Weekender XLBS: The Joys Of Board Game Cafes & What’s After The Gateway Game?
July 23, 2017 by dignity
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Happy Sunay!
Full relaxation level 2 achieved!
Although a bit pricey on its retail pre-release, CMoN’s new game The Godfather is an excellent game as a next step. Strong Eric Lang rules and multiple scoring mechanisms. Looking forward to a fuller release and the discounts that will follow.
Going shopping with the other half years ago, my walking into GW (usually with my son) often felt like the boys were being dropped off at the Creche for a couple of hours so she could wander off to shop at her leisure.
I get what @dignity (Justin) means about difficulty with ‘abstraction’ when he refers to board and card games, and hooks into something Az mentioned.
Any game is a combination of various factors, primarilyly RULE MECHANICS and THEME. Many long living games are all about the ruleset with very little theme behind them; it’s the mind gymnastics and games that make them winners. On the other hand, many of us could name licensed games cynically targetted at the theme’s fans with completely inadequate rules.
If the ruleset doesn’t engage then sod the theme.
The ideal combination is when the theme is strong but is supported by the right ruleset that carries that theme, ‘the ruleset gets out of the way’ . There’s always players that will quickly suss and play the meta, but on the whole its the gentle gamers enjoying and engaging with the theme that makes it fun.
While the increasing use of minis helps to carry the theme, many board games can carry it with the use of standees or even meeples. Card games are more difficult to mesh with theme and often the graphics alone can’t take you there, and it becomes just another card mechanic game.
Some more suggestions to come…
Top recommendation for a good themed set of games with a solid theme is the North Sea Saga trilogy by Garphill games. Why?
Three different games around the Viking theme:
– Shipbuilders… a worker placement game
– Raiders… Worker placement building raiding parties to then go raiding
– Explorers… Tile laying discovery and exploit game
And if that isn’t enough, you can use the RuneSaga expansion to campaign across the three.
There’s also expansions for each of the games that add new dynamics that keeps the games fresh.
Great graphics throughout by the Miko, and fun meeples ( I’ll even forgive the horns on the helmets).
Available individually through retail, but a chance to dive in on the latest expansion KS.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/shem/explorers-of-the-north-sea-rocks-of-ruin
Since getting more into board games I’ve started following Designers like companies to ensure I’m up-to-date with their latest games. Seeing Eric Lang’s name on the Godfather title definitely got me excited as I love his work.
I think sometimes there is pressure for board games to be something you can pick up in 5-10 minutes yet still have a simple and engaging these which is why Ticket to Ride and Catan do so well. Hopefully we’ve given some idea of the variety of themes and game types that are out there should you take the extra time to dive in 🙂
Personally I can’t wait to get Blood Rage in the office and get @lloyd in for a game <3
Did anypne mention there are expansions for Blood Rage? You can get an additional clan/ 5th player expansion, additional clan members and more monsters to add to the mix.
Happy Sunday
Been another buzy week on the site
well done on the mayacast competition win and good luck in the states @rasmus mate.
Happy Sunday!
Happy Sunday all
For completeness sake Belfast is the 17th largest city in the UK. Gaming here must be on the rise as even Laverys Bar having a tabletop night!
Yea there’s also Cuckoo, Vandal and Brewbot which have all embraced games behind the bar and games nights of sorts. It’s definitely hit Northern Ireland now even if a little behind the rest of the UK. Az
My Warhammer Store supplies me with coffee, free, I’m not kidding, bloody great manager. He’s ahead of the game
Same, but I don’t drink it but plenty of others do 😀
Ahh Az, the host experience. That’s me too …. and I am picking up empty stubbies* and cleaning up afterwards…… *selfish pricks … *sobs
* stubbie = 600 mL beer bottle ….. don’t know how universal that term is
It plays here in Australia
Awww @beardragon1, don’t be sad, we should start a host support group. I was “this” close at one point to giving people named / self styled mugs to avoid dozens used in an evening 😛
Az
Ahhh mate .. They use multiple mugs!?! The filthy swine, we need that support group….. the only advantage I can think of hosting the games is 1) I don’t have to move a tonne of gear ….. and that about it. …….. I am sure we are appreciated though (*mutters to self …. they’ll miss me when I’m gone …. or maybe they won’t realise until they are being crushed by an avalanche of empty stubbies)
One group I used to play with, when ordering Pizza, beer or anything, everyone else covered the host
And it did matter more in those days – being a student with a limited beer budget
Could you not use the Gundum(sp?) As a 40k Dreadnought thingy?
Happy Sunday guys looking forward to going through it 😀
Ben is this what you’re talking about?
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Order_of_the_Bloody_Rose
In terms of colours I think if that is the way you’re going to go that would be awesome!
Whilst we’ll allow Ben his one week off of the year, we demand he films about 1 minute of himself looking at the webcam which can then be played on a loop on next week’s show.
If you played Blood Bowl the electronic game it will be easy to get into the board game.
The other thing I like is that you can get a whole team with all the tokens in one box and they are not that expensive.
Funny story: back in the mists of time (so about ’92) when I first got into 40k I wanted a dreadnought for my Blood Angels – que digging up a kit that I’d been brought back when we lived in Hong Kong, what I now know was a 1/144 scale Zaku. Looking at the Primaris Dreadnought they should be about comparable (or, you know, start using them as Knight-standins, especially the 1/100 & 1/60 scaled kits 😉 )
I have that MOM Minituras big stone erection, it’s blimmin lovely.
Now now @somegeezer, no need to go shouting about your erection… though some pics to tease @lloyd with would be great… Az
Once it’s out of the box, I’ve got it up and painted, I’ll definitely send some pics around 🙂
You are going to paint it …………the mind boggles 😀
It’ll need a goo scrub first. It doesn’t feel like there’s any mould release left on there but you can’t be too careful with these things.
the important thing is the basing to make sure it doesn’t look set on the table. I suggest thick bushes around the base, since you’re frostgraving at the moment maybe in browns and oranges for that autumnal feel
ouch
“What are you looking at on the internet, dear?”
“Some geezer’s big erection…”
😀 (biggest laugh I’ve had tonight and I’ve had a few.. thanks) .
I have some good news for you, Ben. I’ve decided to write a plog for my erection.
Lloyd’s close encounter with a Bog Troll.
@somegeezer … there is a nice follow up I could do with the washing, mould release and removing it from the box .. but I am concerned if I do, after my comments on Space Marine agressor thread earlier in the day I may get a bad reputation *. So I shall refrain , and say well played sir, you and your mighty erection stand unopposed 😉
I recently received the Dark Souls board game and have been playing it alone as well as with a number of friends, some board gamers, some war gamers and some with little experience beyond standard fare like Monopoly, Risk etc.
It turns out to be quite easy to pick up and being an enjoyable experience for anyone, despite the challenge being quite harsh. I also noticed it’s easy to tweak the rules to make the game easier or harder.
So despite being in some kind of a gamer niche thematically the simplicity of the rules allow for any kind of curious gamer to pick up the game quickly.
Thanks for another fun show guys and have to say the Blood Rage game is excellent and just waiting for CMON Japanese themed version coming out next year. Also Blood Rage has many expansions too make the game even more involved and exciting.
@bucketknight and @craddock169 – I’m curious if you guys would take time to paint minis for games like Blood Rage and Dark Souls? What is your opinion on how the mini’s quality compared to your main miniature games? Az
My painting skills are below par, shaky hand and all but there is a guy on You Tube called Sorastro’s Painting. He has some excellent skills and his tutorials are well put together and he has painted around three of the minis from the set and they look really good.
I love Sorastro’s content I must admit, find him very soothing too….
I definitely plan to paint the minis once the mood strikes me. The detail on them is great and in no way of lesser quality than ‘proper’ miniature game figures I own.
The only negative point I must mention is that the soft plastic causes some weapons to be bent. You can straighten them out a bit when playing, but that doesn’t prevent them from getting bent again when stuffed back in the box.
My friend @spectresenence has painted up the minis for Blood Rage and even all the minis he got from the Zombicide kickstarters. They came out really nice. Maybe he’ll comment on how he felt they were to paint.
Brilliant show fellas, @Llyod, when did you nick @dignity‘s goatee, and why?
@dignity, well done, your penance has been paid, however, the missus commented that “you’re a ‘weak bugger’, cos you could keep a small bit of vegemite down.” Lance & john now have the moral high, and can be classed as “honourary Aussies”. I wish @warzan could have seen that……..his comments would have been priceless!!
Vegemite is awful. Luckily for the missus you can get it in Tescos. Sadly the same isn’t true for Twisties so she she has to rely on care packages from home. Now if we could get Dim Sims we woukd both be truly happy
Played blood rage. Agree, it’s a good bridge for war gamers to cross. Too much abstraction makes games boring for me. I like games which bring you into the setting.
I’d also say a good inroad into board games for people from war games or rpg backgrounds are dungeon crawlers. I play Descent with my D&D group occasionally as a break from the campaign.
I played bloodrage this year and I did enjoy it, it didn’t knock my socks off though.
I have a friend who is interested in playing bloodrage so i’ll get my brother round with his copy, but honestly I’m a bit neutral over playing it again. turns out he has a copy of the new bloodbowl, but again i’m a bit so so about it despite being a massive fan back in the day. the league play is where the game really shines but the meta is so well known it can be a bit predictable depending on which teams you play. if you don’t know the game though and you don’t go reading internet forums you will have a blast with it.
both of these games are good fun and don’t let me put you off, it may well be a taste thing. i’ll likely be getting both on the table in the not to distant and will no doubt have fun.
I think your right about them being a hybrid that acts as a two way bridge.
feel you on x-wing Lloyd, really is set up like an LCG. have to buy each complete wave to be competitive or [ shudder] play online.
on the subject of LCGs and CCGs I’ve been itching to have a go all year now. but like Lloyd it’s not something I have ever done and the issue of keeping up with the meta on a competitive level is difficult for me, infinity is pretty demanding. I’m caught between wanting to give it ago and whether I really want another complex on going player vs player game in my life.
I am edging more and more towards story telling games for multiple reasons, some of which I’ve mentioned some of which Ben highlighted. so the idea of Arkham Horror or Lord of the rings when it comes to LCGs is something that real appeals, will get these even if I don’t take the plunge with player vs player.
dead of winter looks very cool, found it when Ben told me to check out Ashes. a lets play perchance Az?
Regarding X-Wing, FFG has tweaked the rules to make past waves competitive. There is nothing in Wave XI that is a must have and some rules changes have made older lists like x7 still viable.
X-Wing is a collectable miniatures game. However, there are plenty of scenarios so you can play without having to keep up with the latest Meta. You can also play Epic without caring about the meta and simply play the Epic scenarios. There are a lot of scenario based play going on now and not just competitive play.
A super interesting point around the replay-ability of Blood Rage as I think this is where board games can struggle compared to miniature / army building / continually updated hobbies.
As a long time Netrunner player I am very for the Living Card Game (LCG) format over Collectible Card Games (CCG) simply due to the level playing field and clear investment levels. That being said it makes LCGs more closely related to buying regular updates for your army, so finding the funds to keep up with it and another hobby certainly isn’t easy, especially if you need to purchase the latest pack for 20 cards when you really only want 1 for your faction or style of play.
I own Dead Winter so definitely a consideration for a Let’s Play though I know we have a lot of more recent releases in plan too 🙂 Ashes is an odd one, have yet to play and looks stunning but have felt the state of the game overall hasn’t fully fleshed out so have been biding my time. Az
Did I mention the Bloodrage expansions? There were lots on the KS and I can see a couple on Amazon…
@Llyod — The X-Wing Miniatures game was Released September 14, 2012. This September it will be 5yrs. There have been only about 2 Wave released per year and if you do not care about Epic play it has been less.
While I agree that the game has a lot of Meta it is not all that much. It also only matters if you play competitively. If you are playing at club you can put together a good list to play fairly easily without keeping up with the latest wave of releases. If you play casual you can simply download and play the scenarios found on the FFG Official Forums, BBG X-Wing sub-forum or find the Heroes of the Aturi Cluster Facebook Forum. You can play the Heroes of the Aturi Cluster Scenario over and over again and have a different experience each time and it has linked campaigns.
If you separate the competitive play from the casual or club play you will find unless you are trying to go to the worlds tournaments, the meta and releases do not matter. I have played lists I never thought should have won at my local club level championships and have won.
I find the same for Netrunner. Unless you are trying to go to a championship, you don’t need to keep up. In fact, depending on how often you play, the core set and 1 or 2 extensions is all that you need for a very long time.
Happy sunday guys!
happy sunday I agree board inserts are annoying I would rather have baggies small boxes much easier to fit back in the box .
with games like dommion and lord of the ring s card game .with expansion I use big plastic storage boxes with dividers ,
I’m very lucky to have a local gaming store that is also an excellent café. The only miniatures game they stock is X-Wing, as they’re predominantly focused on card and board games, but they have a really good range of cakes, sandwiches and hot and cold drinks. They have loads of tables and host a ton of events. They even have specific family friendly days. I’ll often take my son in. Even if we don’t buy a new game that day, we’ll take a seat, buy a couple of slices of cheesecake and play a game from their in-store library.
It also helps that the staff are friendly and helpful, without being pushy. All in all, it’s a great shop.
Gamer cafe’s are a cool way to get non gamers to enjoy a game or two. The shop mentioned in today’s show seems to have it figured out. Serve and under-served area and then up the ante by diversifying the customer base. Maybe the guys can do a remote visit there and show the shop off a bit more.
A great XLBS love the ship & the new momminitures that are coming out.
A nice crossover game is Alien vs Predator, especially now that the minis in the game have be made as unicast and consequently lowered the cost. It works as a boardgame and then the same minis and most of the mechanics transfer nicely to the new miniatures game AVP: Unleashed.
Oh, and @lloyd, I never thought I’d be happy to hear I had a lurker.
You’re missing the point @lloyd , it’s ribbed for _her_ pleasure…
Another great show, though a question. Is the XLBS Weekender getting shorter than the front of house Weekender? Cause I thought it was meant to be the other way round.
they’re both meant to be about 90 mins long, but they vary depending on what they’re talking about and how many tangents they run off on.
Hey, @chosenman44, they’re supposed to be about an hour long each, but we can’t help our selves 🙂 – The Irish love to talk! lol
But there is no rule about which is longer. They just are what they are based on what we are talking about and what guests we have in the studio.
I know
@dignity Good choice with the MG-Jesta! It has the best price to complexity ratio of all the kits I have seen! My 9 year old loves giant robots so I got him this kit for his birthday so we could make it together. It took us a few months working on it a little each week but the final thing is amazing. The way those hands are one piece just blew me away!
Hey i built a gundam kit on Sunday as well
http://imgur.com/Ya6fYRC
Happy Sunday. Or Wednesday 😀
I always loved the idea of a boardgame cafe/bar. And maybe upstairs a room with like 3 wargaming tables, people can rent per hour. But I just havn’t had the guts to drop everything and start it, because I think it will be very hard to make it work around here.
Although I agree with @brennon that the Lord of the Rings setting probably has a wider appeal as a gateway game than Cthulhu, my experience of beating my head against a wall trying to play the LotR LCG is that is indeed very difficult, and the deck building tends to happen between the scenarios so there is no real sense of persistence or progression; Maybe you will have a core deck that you will use over the course of a cycle, with a sideboard of cards you will drop in for each scenario, but even if you play a lot of scenarios in order it feels like playing of multiplayer video game levels that take place on single player maps, and your deck is just the loadout you pick for that map.
Arkham Horror does a much better job of weaving a narrative and even though certain scenarios are pretty darned hard, it doesn’t matter so much because if you fail, you still progress on to the next scenario, keeping your experience which you can use to upgrade your persistent deck. There will simply be a price for that failure that will in someway influence the next scenario or perhaps the conclusion to the campaign. Of course, since this is an FFG LCG you still have the same relentless release cycle but the advantage here is that unlike LotR or Netrunner, Arkham Horror is a much newer game so catching up (if you have that collectors gene) isn’t such a daunting task. Will it have the lasting appeal of the LotR game? Who can say. Certainly when you consider the game from a replayability point of view, it is like comparing a memorable single player campaign (Arkham Horror scenarios) with some great multiplayer maps (LotR scenarios). In the long run, you could end up playing LotR more but only if that is the kind of experience you are looking for.
Of course, while the story content is specific to each scenario and / or campaign, the pool of investigators and player cards is only going to get bigger so if you want to build the ‘best’ deck for your character, there will always be that drive to get at least one copy of everything. If that sounds too exhausting, @lloyd the other option is the excellent Pathfinder Adventure Card Game which is also fully cooperative.
It follows a similar release structure to the FFG games in that there is one big box release followed by a number (five, to be exact) smaller purchases on a monthly or bi-monthly cycle to ‘complete’ the story, but while you can in theory cherry pick some cards from one set to re-use them in another there really isn’t any need. Thus, Rise of the Runelords, Skull & Shackles, Wrath of the Righteous etc feel like self contained games with enough variety that you could reply them several times without feeling like you needed to invest in the next and with 30-35 scenarios in each set, it really does feel like embarking on an RPG campaign. Plus there are dice. Everybody likes rolling dice.
wow i just checked out the mom miniatures site and their products are amazing. some great models and the terrain is brilliant. i really like the art style. so happy you brought it to my attention.