and substitution.
Supplemental :
A model(s) which is designed to be used with the model(s) you use for your with your game of choice range to give your army/fleet/gang a style that you more enjoy, these models are used with the current range and are designed to complement them.
Substitution:
A model(s) that is designed to replace something in the current range of the game that you are using. This can be for a number of reasons cost, design choice, or sense edict (nude models being replaced by clothed alternatives). These models are expressly designed not to work with the current range but to replace a singular unit, particular character or in some cases whole armies.
I think that supplemental models are awesome, and I think that these are the best ones where you don’t have to explain what it is. Because like Lloyd said it allows for an easy flow of the game and an enjoyable experience. I love them because I think with a lot of them they are very pleasing to the eye, they have great design choices, and they often have a lot of work put into them. I think of certain lines such as Ultraforge and the models you have shown above which really help give some character to your army and make it that little bit more special.
However I have a bit of a different reaction when it comes to replacement models, more often than not replacement ranges. See this is where and why I had the most negative reaction to Kings of War, as some other people have had. I think when people are just try to replace an army it all depends on if everything is recognisable and there is no confusion.
The thing is replacement models vary to great degrees. So for example I don’t mind anyone who replaces the old Warhammer Treekin they look horrid they don’t fit the current design ascetic and they are just bad.
There are also choices I don’t mind like there are a lot of people who do up different, dark elf models, so if someone did it so that each unit was more recognisable like here are three different dark elf witch groups and each from a different range so they weren’t mixed up. All good mix and match Noooo thank you.
But yeah as for alternative models I think it is a big fat, DEPENDS sticker on it.
Great Episode guys 😀
Great show as per normal. Just wanted to chuck in some thoughts on the basing/multi basing discussion. I play AoS, KoW, KoW Historical and Saga. I didn’t want to have some miniatures on multibases that I then couldn’t use in either AoS or Saga so I based them on AoS bases but then purchased conversion trays. I magnetise the miniature base with sheet magnets and place thin sheet metal (about the width of a tin can) or “steel paper” in between the two sheet of MDF that make up the conversion tray.
As a result my Saga Vikings can be KoW Historical Vikings, KoW Kingdoms of Men, AoS Free People, and my AoS Prosecutors double as Elohi, my Bretonnian Peg Knights as Brotherhood Forsaken, and all my Chaos Warriors as Varangur.
Yay, over an hour of my Sunday wasted watching Lloyd and Justin bicker over a difference of opinion. Not sure how I sat through to the end. Lloyd, it’s common courtesy to in a ‘discussion’ to let someone else state their opinion without interrupting them and continuing to ram your opinion down their throat.
And that is all this was. A difference of opinion. Aren’t we grown up enough to realise that people do have different opinions and let it slide at that instead of wasting so much time and delivering a very under par XLBS Weekender.
Try not to worry too much, I’ll make sure we slip some form of natural aphrodisiac into their drinks for the next one 😉
And if that don’t work let’s run with a potent laxative to see what happens eh? lol 😀
Run being the operative word
hehehe
Thanks for the reply Warren, appreciate the sentiments and sorry for venting so strongly
Typhus Corrosion is fab for all sorts of grime 😎
Together with Blood For The Bloodgod my all time favourite GW products ever!
Speaking of blood..
@brennon
Painting anything Space Marines is a bit like painting historicals as the paint scheme is pretty much prescribed by the lore..
Blue Khorne Berserkers will be taken for Thousand Sons or something..so the colour seems to define the chapters more than anything if you ask me. I’d be thinking carefully about changing it dramatically. However, changing the shade of red would be less of a problem and I’d go for a red brown/ russet scheme if I wanted to change it.
@dignity
I can’t stand dropper bottles as they seem to clog up permanently..
In fact I do refill all my Vallejo paints as much as possible into old GW pots.
Helps to not being clumsy tho.. 😉
I guess – I’ll have to try and do it justice. Hopefully the level of iconography on the Berserkers will be enough to have them stand out on the tabletop.
That last 4-Ground house you showed off is what we call in the states a “Shotgun Shack” which you see a lot of in the south, but can be found in many places around the US. They are usually pretty dilapidated, and if you ever decide to furnish the model, your living room would be up front by the porch, the next room would be a bedroom, and the kitchen would be out back. You may need an outhouse behind the shack since it lacks a bathroom. 🙂
What a cool name for a simple house 🙂
Happy Sunday!
On the topic of alternative miniatures I have to agree with @caladors – it DEPENDS. Further thinking: If you’re about to build a force to compete in official GW-Tournament, you always have to be aware, to use mainly GW models. Yes the Tau Sergeant looks cool – but do you really need different Warpspiders? That’s why I’m more on the side of cool conversions, which also can leed to great individual character models, while staying true to the original design of the faction and not beeing a copy. So I’m more interested to get alternative heads, shoulder pads or weapon parts, not whole miniatures. But this is only my personal preference.
Yeah the curse of GW only does haunt me a lot as I only really play at the store, I don’t have a group, and the people to choose from in my area is much more limited than in the UK.
I have to agree with @lloyd and say the train looks sweet. I’m tempted to get one or two and cover it in cool looking Graffiti for a zombie/modern skirmish table…
If I ever go down the route of playing Weird War 2, I’d have to mix and match with vehicles, because I like the idea picking the really cool looking stuff from various ranges. I don’t see a problem with it personality… On this occasion Justin is just wrong…I have to agree with Lloyd..
On the subject of Weird War, Osprey are releasing a Weird Roman Wargame, that looks interesting, called Broken Legions. It’s fantasy historical skirmish game, this is definately something that interests me.
And if Warren still has a bug for Napoleonics, Osprey are releasing a skirmish game in December called Chosen Men, could a good choice to dip the toe in to Napoleonic gaming without having to build a massive army.
Oh thanks for the heads up about Broken Legions.
That last house at 13:54 is called a ‘Shotgun’ style house. You see them a great deal in New Orleans.
@brennon – just thinking about your khorne berserkers… have you thought about doing them in the old white and blue of the pre-heresy World Eaters? You could then have some kind of back story of them being separated from the main army and didnt re-paint their armour.
It would certainly show off the bloodwork that you might do.
I might be going down that route. I have a friend who has done the same so I might end up copying him!
Gloss White (think vw beatle) and steel/chrome trim, would really show up the gore
Happy Sunday, guys.
With all that 4Ground terrain and the “L” train, I’m thinking “The Chicago Way”; ideal for a bit of 20s, 30s mobster action.
happy Sunday what a fantastic show
Bit to much negativity in that show. And in the Khorne Bloodbound book there are various colour schemes apart from red & bronze.
I sometimes wonder how much Lloyd and Justin is just banter. I think the dynamic between them is totally different than when Justin is with Warren. Take the fact that Lloyd had just broken a model that Justin had made and then proceeded to laugh and make fun of it. You could tell that Justin was totally miffed but managed to keep a lid on it, well done for that. But all the way through this and other shows Lloyd is on the verge of being a ‘bully’ and constantly being what I consider to be a bit nasty. Whenever Justin has anything to show then Lloyd has a dig but when its Lloyd’s turn it takes half and hour which is mostly again putting Justin down and stating that he has done a far better job????
My point in all of this is
a: Not a very good advert for Beasts of War
b: Not a good way of showing how to behave in front of younger viewers
c: Leave Justin alone for once if you don’t have anything nice to say then be quiet.
Anyway I’m off my soapbox now, I don’t normally say anything but I feel quite strongly about this and hate seeing people put down for something they truly love.
Agreed on all points sir
I have to say I felt uncomfortable watching this weeks XLBS, I don’t enjoy seeing anyone belittled
Happy Sunday!
Thanks for comments and button guys 🙂
For painting the chevrons on the Vindicators – yes it’s masking tape
– Basecoat black
– Mask out the lines using Tamiya masking tape
– Lightly airbrush white over the area (couple of coats)
– Repeat with yellow
By using the black as the base, if there is any paint bleeds it’s easy to correct with black, whereas the other way round requires multiple layers of white and yellow and will never quite match up..
For the shoulder pads, I actually can’t take a lot of credit as they’re from Forge World with sculpted chevrons
Ref Proxying – I’m with @dignity on this one, I don’t like mixing miniature manufacturers as I want to be able to instantly recognise what I’m looking at across the table, without having to constantly ask my opponent to remind me. Don’t mind conversions / alternate bits, but if it is not “obvious” overall what the unit is then it’s a distraction.
@lloyd – sorry mate, but to me that DUST helicopter looked like it was made by Fisher Price, so I can see why people called it cartoony 🙂
@olliep Yeah the chopper isn’t a favourite model for me. In fact I really didn’t like it but it’s grown on me. But I think it’s just one model, which I don’t think the rest of the range should be judged by.
Happy Sunday!
Oh no someone mentioned Politics, *twitches* excuse me…several minutes, (and one thoroughly pummeled punching bag) later, sorry needed to get that out of my system.
Hairdryer to dry painted minis? Nope! Desk Fan maybe, but even the best paint risks cracking if it drys too quickly.
On the subject of Proxy/Substitute models, well it depends as long as the Subs look sufficiently similar in appearance and silhouette so that you can more or less tell at a glance who/what they’re supposed to be then yes go for it, if you frequently have to ask “ok what are those again?” the no.
on a related note all Tau have that cranial cleft as seen here, icidentaly thast cleft is Y shaped in femail Tau and Etherial Caste Tau have a small rhomboidel orgen that protrudes from it (which is beleved by some both In Universe and amongst 40K Fans, to be the center of som sort of mind control ability)
Gemany was very advanced in their development partly because the development of rocketry was not restricted by the Treaty Of Versailles, so they were free to develop the tech as much as they could.
Good show.
Long live the comedic outtakes !!!!
I wondered if it was just me but I also felt Lloyd was wired throughout this XLBS with Justin taking the brunt of it. All aspects of our hobby are subjective so why does Lloyd feel the need to impose his opinions so vehemently and quick to shutdown others? I want to see impartial and objective reviews on broad and balanced content on Beasts of War, not Jeremy Kyle. Ben hardly got a word in edgeways which is disappointing given his vast knowledge. Not the best show guys
On Ben’s kill team: how about doing them up in the pre-Heresy World Eater scheme and have them splattered with blood; sort of like a transitory phase between the pre-Heresy days and the ‘current’ 40k days, implying the red paint on the 40k era ‘zerkers isn’t paint, it’s all the blood they’ve gotten covered in over the millennia.
On Justin’s proxying argument: I think you’re missing his point Lloyd; he’s not saying he’s against you plonking down a mech and going ‘that’s a Russian mech’, what he’s against is when the army has a variety of mechs available and you bring an alternative mini that doesn’t resemble any of them, that’s when he doesn’t like it because it’s harder for him to gauge what it can do, even when you say what it is.
On Alternative minis: I have mixed feelings. On the one hand it’s nice to see stuff that wouldn’t be available from the original manufacturer, especially in regards to characterful minis and conversion parts, but on the other it can have a negative impact; the more money spent on alternative minis, the less is spent on the official minis, which makes the official manufacturer put prices up to compensate, which drives more to seek alternative minis, in turn driving prices up again, and so on.
On Tau faces: you’re wrong Lloydd, the Fire Warrior kits have a bare head in them which was intended for showing which was the squad leader, and iirc the was a Water Caste mini for Inquisitor which had a bare head. There’s also artwork of bareheaded Tau from non-Ethereal Castses.
Also, on Genestealer Cults and civilian vehicles: I think the point you’re missing Lloyd is that the Cult aren’t an army like what you usually see on the 40k tabletop and usually won’t deploy as such. They’re infiltrators and mostly will be clashing with gangers, Arbites, local PDF, and Inquisitorial Warbands. Until they make a move openly, they will get around by local transportation, which on hive worlds and developed worlds would be in limos, groundcars, and the like. You’re also forgetting that not all members of the cult look wierd and mutated, some can pass for humans or abhumans (especially on hive worlds where the residents of the underhive can look a bit odd anyway) and the cult also includes full blooded humans (those humans implanted by purestrain genestealers that breed and give birth to the hybrids) all of whom can get around as easily as a regular human or abhuman.
The German rocket was ground mounted on a X shaped base like the famous 88mm gun .. IRC they had a larger version for 128mm guns , so probably that one . The tank hull was based on the Tiger II , John would have known that .. While the rust effects on the Dust tank look great , in real combat ( WW II ) a lot of Russian tanks didn’t last a month before being killed ,so not much time for rust , except tracks , when parked over night ( removed by travel the next day ) and maybe , exhaust from running hot almost 24/7 . But it still looks cool ,and I’ve gone the heavy rust route on some of my tanks just for that reason
Hi Loyd. I’m in Ballymena and actually play 1/48 combat. So if you ever want to have a go at it just let me know and I could travel to Coleraine and run you through as game. I’ve actually played it with 15 figures per side and it works fine although 5 – 6 is the standard number of figures per side.
@gideon7v20, sounds cool, how are you for gaming on Sundays?
Sorry but Sundays are usually out for me – that is a working day! I can do most weekdays given notice.
Ok, will pick this up as a pm 🙂
Sorry, Loyd, that should be “run you through a game”, not, “run you through as game.” the latter sounds a little violent.
Are we sure Jason only fell off a roof once? Lloyd deserves a medal for remaining calm under extreme provication
What did you mean by the first part?
Watch the show you’ll find out.
@warzan Get your arse back into the Weekenders mate! You always have interesting things to say, even when they go off topic it’s a blast. Regardless of a running order, you keep the show informative and interesting and funny as feck to watch. You’re like Sergeant Hulka in the Bill Murray and Harold Ramis movie Stripes. You’re BoW’s big toe. And BoW can’t walk through a Weekender without a big toe.
Everyone, let’s give it up to our own big toe, Warren!
Video not working. Stops streaming at the 5:06 mark
I applaud Ben for wanting to have unique-ish Khorne Berserkers. [& boo to Justin for being a stick in the mud about bronze & crimson KBs!]
For Ben, before Angron was united with his Legion, the World Eaters were the Warhounds [ War Hounds?]. They had a blue & white color scheme. You could go with a more *Traitor/Renegade* chapter that harkens back to their Terra roots. Use the blue & white scheme [maybe offvwhite, to signify the *aging* if it?], with crimson & bronze as the spot colors. [Always wise to have *Khorne Identifier* colors above & beyond just the minis obviously being Berserkers.]
Blaster was here…
great entertainment as always chaps
The problem with having an all drone millitary, is that with out true ai, they are to predictable. Humans will always be able to out maneuver and out think limited ai’s because the ai will not be able to think creatively enough to fight humans. Humans will always be needed in warfare, either by boots on the ground or controlling machines, ie, tanks and aircraft.
What I think is that we will see drones and robots take on the supporting roles, such as logistics, support vehicle controls, and the like.
In short, drones will become the support, leaving humans to do the real fighting.
Ben’s Khorne Berserkers – I think the pre-Heresy white and blue others have suggested is a cool idea, I had considered using that on the free Slaughterpriest model from White Dwarf.
Other ideas would be black or green even, or how about this – yellow armour with black edging that is lightly drybrushed with metal? Unless I google it now, I’ve never seen a yellow and black Khorne Berserker warband before! It would look quite stark and maybe look like evil Imperial Fists, but I think that might be a cool idea. The blood would definitely show up against those colours.
I’d suggest getting a few minis to try out the schemes on first. Or just dive in and trust in Khorne’s guidance! 😀
@lloyd You can win a war from the air – just drop an atom bomb on the enemy. It stopped the Japanese. That’s what the world needs, more atom bombs dropped. One on each country that is still fighting or thinking of fighting today. Syria? Atom bomb it. The rest of the Middle East – atomb bomb. North Korea – atom bomb Kim Jong Un’s house. Russia – lots of atom bombs, dropped before they get a chance to stop the first one dropped on Putin.
Simultaneous, synchronised, precision dropped atom bombs.
I say nuke the area and get the hell out of there. It’s the only way to be sure. Air superiority at it’s best. Just remember to live farrrrrrrrrrrrrrr away from the bombed countries. For many, many, many, many, many, many years. Decades. Underground. All will be well. In the end… Until the aliens invade and the radiation ravaged mutants and A.I. drone machines attack us! 😛
Damn, one last thing! I forgot to reply to yesterday’s Weekender about the Genestealer coverage. I don’t know if it’s been commented on yesterday, but here’s my ramble.
I know you guys record before the weekend, but that’s when GW reveals it’s releases in full. So putting out an item on what GW “might” be doing with a range of new minis, in this case the Genestealer Cults, on the same day as GW releases exactly what they are all about makes your coverage late and behind the times. While you put the video out on the Saturday, on the same day GW has released the new range. I was checking it out on the website while listening to you guys chatting about it and thinking – this speculative item is pointless, it’s out now!
I think you’d either have to cover GW’s releases retrospectively in the following weekend or get hold of some leaked images and information like the Bell of Lost Souls website (which has very accurate sources – you’ve probably read them 😉 ) which I guess you can’t really do what with the kerfuffle you’ve had with GW before.
It is a bit jarring though to be listening to “what GW might be doing” on the day GW publishes what they are indeed doing. I guess there’s no easy solution to it, other than recording on Saturday, but I doubt you’d want to work the weekend too (I wouldn’t!). Or perhaps you leave the GW stuff out for a separate video on Monday’s? Then you guys will know what you’re on about. 😀
First of all – DON’T DRY YOUR BEARD WITH A HAIR DRIER! srsly guys, super bad for dem hairs yo!
Moving on, For Ben’s Khorne. It has probably been suggested already, but oh well – How about a greyish bone for the main armour and a black or subdued/dark metalic for the trim?
Or even black armour with bone trim?
There is no reason I can see why a covert Kill team of Khorne wouldn’t want to be all dark and shady to go after the toughest kills for their god? Makes sense to me that they wouldn’t go around in bright red. You could fluff it so they hunt for high fliers in the imperium to offer the most rich and over indulged sacrifices to please Khorne. After all, surely Khorne wants the nicest skulls to adorn his throne? (assuming he has a throne of skulls…. rings a bell with me anyway……)
also “covert kill team of khorne” try saying that ten times fast.
Anyone else think Ben needs to shave?
@dignity isnt the berzserkers red armour red, because of the blood. So a berzerker early in the career have a different amour, like the chapter color? I have a CSM armor painted up like Iron Warriors, and when the Khorne Deamonkin came out, I got two boxes of berzerkers (three units of eight). They will be painted to fit the rest of the Iron Warrior style army. So @brennon, I’d say, go for what chapter you want to do, and gore it up!
And blue? Traitor ultramarines?
Ultraitormarines? 🙂
easy , the comments are getting a little heavy on the negative side. it is easy to highlight problems but if you are going to highlight something ease up on the gas. it would be ok if Lloyd was impervious to negative comments ,but personally i would be gutted.
it got a little scrappy today but its not necessary to say much more than that ,the fellas aren’t daft.
i do think you need to go round the table so poor Ben gets his say before it gets more organic.
comment below is the perfect way to swiftly end a stale mate.
the end of the show was awesome, i have the giggles thinking about it while writing this.
I stand by what I said
relax guys everyone is thick skinned in the studio, we have banter 24/7 pretty much here, we all read comments and watch back segments, to live and live and learn.
Sometimes our banter is not someone elses banter, so we learn a bit and draw a different line until it happens again 🙂
That’s fine @warzan but parts of yesterday’s show bordered on Jeremy Kyle which left me for one feeling uncomfortable. Ben must have felt like a third wheel at times. I’ve been a member for nearly 6 years and sadly this wasn’t one of the better shows
I’ll have to make sure we keep the key to the cupboard with the lie detector and dna tests well hidden then eh? 🙂
There are some shows that dont bare replicating, we’ll stick to loose women 🙂
@warzan – Lol, god no. Not loose women! XLBS is a huge part of my weekend viewing, I don’t watch much tv, certainly none of the fore mentioned canned entertainment
Love the Easter Egg at the end if you watch through the credits.
The problem with having robots on the battlefield is that making war is a never ending battle, this warfare would target civilian rather then a fighting force. This because I destroyed 200 units and took 20 feet, as appose to I attack a city and killed 200 people. It all about which one will bring a country to the negotiation table
Do a stainless steel (chromed) finish like they are surgical instruments instead of warriors and then have the blood pool and stick to that.
The prior comment about stainless steel was in regards to Khorne berserkers.
Wargame Exclusives’ Space Elf Spiders – We shown off some of the Grim Skull sculpts as alternatives for Warhammer 40,000 and discuss their merits. What do YOU think – are these a great thing for the industry or should the talents of these sculptors be put towards something more original? – See more at: http://www.beastsofwar.com/backstage/weekender-xlbs-rusty-tanks-alternative-models/#sthash.pC3kXPYm.dpuf
Could I say it may be worth looking back at the first Sunday Politics Show, The thin white line, as this was the first topic . A lot was said that is still current especially looking at the subject.
@lloyd Hope you do a video on how you plan to weather those 4Ground buildings. I have a whole load of buildings needing weathering and a bit unsure where to start.
Hi @darkiss, will keep it in mind.
I know Justin likes to know exactly what he is playing against but to me that defeats the whole point of playing a wargame. Throughout history commanders faced forces with units they simply had no idea what they were and how to handle it. I often play games against things I don’t know what they are or do but I like that. It’s a learning curve. If you knew everything there was to know about everything that would make the game really boring and never challenge you
Yes, but in that case you might as well play with “blanks” models, so you know it is a Tank or Mech but not which one until later in the game. While that could be fun it would need to work both ways.
As long as the game is open, I do go for something that can be recognized by both sides
How about the Dust helicopter with AT-43 Dotch Yaga legs? A quad lander?
nice show guys the new figures and stuff are looking great.
@lloyd @brennon I think I have to agree with @dignity if you don’t like a particular unit that a company has released, why would you buy it if someone is offering something you like? I mean even my own miniature which is still in sculpting limbo is inspired by GW ip, but like justin said, these sculpts are made from the ground up. Its all well saying be original, but if you copy GW, you are just copying everything they copied as well.
Totally have to disagree with you @deaddave
There’s nothing “ground up” about those not-Warp Spiders. They’re just a copy with a few details changed. Taking the brief of “Space Elves which can jump through the warp and shoot web-guns which eviscerate their enemies with monomolecular fibres”, the fact that they came to something so close to the original shows it is definitely not “ground-up”. Adding boobs does not make the “not-Exarch” a new design.
Same goes for the Necron and the Tau. If asked to design “a leader of a long dead civilisation whose conciousness now inhabits a robotic body” or “a low level officer that fights for the greater good of his technologically advanced, humanoid alien race and their allies, and carries a powerful laser rifle”, one would not automatically arrive at those minis unless they were copying the existing IP.
WGE’s vehicles and some of their other minis are another matter. They are great and not just some blatant copy, just inspired by an artistic style. If asked to design a “personal transport vehicle for an important “witch hunter meets detective” character set in a gothic sci-fi universe” it is conceivable that they arrived at those designs without copying. As far as I am aware, they are not copies of anything. I know there’s a fine line between inspiration and plagiarism, but this is where I personally draw it.
And looking at your miniature @deaddave, I could reasonably see the brief of “armoured greco-roman inspired sci-fi space knight with futuristic shield and spear” and see you arriving at that design without copying any GW (or other) IP. Sure it may be inspired by many different IPs but it looks sufficiently different to not be recognisable as any one in particular.
Amusingly it looks closer to a sci-fi Stormcast Eternal, even though it was conceived well before they were released (I guess we can’t call them Sigmarines any more, they’ll have to be “Sig-Cor Tauri”).
I’ll take that as a compliment lol
There will always be humans in war. Without a great catastrophe that wipes out most of the humans there won’t be complete automated war. Our population is starting to spiral out of control now and i’m scared to wonder what it will be in a 100 years if we don’t get off this planet. I hate to say it but to some countries life is cheaper than all these drones. Also as technology with drones improves so will the tech to fight drones, for one a emp will shut down a all drone army in a instant but won’t effect a human at all. Or like in infinity they have combat hackers that can turn off your drones or even turn them on there owners. Some of the more wealthy nations may end up relying on automated systems but even they will have humans to back them up.
There is also bare Tau heads in the Firewarrior strike team kit if you like that look for them.
Great show thanks guys!
On drones and the like in warfare I really liked this short film and in a lot of ways it seems so very plausible;
http://futurism.com/videos/incredible-short-film-looks-frightening-potential-virtual-reality/
I’m glad Ben is having a go at an alternative paint scheme for the Bezerkers. The red always strikes me as kind of dull and a holdover from the chaos space marine days of the late 90s when they had lost their original chapters and all just fell into 4 archetypes under the gods. I much more like the flavor that they have some small amounts of their prechaos days in them
Getting so tired of these pointless back and forth arguments between Justin and Loyd. Arguing about the facial features of Tau models for like 5min, cmon.
Point taken @fox1140, But it is super important to know what a Tau looks like 🙂 That’s why we explored the subject for 2 min 13 seconds, and I for one slept easy that night 😉
Best ending of a show EVER!
You have no idea what weird stuff goes on between takes…well, maybe you will when the next blooper reel comes out 😉
Great fun guys