Weekender XLBS: Making A Gamehacker Toolkit & Learning Lessons From Campaigns
June 19, 2016 by dignity
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Happy Sunday!
Scooby Doo and Barbarossa . . . well, no one can ever say that Beasts of War doesn’t run the whole spectrum when it comes to wargaming! 😀
Aiiiee! My bad, my bad. There’s an error in that interview, where we’re talking about how long the Eastern Front lasts. At 1:38:05, I say “1,114 days.” This is what happens when I do an interview without a cup of coffee … that’s supposed to be “1,417 days.” I have no idea where I came up with that incorrect number. 🙁
Thanks to @dignity and @johnlyons for a great interview! 😀 One of these times I’ll get my numbers straight.
@oriskany Considering the sheer mass of historical content you deliver for the community you are definitely allowed, if not encouraged, to have one mistake!
I was personally starting to worry that you were some kind of robot A.I planning to take over the world by using historical data to plan a future attack!…. Although thats probably because I have been playing far too much End of the World, Rise of the Machines role plating game……
anyway, thanks for everything you do for the community!
@olly I couldn’t have said it better myself! You guys only get the benefit of @oriskany‘s historical knowledge. Do you have any idea how hard it is to have a tiff with a significant other who remembers every fact and date? I have officially had to give up my membership in the girlfriend argument winning union. It’s nice to know he does OCCASIONALLY get something wrong. Though he did correct himself so I don’t know if it counts.
There might have been 3 days with little to no action 🙂
Thanks @olly and @rasmus – although Rasmus, I was off by over 300 days, which is why I wanted to make sure I put in the correction! 😀 The Eastern Front (or Great Patriotic War as the former Soviet Union called it) last just short of four years, from June 22, 1941 to May 9, 1945.
I blame lack of sleep and all that – for having noticed that. …
Looking forward to this campaign.
By the way, have you seen this YouTuber (Military History Visualised) with his take on Barbarosa? He makes vids with illustrations, rather than the usual face-to-the-camera stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ft-dYaZKxwU
He makes some interesting vids, mostly WW2 but some other subjects. Can’t wait
Great video, @applemak – the guy makes a lot of great points. 😀
I pretty much agree with his basic premise, that people largely say that Germany never stood a chance in the Soviet Union and that Hitler essentially threw the way away when he gave the Barbarossa order. Okay, this is kind of what did happen, but it didn’t have to go that way. And it’s a mistake to oversimplify the situation and say Germany never stood a chance.
Like I say in the interview, I honesty think Germany could have forced the Soviets to sue for peace (technically, they DID force the Soviets to sue for peace, so there’s not really room for debate there).
Once the Germans “win” in Russia, even if only temporarily, the European war’s pretty much over for the US and the UK.
Lastly, when people ask whether or not Germany should have gone into the Soviet Union, it’s important to remember that the Third Reich really didn’t have a choice from an ideological perspective. As far back as the 1920s Hitler had made it very clear, in writing, that his central goal was the creation of a Germanic Empire, with huge swaths of agricultural and industrial “lebensraum” (living space) out in the East.
The Polish invasion was to get Poland “out of the way” so Germany could get to their ultimate objective. The Scandinavian invasions were to secure the iron and prevent Britain and France from shutting it off, so Germany could get to their ultimate objective. The Western Blitzkrieg was to settle debts from World War I and keep France and England off Germany’s back … while they went after the ultimate objective. The Balkan Campaign was to secure the south flank against the British, secure the oil, and preserve the political alliances required for Germany to go after … the ultimate objective.
The conquest of large parts of Russia was part of the ultimate objective of the Third Reich. From Poland to Crete, everything else can be seen as the Germans setting up the chessboard.
To ask if Nazi Germany “should” have gone into Russia is like asking whether Warren, after founding Beasts of War, “should” have started talking about wargaming. 🙂 It’s the whole point of the exercise! 😀
I can just imagine many crossover possibilities with Scooby and the gang trying to solve the mystery of the bombing at the Wolf Lair..Fred always did have a Hitler Youth look about him
A dark joke springs to mind, @torros . I apologize in advance.
But doesn’t a decidedly evil snicker come to mind when you picture von Stauffenberg at the end: “And I would have gotten away with it too if it wasn’t for those meddling kids!”
I mean, come on, man. He even has the “cartoon villain” eye patch!
Okay, enough of that. Back to being a human being again. 😀
@oriskany That’s exactly the image I had in my head
Hmm… I have the Forges of Mars mat featured on the front stage show and now I am wondering how the Mantic Industrial Sector would look on it…. Hmm….
@warzan I’d love to get a copy of the Scooby Doo game, my niece would love it. She’s coming over with family for a couple of months and this would be a great way to introduce table top games to her.
Happy Sunday!
Happy Fathering Sunday!!
Not sure they’ll manage to lock up points as IPR; consider all the 3rd party army list tools that people use to select a GW army that previously have had to stay clear of detailing too much about the rules to force you into buying the codex/army book. With the war-scrolls out there tis will be back to front.
I think they have to create more value in any book than purely list the points; they’ll sell more of their core products that way.
Consider the Corvus Belli Infinity policy; Rues – free; officil army list tool – free; revenue stream – selling minis.
I suggested about 8 years ago that GW should build their own online army list tool – and buld in a wish list feature. i.e. allow you to add units (heck why not add whole army ‘packs’) and then have a “Click here to buy what you’re missing” feature. They’re creating value to the gamer that then encourages them to spend more on the main revenue products.
Excellent talk with Oriskany.
To me taking Moscow presents one major outcome. You take out most of the Centralised Soviet Command Structure including Stalin himself.
We also start to see the amazing NKVD/KGB at work with spies deep within the Japanese Command structure allowing Stalin to move those troops to Moscow.
Thanks, @elessar2590 . I can’t remember the spy’s name in Tokyo that was instrumental in this confirmation of Imperial Japan’s intentions in November, 1941 (resisting the urge to click on Wikipedia … 🙂 ). Sorksy? Something like that?
Granted, what I said in the interview was a slight oversimplification, Stalin had in fact been redeploying divisions out of Siberia and Mongolia since early October. We have the 32nd Red Banner Division at the Battle of Borodino Field, for example.
But the big redeployment wasn’t able to start until Stalin was assured the Japanese were going after the Americans instead of kicking in his back door. Only in mid-November could the big redeployment start, which brings 30+ divisions to the Western, Kalinin, and Bryansk Fronts at the beginning of December, JUST in time for the final showdown and counterstrike at Moscow.
Speaking from experience, the army painter dip applied to a WotC-style prepaint will bump the paint job from “Well at least it’s better that grey plastic” to “somebody who isn’t a great painter tried really hard on this” which.. to my mind, is a perfectly acceptable improvement considering how little effort you need to put in with the dip and anti-shine spray.
Ultimately if I’d purchased similar miniatures from Reaper they would still be bare metal right now; Sure, as bare metal they still have the potential to be miles better than any pre-paint but let’s be honest here, if that potential is never realised (e.g. I never get around to painting them), what difference does it make?
Completely agree!
The other year I had to get a WWX mob ready for Hammerhead in a relatively short space of time, and I’m no speed painter. I decided to give AP Dip a try, and went with the Quick Shade Strong Tone which is a dark brown.
In my humble opinion, it’s amazing stuff. It allows you to just lay down blocks of flat colour (don’t try and do any kind of shading or highlighting before using dip as it can end up looking off), then brush on a layer of dip, and let it do its magic.
It’s far thicker than a GW shade as it is like a spirit based varnish (it stinks!!), but this seems to allow it to settle into a nice flat, even coat, and creates lovely shade in all the places you expect it to.
It does dull the overall paint job down a bit, so you just learn to use base colours a shade lighter than you think you need. It’s really worth a try if you haven’t done it before, and the Strong Tone seems to go well with lots of stuff.
Happy Sunday! and to those Dads out there, Happy Father’s Day!
@warzan, it would be great to have a BoW home-brew ScoobyDoo for Salute 2019.. 50th Anniversary of the Mystery Machine gang.
Happy Sunday Folks.
@warzan and the BoW community for all your game bits (building your own games) http://www.spielematerial.de/en/
I found the above site ages ago from a link and its full of bits.
@warzan Here is a link to the ultra-pro site for deck sleeves http://www.ultrapro.com/division.php?d=g
These are the ones I use to buy for when I played the B5 and WWE CCGs (went into my local Forbidden Planet)
On using dip on prepaints: might depend on the quality of the paintjob as unless I’m mistaken, some prepaints can have trouble ‘staying within the lines’ so you might have to neaten them up first.
On Shade vs Dip: instead of @dignity sacrificing a mini, why don’t you guys buy a bunch of boosters for a prepaint game? You’re bound to get loads of duplicates so can use the two methods on multiples of the same mini each which should give you a better idea of the effect/eliminate the chance of a fluke, and you’d also have a variety of sculpts/paint jobs so you can judge if that has an impact on which you prefer/think is better.
On the Heroquest vid: I think the word you’re looking for Ben is ‘bombastic’ 😉
On the AoS campaign: will it actually have an impact, or will it be another SoC where they fudge the results to try and get the one they want?
On AoS points: I agree with @warzan, it makes sense for them to keep points free. It also means that part of the compendium won’t become out of date/redundant when a points change occurs and inserting points onto the free scrolls means they can do a points adjustment for balance easier and on a mini-by-mini basis rather than having to wait for a new book to be published. It also means that people won’t have to buy the latest book to keep up with points changes, just check the free download scrolls or the app from time to time to see if a change has been made.
On campaigns: to try and avoid results spam, could you have something where a report has to be confirmed by the opponent, eg Player A reports to the system that they played Player B and inputs the result and their fluff report. Player B then gets a notification asking them to confirm the game took place and then gets to add their own fluff report. It’s not perfect but it might cut the spam a bit as some people won’t want to bother going through the hassle of creating two accounts and having to switch between them. Also don’t know how the AI historian works, so you might already have this in place, but how about having it check to see how often a player is playing another and beating them, eg if Player A is regularly playing Player B and massacring them, then there’s probbly something up. As for the AI Historian changing the result of who wins, you could spin it as having been propaganda by that faction trying to claim they were doing better than they actually were.
On WD and releases: I think they’ll keep releases weekly and just list all that month’s releases in WD with what date they’re released on. Iirc that’s how it was done before – WD listed that months releases and things were released throughout the month rather than all at once.
On Scooby Doo 2: @warzan have you considered getting in touch with Hanna-Barbara or whoever it is that owns Scooby Doo these days to licence it and run a Kickstarter to get it out there. You could even draft your daughter’s class as playtesters 😉
On traps: how about instead of trying to squeeze icons onto the bottom of the item cards, you instead have special themed trap cards which need to have specific items, but if you do you get a bonus?
On Justin’s idea of guessing who the monster is: maybe borrow some ideas from Cluedo and have cards that hint at who the monster (or monsters) could be and have the kids try and guess which one it is from the clues. Iirc one thing that happened in the cartoon is that sometimes they’d think it was Mr Haversham the lighthouse keeper bu when they unmasked the monster it’d turn out to be Mr Daversham the hotel owner or whatever. Of course that’d have to wait until your kids are older as it might be too much for them at the moment.
@lordofuzkulak – GW don’t have much of an incentive to fix the results as far as I can see, because none of the newly established setting ‘matters’. It’s not like you’re fighting over Altdorf and there’s a possibility of wiping out the capital city of one of the main factions. In AoS, it appears to me, everyone is fighting everyone for no apparent reason and if ‘Death Fort’ gets wiped out and ‘Blood Lake’ gets drained, nothing really changes. They just set the next campaign in ‘Skull Mountains’ and carry on as before.
This is really my main problem with the new setting: it doesn’t seem to have a sense of place, culture or history. Nothing seems to matter and there’s nothing to fight for. It’s just people fighting all the time.
Happy Sunday Guys 🙂
happy sunday. Warren I do almost exacly same set, but I use 200/230 mg paper not printer papert because it is thick enough so you can not see trough it. like you can on your cards ( you see what you will get from draw deck) I am using guillotine to cut out cards etc its less than 5 pounds and save ton of time. I also sometimes use old cards to add strenght and printing tuff on sticker paper if I know that it will be soemthing permanent like wolsung my own heroes or Wasteman haracters. and save it in card sleve.
first off , oriskany you are a credit to the community sir .
Warren
don’t listen to those people who are all about the negative , It must suck to go though life only seeing the negative in everything . look we can all fall into that mind set from time to time and it only needed some of the experienced respected members of the infinity community to step in and set the tone. which the infinity community does really well at ITS. in hindsight you may get mayacast , magno ect even more involved especially pre launch to create a larger positive wave supported from many angles. i think everyone in flame strike listens to mayacast. if these guys feel its there baby also, they will subconsciously have more drive to make it a success .the negative voices will be reluctant to behave badly and will adopt the culture of constructive criticism .
hope to see annual infinity campaigns In the future
I forgot to say … HAPPY FATHER’S DAY to all the gaming Dads out there! 😀
block paint colours on miniature and dip army painter best way to get a painted army on the board. works great for the saga figs I am painting
Sorry chaps with the exception of the Oriskany conversation I have to admit to skipping. Cant do it every time mates have to have room for all its just I was not the part of the all this xlbs, I am sure there have been and will be others where I am keen and a lot aren’t it is what makes our hobby great.
Good hunting!
Chris G
Happy Sunday!
I hope @oriskany won’t hate me… Though the Barbarossa campaign, historically, is amazing to read and learn about, I’m glad he is writing an article series about it as I probably will never “play” it myself. It is way to big and intense. I have loved seeing the maps as he plays his way through the different battles. No, I am more the Scooby Doo game girl. I hope @warzan plays game designer and prints his rules for the community.
Where did he say he bought blank playing cards?
@warzan I suggest checking out the Privateer Press card game Infernal Contraption for ideas on your Scooby Doo traps. The contraptions are built out of cards and you need different categories of cards in combination to build your contraptions. They also use symbols on the borders of the cards to show what types of items can be connected.
Applying the idea for a Scooby trap you might need an immobilizer card (glue, a large crate, a net, etc) to actually hold the monster. Then you can add a trigger card (a trip wire, a trampoline, a large fan, etc) which causes the monster to fall into the trap. You might add a bait card (a mirror showing a reflection of one of the Scooby gang, a plate of cookies, a scarecrow made to look like shaggy, etc) to lure the monster into position. Basically your immobilize card is the trap and you can boost its effectiveness by adding a trigger and or bait card. So you play a glue card as your trap and then maybe add a large fan to blow the monster into the glue. Maybe you add a plate of cookies card to get the monster to stop in front of the fan. With a few cards of each type you have a nearly infinite variety of traps the kids can come up with.
That’s pretty much the direction I think we’re headed 🙂
@oriskany !!! 🙂 I am waiting for the new article series 🙂
happy Sunday n fathers day folks great work on the Scooby doo game @warzan the show was great the Barbarossa article will be great @oriskany
Thanks very much, @zorg and @yavasa! First part comes out tomorrow, hopefully people will like it. 😀
@oriskany don’t worry sure we will 😉
I think I watched to many BoW videos these days. Last night Ben was in my dream XD
I think I watched to many BoW videos these days. Last night @brennon was in my dream XD
What might work for the next campaign when you do stats reports, is frame them like news reports. You would be anchors reporting the happenings of this war.
Warren, you should just do the stats videos as a voiceover with your usual animations and art assets. You’re pretty good at making good looking videos that use art from the games, just do the same thing for your stats reports.