Weekender XLBS: Clear Bases – Yay Or Nay & A Battle Report Challenge
August 16, 2015 by lloyd
For some website features, you will need a FREE account and for some others, you will need to join the Cult of Games.
Or if you have already joined the Cult of Games Log in now
What difference will having a FREE account make?
Setting up a Free account with OnTableTop unlocks a load of additional features and content (see below). You can then get involved with our Tabletop Gaming community, we are very helpful and keen to hear what you have to say. So Join Us Now!
Free Account Includes
- Creating your own project blogs.
- Rating and reviewing games using our innovative system.
- Commenting and ability to upvote.
- Posting in the forums.
- Unlocking of Achivments and collectin hobby xp
- Ability to add places like clubs and stores to our gaming database.
- Follow games, recommend games, use wishlist and mark what games you own.
- You will be able to add friends to your account.
What's the Cult of Games?
Once you have made a free account you can support the community by joing the Cult of Games. Joining the Cult allows you to use even more parts of the site and access to extra content. Check out some of the extra features below.
Cult of Games Membership Includes
- Reduced ads, for a better browsing experience (feature can be turned on or off in your profile).
- Access to The Cult of Games XLBS Sunday Show.
- Extra hobby videos about painting, terrain building etc.
- Exclusive interviews with the best game designers etc.
- Behind the scenes studio VLogs.
- Access to our live stream archives.
- Early access to our event tickets.
- Access to the CoG Greenroom.
- Access to the CoG Chamber of Commerce.
- Access the CoG Bazarr Trading Forum.
- Create and Edit Records for Games, Companies and Professionals.
Supported by (Turn Off)
Supported by (Turn Off)
Supported by (Turn Off)
First
Happy Sunday!
Happy Sunday!
I could gurn about FW’s Chaos Dwarf AoS warscrolls and how the nerfed the best army in the game, but there’s a forum already doing that lol.
We used clear bases for our first wave of Deadzone and they work great at showing off the Mats and terrain. The only downside is you don’t get the fun of decorating your bases.
BoW batreps? Yes!
What about clear bingo chips/winks?
http://www.gameparts.net/bingo_chips.htm
They have rounded edges so you don’t have the issue of reflection on the edge?
I find see-through bases to be like the plastic clear straps on ‘strapless’ bras. It just stands out to me even more. No matter how thin the base is, I think clear bases look ugly. I also consider the base to be part of the mini and would much rather a plain black base than a ‘clear’ one or even an invisible one.
Like you @redben I much prefer my bras to have no plastic!
Not a fan of the wired ones either… Very uncomfortable!!!
Just a nice plain black number from primark for me any day of the week 😉
Have you tried a sports bra? Comfort and support!
Always struggled to find one to fit my girth mate 😉
There are specialist shops just for men like you …http://shop.hommemystere.com/categories/Bras/
It’s the hormones in your Relentless! 😉
for clear bases you could get some of the blister plastic and try that.
I’ve always been tempted to use all sorts of things for bases that will bring the army together. One day I will do a team with matching poker chips for bases.
All I know about Warhammer Forge is that the monsters didn’t really sell but their Chaos Dwarf range was really popular.
I’m a little disappointed about the CD warscrolls myself but I’ll keep on adding to my Warhammer Forge Chaos Dwarfs as they are an awesome looking bunch of minis.
Yeah I wont be playing AoS but that wont stop me from picking up more of FW’s CD range, sure they’ll get used in KoW but I’ll be keeping my Chaos Dwarf models pure GW/FW and fluff wise I’ll just say they’re from an alternative world that blew up.
I’m thinking of shelling out for a second set of FW CD’s specifically for Kings of War. I think the FW range pretty much covers a good majority of Mantics units.
As much as I try to love the Mantic Abyssal Dwarves something just doesn’t sit right with me aesthetically. Except that new Golem, he’s a step in the right direction, but I’d still rather proxy them with K’dai.
The only problem with the KoW list is that they don’t incorporate the real heavy hitters like the iron demon or magma cannon, even the greater obsidian golem is a little weak compared to the k’daii destroyer.
The greater golem just doesn’t do it for me, it’s too cartoony, although I like the new iron caster and I’m glad mantic are moving away from the “big head-small leg” look of their dwarfs.
I will probably build an abyssal dwarf army but I’ll never mix the two into the same force unless I’m using them as allies, an odd thought since the two will share the same rules but it will be fluffy 🙂
Just pondering… If the ‘glowing’ edge of the clear bases is caused by the refraction of light through the perpendicular sides – would casting bases in clear resin with undercut or inward sloping slides reduce or eliminate the effect? Has anyone tried this?
As far as I’m concerned we are still modelling/gaming in the abstract where more often than not it’s the edge of the base rather than the model that counts for measuring and any ‘base-to-base’ definitions of contact. I don’t mind the slight glow compared to the usual painted edge/bevel. It’s the shiny/refection for me, so anything that can reduce that is of more interest.
Hit it with a matte spray on the clear edges, and the shininess will disappear. The edge will still be visible, of course.
Is the problem with invisible bases not that many games measure ‘base to base’? That’s difficult if you can’t see the base.
Happy Sunday,
Nice show, I like the idea of the challenge games but I can’t seem to find a forum in the show notes?
Failing that I may just ping Lloyd up about the club on the Sunday.
For the clear bases have you looked at the possibilities of clear plasticard, it comes in a ton of thicknesses, so it may be easier to find something that has the sturdiness you want
Another consideration is that many of the gaming systems are using the technique is measuring movement and range from the edge of the base. If the edge of the base is ‘invisible’ then this will slow down that mechanic. A compromise could be to paint this refractive edge with the unit or team colour in a style that shows a solid ring of ‘influence’ or paint it with a pattern of say triangles or dots that would draw your attention away from the glow but would seem to be more of a schematic boundary like many video games use.
That’s a great point, and a brilliant idea. Wouldn’t it look cool to have, say, a bright red ring around the clear base of a Nomad model, or Blood Angel? Thumbs up!
I actually picked up a pair of the Xuron spure cutters from a model shop. Work way better than the GW ones, which I found just pinched and tore.
So, Warren pulls out some cheap, plastic thing that pretends to be an airbrush and I think to myself “man, his standards are slipping”.
But then, I realise that this could be the answer to my varnishing (and possibly undercoating) issues!
I really hate having to clean varnish out of airbrushes; having something as maintenance free as this is going to be brilliant.
Happy Sunday!
I love the idea of clear bases for certain games and mini’s. I think it would work really well for games with dark boards.. i.e. Dungeon Crawlers, Some Sci-fi stuff.
For display mini’s I think you totally need decorative bases, and Kings of War unit diorama’s. As a bloodbowl I think you’d lose sight of mini’s on the shiny green board if they were clear
Well maybe with a paint that contains metal your idea with magnets in the feet might work?
if you want to check out newish materials that aren’t too pricey try http://www.mindsetsonline.co.uk good wee site.
If I was going to go clear bases, Renedra do 25mm clear plastic bases, 50 For £3. But that is the only size they do. Stuff like blister plastic and Acetate wouldn’t be rigid enough, and liable to get bent.
Personally, I don’t like clear basing. I also think that a base can add to a model especially in terms of adding a contrast colour, further enhancing a colour scheme. They also say for Napoleonics – flags, faces, bases. Get these right and you’ll have an impressive looking army on the table, even if your paint jobs are done quickly and to a lower standard.
Boardgames?..
I think I could bring up Cluedo next weekend
boredgame….
I’ve tried clear bases for my Bolt Action Germans as I wanted them to look okay on any battleground, urban, rural, forest, mud etc. in the end tho I wasn’t happy with the shiny- ness.
I also realised more figures than I thought come with integrated bases (both metal and plastic).
That’s really too much hassle then.
Instead I simplified/ standardised my basing generally and mixed four big tubs of basing material coloured in with appropriate pigments.
Urban Rubbel
Ostfront Mud
European Battleground
Desert
This serves all my demands and takes under 30 seconds per figure, no painting required.
Anyhow, should I ever finish one of my BA armies (search the hobby section.. There are a few!) I’ll let you know, I’d certainly could pop over to NI for a few days. I still regret to have missed the legendary BA Bootcamp and would love to make up for this..
I am a no on clear bases for 99% of miniatures but for some flying models I see the benefit. Base ‘art’ is half the fun of presenting a fully finished miniature.
Oh this easy airbrush optionappeals to my lazy side! Just ordered a set and got it for 2/3 the cost you mentioned so even more of a bargain. Like you, i have a lot of terrain to paint and will send you images of the finished work.
For lazy painting I would have to recommend future wash.Makes life so simple
For clear bases would heavy duty laminate pouches put through a laminator work? They seem to go very clear when put through
On the topic of clear bases, I have about a hundred in my hobby closet that I haven’t used yet because I am also still struggling with whether or not I should use them and if so, where they might be the most appropriate.
Right now my inclination is to only use them on board or tile-based games.. things like Blood Bowl, Sedition Wars, Imperial Assault, Super Dungeon Explore and Myth. The benefit is that it allows the great artwork to show through and it means that the mini will always feel as though it is “there” rather than on a patch of grass that happens to be in the middle of the derelict space station etc. The problem with this is that unless the mini itself has a very striking colour scheme and / or the tile art is quite subdued or low in detail, from 3-4 feet away you probably won’t be able to see any of the miniatures at all and even when sitting at the table, it will be easy to forget to move a smaller miniatures etc. As nicely highlighted by Justin’s AvP minis, the base also acts a bit like a “selection ring” in a RTS – a circle or square that is a consistent colour that actually helps to frame the miniature visually when you are looking at it (or for it!) on the tabletop. I think if you have a bunch of rat minis on clear bases on your Dungeon Saga tiles, you are always going to forget to move them simply because they are hard to spot!
When it comes to wargames that are not for tile-based games.. Warzone, 40k, Warmahordes, Bolt Action and the like, I think the base serves another purpose as a unifying element and I feel like an army of 20 – 30 models just doesn’t look finished without “proper” bases, even if their’ snow rock scenic bases totally clash with the grassy tabletop the minis are placed on. Another consideration is that for many of the games I have had the opportunity to play, the surface beneath the mini is the bare wood of a table top, or perhaps a single coloured board and I think I’d rather have painted bases than worry about about letting that show through.
As for “Getting Shit Done” @warzan I totally know what you mean. On those rare occasions where I have hobby time I suffer from a kind of paralysis. I have a dozen ongoing projects and another three dozen waiting in the wings (or rather, waiting boxed in then hobby closet) because it always feels wrong to do anything less than my best. I can’t start painting this because it isn’t assembled. It isn’t assembled because I haven’t got the right scenic bases yet and also because I haven’t finished scraping off all the mold lines and flash. So after wasting twenty minutes figuring our which project to work on, I pick up a mini, spend a little while cleaning it up and then my time is up.
With this mindset every project takes such a long time to move it forwards and now that I am fortunate enough to have a club to go to and have the chance to play a game once a week, I’ve got to move faster than that. It took me two months to paint 3 figures for my Mordheim warband. We played the entire campaign in that time! Now that warband is consigned to a little box, 3 guys painted to a decent standard, 4 guys primed and 3 that are bare metal and stuck to 2p coins because I insisted on sculpting each base out of greenstuff and of course, I didn’t have time to do all of them.
I’m starting to think this is why I like X-Wing so much!
..also, this is why I have been able to justify spending money on good hobby tools such as my airbrush. Yes, I can prime my minis with a spray can for a lot less, but if 1 in 4 minis is screwed up by this process (fuzzy, grainy, too thick..) then I know my next couple of “hobby hours” spread over the following month will be wasted trying to scrub the paint off to get that mini back to where I was so that I can try again. At least with an airbrush I know I can put down a good, reliable undercoat and perhaps even the base coat on my minis or terrain pieces.
Guys, who there plays X-Wing and FOW Nam & AIW? Want to fill the form in but no idea who to challenge.
Pigments, a tip I picked up is using humbrol decal fix, mix the pigments up with the decal fix and apply. When dry its sealed, however if you need to move it around as your not happy with the lay of the pigments it reactivates with water. Check out the humbrol you tube channel for a short vid showing the method.
I’m also reaching the just get stuff done stage, colour primes, pick out couple of details, go back when time allows.
Non-glare acrylic? It’s not perfect, but it looks damn good. It’s used mostly for protecting art pieces, although I’m not sure how thick or thin it can be.
How about
http://www.theplasticshop.co.uk/polycarbonate-sheet-0-75mm-1mm-1.5mm-thick.html
Submitted the form..
Glad to play anyone of you chaps so don’t take my ‘challenge’ personally 🙂
Even a Tank War game against John..!
As long as it’s BA and epic fun I’m in.
Happy ! Sunday!
on the bases front I think the clear bases are perfect for gaming to undertake what ever terrain is underneath, basing I would only use for actual model/painting miniatures for show where the base is part of the project.
@warzan I’m not a big fan of the clear bases, I quite like building bases. Sometimes I go with a very straight forward base, though other times I quite like putting together a fancy elaborate base. It all depends on how fast I want to get the mini on the table. Though these days I don’t generally paint large armies, I tend to paint what ever I like the look of. Then find a use for the mini in one of the rule sets I’m playing. I started playing Frostgrave and managed to construct 4 war bands from existing painted minis. I’m making an exception with this, as I’ve started delving into Napoleonics at 28mm and 1/72, so I will be painting units and an army quite soon.
Well the stuff that clear heals is made up of might work. 🙂 Also as for the pinning a heavy material at the bottom of the leg, I don’t think that there is anything that is dense enough that is not also radioactive. I checked the periodic table.
On another note, perspex type material might look better if the outside edges were rounded. (Bit like warmachine bases) I know this is a lot of work and a special process would have to be done in order to get this. I think it would improve the refractive light at the ends.
Super glue may also discolour the perspex as well :(. Give it that misty look.
Yeah I think the warmill site has some tips on working with their clear bases. Supposedly the super glue gel is okay as long as you use it sparingly and (presumably) pin the model too.
happy sunday
I have a tip for you, I use Halfords screen wash to clean brushes and add to paint for airbrushing, last one I bought was £5 a gallon?
It’s probably the same but I have always used Methylated spirit to then my paints for airbrushing
Aren’t you filling the immediate area with an invisible mist of meths vapour? I’d hate to try that without a lot of ventilation and a suitable facemask.
Hah yeah totally but with some paints it’s the only way to work. I agree a mask is a must, though!
Unless the gameplay relies on some info being displayed on the base then no to clear bases. never look any cop in my opinion, even flyers i prefer to get creative and model some terrain feature to support the flyer rather than the clear plastic stick that comes with most.
Clear bases are great for board games.
In any other context, I think the result looks less like a model and more like a gaming piece.
Basing gives all of the models in the army a context. While “invisible” bases should in theory allow your terrain to do this, in reality, it does the opposite.
I also think with clear bases, paint jobs need to be better. They put the mini more in the spotlight.
Conventional basing can make really basic paint jobs passable.
Another point about clear bases. For some reason, it works much better for science fiction miniatures than it does for historical or fantasy miniatures.
I don’t know why, but I’d consider it if I played, for example, infinity.
Should you add Dropzone or Infinity I would be game for a bootcamp follow up battlereport
The airbrush Warren is showing is available in Halfords
You can buy extra jars £4 for 4 at
http://www.airbrushonline.co.uk/4-jars-for-spraycraft-sp1020-61-p.asp
Clear bases are fine for an rpg mini or dungeon crawlers were you’ll be playing on paper, but if you’ve got a coating of sand, or even some types of flock on your gaming board they’ll dull pretty quickly. Going outside the box, there’s stuff called aerogel which can be almost entirely transparent and non reflective, but it would work out about 20 quid for a 25mm base.
I’m going to have to acquire that type of airbrush soon, I have a bunch of crates etc piling up for infinity that need prettying up, and the best part is all the hoses, compressor etc will work with a gravity fed brush with a fine nozzel or precession work.
@warzan / @johnlyons does the propellant stuff from that kit and/or windex mixed paint melt polystyrene at all?
Tend to use 2mm clear bases for Board Game miniatures and skirmish figures – the quality of play mats really needs to show through when the figure is on it.
In regard to acetate, clamshell packaging is your friend, reasonably rigid, easy to work with (a 25mm art punch will work with some effort, and come free with some miniatures.
How about this for basing idea….
Cover your gaming board with magnetic sheets. Flock it and grass it all. Then just put magnets in the feet of your models and then you have better than invisible bases, you have no bases at all :D:D:D:D:D:D:D
A thin sheet of metal under the table or gaming mat and magnets sunk into the feet of the models would probably work. I’d be interested to see BoW do some experiments on this.
BoW Gurn. I love the competitions that are run, but feel if possible it should be for Backstagers only, as we are the ones that put tin into the box. I know that most that follow BoW are in the backstage, but those that are not still get a chance to win from BoW without contributing to the community. Fully appreciate the initial show for all, as that is how I found BoW, and without it the community wouldn’t grow. But I never for one instance thought I would be able to enter comps, I thought that would be a members things.
I’ve been thinking of basing solutions and have considered clear bases. I’m not a fan of ‘pop’ and part of what i like about the idea is that in theory the minis become part of the momentary scene one has created on the gaming board rather than odd isolated vignettes. However, there are, as one might expect, two choices on the market at the moment: flat clear bases, which could cause problems if my gaming terrain isn’t flat; and the raised clear bases from Wyrd. Because the Wyrd bases are raised it ruins the ‘not there’ effect and it means that the minis are elevated off the ground, which is something else i want to prevent. I think the Wyrd bases are still my preferred option, of those currently on the market.
So i have been coming up with my own solutions to resolve the problems i have with bases. The problems are:
1. I want the minis to be part of the terrain within which they are situated as much as possible.
2. I want the minis to be as high as they should be ( i like true scale ) and therefore i don’t want them elevated off the ground. I want them standing on or in the ground.
3. I want the base to perform the functions of being a place to measure from, an indicator of facing, and an indicator of 90 and 180 degree ‘arcs’, as well as some other things that i won’t consider in this post.
My current ‘design’, as it were, is a ring engraved with a forward arrow and thin lines for the 90 and 180 degree arcs. The hollow centre of the ring-base means the mini is to some extent integrated into the terrain it is placed on, whilst the ring-base performs the functions listed above in 3. . At the moment i’m thinking the ring-base would ideally be clear, and to some extent visible such that it is easy to find but not overt. Perhaps my final consideration is how to attach a mini to the ring base whilst both having the mini standing at ground level and the base being substantial enough. I’m currently thinking through possibilities and i don’t have a finalised solution as such, but the thought process led me to another thought…
I could have a clear ( ring- ) base which i semi decorate. I’m thinking of scenic pieces which wouldn’t be out of place anywhere, and that the mini could be interacting with or have interacted with. They could be ‘chunky’ scenic pieces such as a dead body or a line of ammo, or it could be more subtle, such a bit of slashing mud under and around a running mini’s foot, or … a rock they are standing on. In other words the kind of things you find on bases now, just minus the flock and sand and what have you ( and perhaps connecting the mini to the base ). As i say, this still very much in the design process and early stages at that.
If BOW could find a good clear material that would be good for me.
Hi @totsuzenheni sounds interesting! The ring base thing would also help models hook over some terrain features that they may normally slide off of as well.
A compromise may be the to evolve the acetate idea since they are made to be printable in deskjet printers. It would be easy to come up with a design with arcs marked on and/or a design that looks like a HUD blip around the models base. It may be possible to cut some areas of the acetate out more centrally as well but may increase the amount of edges too to make it more noticeable. Then again a clever design of holes may break up the circular look enough to make it blend in better! Worth experimenting on that for sure.
It’s on my list of things to do and i’ll be sure to report back with any progress. I think my starting point will be to make some simple mock up out of some mounting card or whatever i can easily lay my hands on and see if i can make the ringbase concept work in and of itself, and then move onto the possibility of making them clear. I’ve been reading what others have been saying about scratching.of clear materials and i’m wondering if the ringbase concept would work better with something like a ‘HUD blip’ type of concept in a smoky or opaque material. I think that might locate the mini easily but still put the mini in the landscape. I’ve also been thinking about what people have been saying with regard to magnets and so i’m also thinking about magnetising the bases and mini so that i can ‘reveal’ blips ( ringbases i’m using as blips ) by simply putting the miniature on top.
It looks like the ring idea and indeed other ideas such as a cross shape are already being tried out here: http://www.beastsofwar.com/groups/painting/forum/topic/clear-bases/ .
Hi here!
I’m now using clear bases on most of my minis for boardg
One small note on clear bases . . . I’ve worked with these a little with AIRCRAFT, a lot of times the bases that come with the 1:144 or 1:100 aircraft I use are clear . . .
ONE SPECK of errant paint, ONE SPECK of superglue you didn’t realize was on your finger when you were working with them, and they’re ruined. You can’t paint over anything, you can’t hide anything. Sometimes they can be cleaned (thank God I was using water-based acrylic paints) – but with most model glues, you’re pretty much toast.
boardgames. It’s great as it shows the tiles or mat underneath.
Using it with wargaming leads to somes issues:
It’s shiny and not so good looking on your flocked table.
It’s flat so the minis slide very easily as soon as the terrain is irregular.
Just a goofy idea . . . that would be inexpensive to try . . .has anyone tried the I-Phone plastic sheets you can buy to protect the pace of mobile devices? It has kind of a matte finish (at least the ones I’ve seen / purchased do). Office Depot also carries full 8.5×11 sheets of clear label paper for printers, which can be bought in matte.
Anyway, covering clear bases with this stuff might keep the transparency while getting rid of that annoying shine.
Great show again.
Basing ; Make your terrain table surface out of magnet conducters, place some small metall plates to the feet of your minis,
Even better ; you could even raise the table and use big magnets under the table so you could move your mini by moving the big magnet so your mini move magical over the table.
Amen to Warren’s “Warcry” of 23:25. My tables and miniatures will just never look as good as some people’s . . . I am at the absolute limit of storage, every game I run completely takes up the dining room . . .
I’ve only been miniature gaming for about a year and a half and I’ve thought about quitting at least 5 times (the hexes and counters are callin’ me, man . . . they’re CALLIN’ me!) I build / use everything in miniatures gaming with the view: Will this take more than an hour to do? Will this fit in a cardboard box afterward? Will this cost more than $10-$15?
Get it done. This is a hobby, not a part-time job (at least for most of us)!
@oriskany
“(the hexes and counters are callin’ me, man . . . they’re CALLIN’ me!)”
This just proves your sanity. These model guys are crazy. 😎
Apparently aerogels have an extremely low refractive index and are light and strong. Google some images of ‘aerogel disks’ and you’ll see they look like solid lumps of smoke, but you might be able to get completely clear ones. I think the coloured ones would be great for Justin’s hologram AVP army.
With respects to airbrushing and the type of airbrush to use, I find the siphon style to be superior for large projects, but if I want to build a colour gradient on a model using 1 or 2 drops of paint, I’ve got to use the gravity fed airbrush… I find them easy to clean if you have wetwipes and they allow a super small amount of pigment and tend to mess up if you want to try to fill the cup… Of course I also use india ink to basecoat black and then build my gradients using Daler-Rowney inks or Testors airbrish pigments
@warzan, mate i have 2 suggestions regarding your basing issue,
1) try making the bases out of laminate material, that way you can adjust the thickness/sturdiness and size of the base you want.
2) in regards to your “no base” idea…..before you make up a BOW battle table, put down a thin sheet of tin/light weight(but magnetic) metal. Then you can put small rare earth magnets in the feet of your minis, and ……NO Bases required…. ( OK this idea will require time & effort)
what about the clear plastic sheets that are used in plastic vacuum molding? i dont remember what is called, but its rigid
IIRC from my school days, just about any thermo reactive material can be vac formed, I assume you mean Acrylic, but clear Polystyrene sheet from the hobby store may work, and you can glue most minis down with regular poly glue.
For clear bases, I don’t think a normal 2-3mm acrylic is that bad
Where was infinity on that list guys…..
Rounded lips on the clear bases! won’t stop refraction, but could disguise it. Somebody prototype it, please!
Litko here in the states makes different size and thickness of bases
http://www.litko.net/categories/Bases-%26-Base-Bottoms/Acrylic-Bases/
Happy Sunday!
I like the new Forge World site. It really looks clean and easy to navigate.
btw. Nice tank @lloyd
Hey @warzan that sounds like Steve from Barwell Bodyworks who is a massive user of Badger paints.
Not sure I would go for a single action, but I do agree that siphon fed airbrushes have a place – I use a Badger anthem 155 all the time that can do the paint pot swapping you were talking about. The only disadvantage to using a siphon fed brush is you have to run them at a higher PSI to get paint to run through them. If you use this on detail work you will spider paint all over the place – the key is using the right product for the right job.
I am wondering however, why you use a spray can primer when you have access to multiple airbrushes? Vallejo and Badger make surface primer that is dirt cheap and goes for miles and it comes in multiple colours. Also you could probably use ghost tints to create the same sort of effect as the model mates.
Watch out using windex/windolene mixed with paint as it will put ammonia in the air so make sure you are in a well ventilated area. Lot’s of people use it as a medium/thinner though so it does work. A slightly less nasty substance is Klear floor polish.
If you ever want to chew my ear on the subject, poke me on facebook
I use the Vallejo brand surface primers and they are very good, inexpensive, and you can use them for more than just primer.
I can see the benefit, but pretty much clear bases don’t appeal to me at all. I enjoy the hobby part of basing which ties the miniature into a narrative, even if that then means the base is at odds with the environment I’m gaming on at the time.
With clear bases to be perfectly transparent it would need a material with a refractive index equal to air and a high angle of acceptance for full transmission of light. The refractive index is a material property and not dependant on the thickness of the material.
Refractive index is a material property, and has nothing to do with thickness.
What you are balancing is the thickness of the lip i.e. the surface which light will propagate out from, and the refractive index and how well it bends light entering from the other surfaces.
I would take a page out the Terraclips manual, as they used to have clear plastic clips but moved to a clear smoke colour. It was still clear, but reduced the glare caused by refraction.
Im my experience airbrushes work best for small batches of models. Preferably one or two, or priming 6 to 10.
I got a really good deal on a set of cheap airbrushes (which I replace with higher quality ones) and you gave me an idea to use them for washes! Add some flow-aid, water, thinner, and some pigment to create a wash!
If you control the spray you would potentially do some really interesting things with it. With a bit of thinner you could do what Warren was mentioning with model mates!
Could you please make a hobby lab with that cheap airbrush, i really want to buy it and i don’t know what that heck is a windolyn… ( maybe it has other name around here but is freaking hard to find it without know exactly what it is ). I WANT THIS I HAVE TONS OF MINIS TO BASECOAT! Ok… i’m calm now. Thanks!
I suspect it is the same as Windex widow cleaning solution. I use Windex to great effect myself.
In order to make a material disappear in a normal gaming environment, you just need a clear (or nearly clear) solid with an index of refraction that matches air (about n=1.00). The bending of light is measured by the difference between the indices of the two materials on either side of the boundary between the two materials. Acrylic’s refractive index is about n=1.50. There are aerogels with an index of refraction on par (n=1.05) with air and are nearly invisible at the 1-3mm thicknesses we would be using for this application.
Another great episode guys. Again Im happy to be a backer!
@warzan, if I was living on your side of the ocean, I’ d really like to team-up with you and bring the WAAAAGH! to those fantastic imperial guards of yours!
I’m with you for the “get it done” side of the hobby as well… My friends often give me the “but you can do way better, we’ve seen you do it…” but I’m choosing my battles, you know… I put a lot of energy in my orks but, for the other stuff I buy, I clean, I paint and I don’t get anything else untill it’s done…
Transparent Aluminium! Scotty invented it in 1984…
On the subject of clear bases I have one word for you: Scratches. You’re moving round on all sorts of surfaces and the underside will get scratched and scuffed and its goint to show up and look horrible eventually. Look at the surface that red acitated marine is stood on.
@lawnor Yeah this will defo be an issue on textured surfaces. A harder substance would be better on them but more brittle as well so perhaps couldn’t go too thin. Acetates are not expensive and v easy to replace but still not the perfect scenario lol.
I like to magnetize my minis, so clear bases are no option for me. Also I think that metal and resin minis are difficult to attach (eg with use of greenstuff) without destroying the transparent optics.
I think clear bases are fine, even perhaps ideal but then, at the risk of boring everyone – too late, I’m not really a miniatures player.
Happy Sunday guys!
Personally I lean towards the “bases are works of art” side. Clear bases don’t really appeal to me, I think of bases as part of the model, the prettier the better!
Thanks for another outstanding show gang, always a blast to hang out with you after church. Warren, the Xuron tools are great, high quality tools. I’ve used them for years and have always got great performance from them. As for your new airbrush, I have a similar cheap model and its great. I also have a high quality syphon fed single action and a high quality grav fed double action and they are all great tools for specific jobs. As is said the right tool for the job makes the job easier.
The clear basing system is not for me. I do not like the look of them, and will not be using a clear base for my minis. With that said use what you like. There are so many ways to make this hobby your own and I appreciate that about wargaming. Even the plain black bases of Justins army have the right to exist. Would not use it myself, but if its what you like then go for it. I’m reminded of an article in the long gone Midwest Wargamers Assoc. Newsletter, how everybody games differently, and makes their armies tailored to their style. It added that not every gamer is in the hobby to play. Some enjoy painting, others scenery, others the aspect of researching, and on and on. No doubt Warren that you are the gamer, doing what it takes just to get playing. I have a good friend that loves painting. He can paint like a machine, keeping painting logs and setting weekly painting goals, usually with a minimum of 30 figures a week! But this gentleman has not played a game in 30+ years, though he has plenty of everything to fill a 20×20 foot table with loads left over. This is a great hobby, with many great folk, all with their own view of what the hobby should be. You gotta love that! Play On!
how would you feel about painting the edge, 1mm perspex is expensive, 2 or 3mm thick is cheaper.
One of the guys at the Dropzone Commander boot camp turned up with his resistance army on perspex bases. They looked great
i’m trying to have a mid life crisis, meaning I’ve justified spending money on hobby stuff that I would never have considered when I was a kid: quality paints, tools, scenery, even an airbrush!
Trouble is, I’m now worry about learning how to use it all.
Still, I finally got to do a good bout of hobbying this weekend. Put together my first Dropzone Commander army last night and took it to the Coastal Assault tournament today. The first games I’ve played of DZC and the first games I’ve played in ages.
It was super fun. I even managed to win a game!
What about making the whole gaming area magnetic, the board would be a metal sheet with the terrain on top, then adding really strong pin magnets to the feet of all the models, the bigger models could use larger magnets for more support but making sure the magnets were strong enough to bind thought the terrain. However you could always add metal plats into the terrain so there was no problem with connection throughout the gaming area.
Also this way you would always have upright models with no base needed that wouldn’t get knocked over when the table gets hit or knocked and when traveling and storing models all you would need it a metal tray and they would stay up right and not damage the paint work, easy to store and play.
Happy Sunday!
@warzan i recommend you the aztek airbrush line from testors,
fast cleaning since there is no needle only nozzle change, the cleaning is very fast, is single action and double action at the same time, adjusting the wheel in the back, is gravity or syphon fed, and very fast, i have been using the resin body model for years now with cheap and expensive paint with very good results. the only thing you dont get with this airbrush is the precision of an infinity 0.15mm
Happy late sunday (i went whale watching today)!
I think i would go for clear basing for boardgames, you have nice art on the tiles and with a standard base, you loose/hide what the tiles are a bit. A clear base lets you enjoy the tiles more… I know clear bases would solve a time issue for me, i always end up basing my minis but, sometime months later after there finished!
See you next week.
@warzan thanks for the mention dude!
I wonder if printing a super fine pattern on the acetate may help it blend in eg pop it in the printer and print the sheet with a very low density grayscale (one notch above white). May help to stop glare as well. Varnish didn’t help. Just frosted it.
Just spotted a post on Ash Barker Artist…..facebook page (guerilla miniature games). He found a circular punch cutter and used it to cut disks from textured card….instant cobblestones. Wonder if doing this with acetate would slightly curve the edge downwards so as the white band from the edge is less obvious.
A thought on cutting acetate. get a Craft hole punch, they come in various sizes. Make sure you cut the acetate into a small square before punching as you might bend, crease, or crinkle the rest of a full sheet as you punch out a circle.
Not sure if it would work but the acetates used for laminating pages is slightly thicker than standard acetate. Might be worth a try.
In order to go completely off bases, you could magnetize the feet of the mini and have a metal table. Not very practical. It would work for a diorama. Probably not work for a game board. However, you could have custom bases tied to the table theme, then switch out the bases from table to table via magnetized feet.
Actually, I am okay with having my entire army based is nearly the same theme or at least color and texture. This ties the whole army together perfectly. Now, I just need to paint everything. I have way too much to build and paint.
I want to play. I do enjoy the hobby. I do enjoy painting. However, I want more game time.
Very tempted by the Battle Report Challenge as I have loads of boardgames … how does Zombicide sound, or the classic Squad Leader from Avalon Hill?
Zombicide would be great
I am not so sure about the clear base thing. I do think if I had as many games and hobbies going as you guys do then it would be something to really think about. Or I suppose if you are far more interested in the gaming than the painting side of the hobby. I was a massive WHFB and WH40K player / collector / painter who stepped back from the hobby many years ago. Now coming back to the hobby I am perplexed with the large number of choices I have to go with. I have figured I have room in my hobby time for 1 historical, 1 fantasy and 1 Sci-Fi. I have settled on Saga for historical at this point because I love the era, and what’s available miniatures wise. I have done a lot of converting and basing to make some epic characters and I am very satisfied with the end result. This is possible because compared to WHFB it is a low model count game. Now with fantasy I am tossing up between KoW, Sigmar or Warmachine. I am leaning towards Warmachine because of the models characters (although I am not a huge fan of steam punk, there is enough fantasy / almost sci-fi (large warjacks) to grab my interest. Like mentioned in previous editions of the show .. I need to get more into the fluff to make the final decision. At the end of the day whatever I choose I think I will want to take the time to make the bases tell the story and add coherency to the look of the forces (e.g. all in snow). If I had the size of the forces you guys have, though, I would be looking to make everything as quick and easy as possible 🙂
hahaha @lloyd got homework 😉
tanks are looking great Lloyd
what no DUST batreps!!!
I was never a fan of clear bases but having seen the work Phil of @gbtpodcast has done on his Guildball teams I think I’m converted. I don’t even mined the lip/edge as I think it helps with measuring especially in Guild ball.
I love the idea of clears bases for a gaming perspective, i don’t think the edge showing is a problem if anything a slight benefit, its a point most game systems measure from.
I had the idea of magnetizing the minis to clear bases and then having a scenic diorama at home they could live on, kind of best of both worlds. I never went any further than the initial thought, many because everyone laughed at the idea of clear bases!
@warzan I too have been considering clear bases for myminiatures but for specific applications only. For general table top battles where there is bound to be a mix of terrain types I still prefer a decorated base, using rubble, rock, and sand, painted with neutral natural colours and muted accent colours, with a black brim. This generally works on most types of scenic tables quite well. It also makes the miniature look more finished and polished.
However, there are times when I think clear bases would be awesome. Specifically, I am looking at using them for board games, where the board art is so varied and cool that a decorated base wouldn’t fit thematically, or would then be too limited by its themed base for use elsewhere, and to see the nice board or 3d card terrain below it. Also games where miniatures would be in very different environments from battle to battle, like indoor vs outdoor vs tech vs nature vs space. A great example of such a mini would be the Robitech Tactics minis, which fight in pretty much every type of environment, and which prompted me to consider clear bases.
I’m not too fussed about seeing refraction around the miniature since it is minimal for most viewing angles above 45 degrees from the horizontal plane. But the thinner acrylic seems to be nicer. I think a decent coat of matt varnish might help, as it would reduce the amount of light refraction through the base due to the random bending of light by the nature of the matt varnish microscopic rough surface. I still need to experiment with that. Also need a good bonding solution to avoid the typical issues with fogging up clear parts when using super glue… Though I do have some ideas around that as well.
Just need to get a bunch of acrylic bases to test my ideas.
Warren mentions using something called “windelling” to thin his paint for spraying. What product is he talking about? Is this a British thing? Thanks!
It’s a product called windolene, it is a window cleaning liquid.
@dakotamike Windolene sounds suspiciously similar to Windex. I’ve heard many people use Windex as a thinning solution for airbrush paint, but your mileage may vary based on what it’s made with. If it has ammonia in it, avoid it for thinning paints, especially if shooting it through a brass airbrush as the ammonia will end up causing problems with the airbrush, and just not nice to breathe in. If it’s alcohol based, it’s not as bad, but still not pleasant when in vapour form. Always wear a respirator/mask when using an airbrush. Most of the paints we use can easily be thinned for airbrush use with water, or medium.
The reason I like Vanguard is simply because it is a fast dynamic experience. Right now it is all I have time for. I hope to be playing more involved games like Infinity. I do rather enjoy the hobby portion of playing table top games. The only plus side I can think of for having clear bases is, is you don’t have to worry about the base matching the table. On the other hand, a well done base adds so much to a mini.
Transparent Aluminum
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_oxynitride
is that the stuff scotty gave them?
Not sure if it was mentioned, but you can get all sorts of transparent bases from here: http://wargamesbuildings.co.uk/epages/950003459.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/950003459/Categories/Clear_TerraBases
the table from KoW had a crop field. Where did you buy this terrain piece? thanks for any info.
Great show guys’ @warzan have you tried using the water affect stuff in a mould at 1MM in the centre tapering to nothing for bases. I like the cheap spray gun, love the tank @lloyd , the Forgeworld site is good I think.
Cheapo airbrush is a great idea! I’d lost the rag with the dual action one I bought so many times, why does it have to be so hard to get paint just to come out the thing?! Undercoating and colour base coating is 90% of what I was using it for anyway so I’m definitely going to pick up an external mix airbrush and get some use out of the compressor I bought. Maybe at some point next year having it will finally work out less expensive than using army painter sprays or halfords primer….
😉
I know it will be difficult, but Guildball would be excellent as “battle report” material. Just different. Have Masons and Brewers if it helps;)
I agree with Warrens philosophy of “getting stuff done”. Although I do take my time I’m curious about little tricks to speed up the process and get models on the table. There are just too many projects and too little time to worry about every little detail.
Would love to come back to the studio and play some games sometime.