Base Changes & Smaug Coming Soon For Games Workshop!
November 29, 2014 by brennon
Games Workshop may have taken another step to annoy those who still play their games with an update to the base sizes to the game if the latest cover of next week's White Dwarf is to be believed. Oh, and that Smaug model we talked about...it's coming too.
The new base size seems to be hitting with the coming of the Blood Angels and means that power armored miniatures are going to be sitting on larger bases and potentially invalidating a whole chunk of some peoples collections. A bit of a mean move when you think about it.
While apparently the rule of thumb is that a model MUST be based on the base it comes with meaning that past Space Marines are still ok this could shake up how tournaments are run in the future. There are going to be advantages and disadvantages to both sides of this basing coin.
What I'm both excited and indeed terrified about however is that Smaug is on the way from Games Workshop and I've heard the number $500 bandied around on forums and Facebook groups of late. Whether or not there is any truth to that price tag, we shall have to wait and see.
What do you think about the changes to the base size for Space Marines?
Let us know!
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As long as it doesn’t require existing minis to be re-based to make them tournament legal then I don’t see a big issue with it. It might lead to some uneven looking armies if there’s a mix of the two base sizes but that’s about it.
Of course, it will invalidate all those third-party bases, which is probably the point.
Thanks Ben
I was about to ask what is the reason for a change in base size.
It’s very definitely the point, since the new size they’ve chosen is 32mm. They couldn’t go for 30mm because third parties do bases in that size, too. They had to pick a unique size that nobody else produces (yet).
Might it be because they just didn’t think 30mm gives them as much freedom as the new size, in terms of modeling?
(Confusing as their BUILDINGS are designed for smaller bases… this is gonna cause their own unique models some problems).
Not at all. You have to buy the new buildings.
Ben tell me if I am being dumb but in 6 months time every indy in the planet will be selling the new size bases and gw will be like “oh we didn’t think of that.”
They will, but most of these suppliers are very small-time operations and making them switch to catch up will be a significant hassle for them. To move an entire range into a new size at once is a big investment.
It will obviously hurt companies with custom made terrain bases. I hadn’t realised actually that it is intended to damage mantic games because you can no longer use your mantic army as mantic/and.or GW. The thing is mantic are pretty smart about this type of stuff and will probably come up with a solution that will make GW look silly. I don’t mean to dismiss GW strategy completely but I feel their attempts to thwart smaller companies is similar to a record company trying to stop people from downloading music – it probably won’t work very much.
No different to when they made the bases bigger for terminators, no-one batted an eye back then, I just glued the smaller base to the new size and had the bonus of making my old metal terminators a similar height to the new ones.
That was a smaller adjustment to make. Most people have between 5 and 20 terminators you don’t have to adjust hundreds of them You will also have to change your miniature carry cases potentially.
Let me think on how to phrase my sentiments to the re-basing things for a moment.
Sorry, my 5 year old is around, so no can do.
I like the End Times for Fantasy, though. Does that count?
no
Well their miniatures have been creeping up in scale all along so it was inevitable they would have to start increasing base sizes. I can’t believe they still use 20mm for fantasy. I don’t think I have ANY fantasy regiments from the last few years that fit together on 20mm bases all ranked up.
But its 40k that gets new bases, and there is 100% no need to rank up.
They are increasing the pressure on their customers to buy their collections again.
A shitty and unnessecary move. Boooo !
Great move. It’s one way of ensuring the ever growing army of ex players will never return to the game.
Myself among them. Will they ever do anything to foster good will? Doubtful.
But on the bright side, companies with stockpiles of 30mm bases will now sell them for much less. Woo hoo!
Wonder how long before someone brings out a base you can just click your existing based model into.
I really hope that those don’t invalidate models on smaller bases but then again we are talking about GW. They don’t really care what we want.
How would it?
There never have been any rules for bases in the rulebooks and GW have sworn off all tournament play.
Of course there are quite a lot of tournament organizers who like to add their own rules, but that is the fault of the organizer not GW
@spacefrog has a point. This would have precisely zero effect on all non-tournament games, and even in a tournament setting it only becomes a problem if the tournament organisers have their own rules about basing and over ethusiastically apply them, and GW cannot be blamed for the excessive zeal of people who aren’t affiliated to the company.
This just doesn’t strike me as being all that big of a deal.
is it???
So GW build the largest dragon ever costing $500 ( who knows what in Aussies dollars) and they put a tactical squad on the cover – pure genius.
It seems like an insight into how they view their products. This is year has seen a very definite shift towards IPs they 100% control.
“Hey you OK with my marines being on the old size based?”
“Yeah sure, mine are as well”
Problem solved.
I have a feeling smug is going to be resin. They mentioned it’s for experienced modellers.
Most companies for experienced modelers would mean a complicated build with pinning required, and a lot of steps.
GW’s recent use of experienced modelers seems to mean must have the skills to clean up, unwarp and fill bubbles, and patch in large gaps in a product that should never made it past the QA department. I hope I am wrong.
If indeed Smaug is released by games workshop and not Forge World it will without doubt be the biggest FINECRAP ever!
j/k
I recall by in the 90s, ‘for experienced modellers’ is reserved for that metal 2 head chaos dragon from fantasy. I can only guess todays meaning would be ‘no refunds nor exchanges for that tiny air bubble becuase the model was intended for experience moddelers only.
As a Tolkien fan for over 40 years, I despair at the pricing. £118 for 14 28mm minis? But hey it gets worse! Rank and file troops now £5 per head… when the rest of the gaming world goes for quality AND affordability, GW seem to think the hard core fans will always pay out, no matter what. IMHO this is unrealistic. You have to look at what else someone can get with that amount of cash. They may like the films, but could decide Kings of War or something else is a far more affordable mass battle system.
As for Smaug, if it is a huge lump of resin I would have to think very, very seriously about it. A plastic kit of the same price and quality would appeal more to me.
They will always pay the price, regardless. As someone pointed out recently, they’re paying for the fluff that comes with the model… over and over again. Hard to fathom that kind of blind loyalty.
I think WWX is on 32 mm bases so they arent the first
Not only are your minis not tournament legal for WWX if they’re not on the right base size, they have to be the ones Outlaw Miniatures sell. If you use bases from another company, even if they’re the right size, you can’t use the mini in a tournament. Given this is the precedent I don’t think it undermines the suggestion that this is a commercial move on GW’s part rather than a modelling one.
Not true. From the WWX tournament rules document:
“Any non-official Wild West Exodus base must be equivalent in size to the official bases.”
Source: http://www.outlawminiatures.com/WWX_Gunslinger_Tournament_Aug_2014.pdf
They said this at the start of the year –
“WWX bases are the only bases allowed in WWX tournaments. Once your models are mounted on other bases they no longer can be used in our events. A travel board for WWX models will be released at some point in the near future. We are not every other miniature company so we do not use every other base type. We have our own bases because we are Wild West Exodus. A new game doing things with fresh and exciting ideas.”
Even if they didn’t go through with it, it’s very clear what their thinking was in making their own bases in a size that third-party companies don’t do. GW are doing the same thing. They can’t stop third-party companies switching to 32mm bases, but they can make it a hassle to have to do it.
If they think I’m going to be rebasing an entire battle company they know where they can put that idea! 🙂
I don’t see why the base changes didn’t coincide with the latest Edition change. Why do it only 6 months after a new edition when the base changes could have been incorporated into the rules?
My space marines fit on their current bases perfectly fine and I wont be changing them.
Also it seems the new Blood Angels codex is out before Christmas. My local GW store manager was sure they wouldn’t release that this year. I’ve no need for more tactical marines but it looks like my squads can take heavy flamers.
As far as I know there are no rules for basing in the rulebook (or at least, there wasn’t in 3rd-6th editions) so what would they need to include?
I guess my point is that I think it would be “neater” for the base size change to coincide with the new edition. I also forgot 40k doesn’t mention base size much in the rules. A lot of wargames these days have it as an integral part of the mechanics (e.g. Warmahordes) and I was thinking in that mindset.
Tacticals wouldnt be my force choice for new BA, but with some jetpacks I think the parts are a great base for 10 man assault squads, so I’ll probably be making my first GW purchases of the year. Codex, tac squad and priest.
Still hoping for a new Mephiston as the weeks go on though.
Finally, a £300 smaug better be big enough to fill my garage.
guess this IS the right time to wax lyrical about bases…
Time for a Darrell return to BoW
He was all about that base
about that base? no trouble.
Wow
I didn’t realise it was taboo to talk about Darrell.
Did he do something horrid? I thought he was a good egg and a lot of fun tbh
Except for that nappy.
Man! I still have nightmares!
Is it going to be bigger than the emperor dragon that you had to make the wings for yourself?
Jokes Workshop at it again
Thats odd I thought they were called Games Porkchop.
Porkys Gameshop actually, but dont let that fool you … theres more than one pig running the show 😛
Zing 😉
So how difficult is it to make a black 1mm thick band in a circle 30mm across (allowing for bevel – something similar to this?
http://www.firebucketgames.com/25mm-t-30mm-Resin-Miniature-Base-Adapter-Converter-p/fbg1301.htm
Neat idea but don’t think it would be tournament legal and if you have a large army and don’t play tournaments not sure why would one would bother for GW?
Does the rulebook say anything about bases?
If not you should be blaming the tournament organizers not GW if it is deemed illegal in a tournament.
It does –
“The rules in this book assume that models are mounted on the base they are
supplied with.”
It “assumes”, it doesn’t insist.
I never said it did, @erastus. The question asked was does the rulebook say anything about bases. It does and I quoted from it without any editorial comment. Had the question said “does the rulebook insist that the bases that come with the minis must be used?”, I’d have said no, only that the rules have been written on the assumption they will be used. This gives both complete freedom to people to do what they want, whilst signposting to anyone wanting to play competitively that if they change the bases the rules might not work as intended. Consequently most tournaments insist on this.
I never said you did say it did @redben 😉
My point still stands though 🙂
Any ban from tournaments because of base sizes will be the fault of the organizer, not GW
“Fault” is a bad choice of words. There’s too much scope for abuse if a tournament doesn’t enforce bases sizes. I’m aware of one example in which it wasn’t enforced and the winner took advantage of it to put his monstrous cavalry and infantry on smaller bases to maximise their attacks. People don’t have to play competitively, but those that do, and there are many, need this enforced if it’s to work.
If I was a company that makes bases I would be happy 🙂 The reason why you might ask. Because I would make plastic rings that fit over or under the models base to make the smaller bases to size and they don’t need to rebase them at all. It be a cunning act that would make GW regret their action.
Do they have “the biggest dragon we have ever made!!” Coming out, and they put a box of red space marines with a few extra goodies on the cover instead???
That just doesn’t make sense to me. You would figure if they put the effort into producing something that large and expensive they would try to give it as much exposure as possible to show it off. They make do little sense to me…
GW is just sad
i don’t get the bases thing…
Personally I am or the idea
I already have all my assault marines on 30 or 40mm bases since they are so top heavy that they had a tendency to topple if based on the supplied base
It generally gives them an additional size to work with for more larger models or more dynamic poses
There are pros to it certainly.
For me i am a bit ocd when it comes to the visual of things… i am wondering if i will be able to just put a 25mm base on to a 32mm base or whatever it is and texture paint up to cover the fact its a base on a base.
For jump pack and ‘bulky’ models it really makes sense. For carry cases, movement trays, and people with older models on scenic bases its a bit harsh. All of my Forgeworld Sons of Horus for example are on the old bases so its unlikely i would want to change them.
Hmm… On the one hand, I think larger bases look better, all things considered. As miniatures have got larger over the years, more room on the base makes them look less top heavy. I already mount all character models and virtually all 2 Wound models on 40mm terminator style bases.
But I don’t believe this is why GW has decided to switch for a second. And I certainly won’t be doing _any_ rebasing to suit GW’s interests. I’m already moving away from using their rules to play 40K with, so they can go somewhere else if they think this will get more custom out of me.
If anything, this will provide a boost to 3rd party manufacturers as I have to buy non-GW replacement bases for any models I buy from them in future!
To be fair their rulebooks always state about using the bases that the model came with or if it didn’t come with one compare to similar models… I think the only potential concern is tournament type play.
Started a couple of posts in reply then remembered that I don’t buy or play current GW stuff so why should I care lol 🙂
I understand why folks who still play GW might be annoyed. But, they have been using the same base sizes for 30 years now. When I started playing WHFB and RT back in the 80’s, the miniatures fit onto the bases but with scale creep, they no longer do. This was needed 15+ years ago.
Looking at the big front page ad for Battlefoam on BoW got me thinking how terrified the owner must be now that a lot of the current models will come with a larger base and won’t fit the tailored size they advertised.
Might also dusuade a lot of potential buyers during their black friday sales too.
mission success as far as Porkys concerned
Seriously, a big picture of a brand new blood angel set leaked and all people can talk about are the bases? The first dreadnaught i bought had no base, I still have tyranid warriors on square bases, I’m pretty sure i have some figures on hexagonal bases kicking about.
Pretty sure the base size has changed because the figures didn’t fit on the base they came with before. It makes zero difference in game and is perfectly fine at GW events. If you go to events run by retentive nut bags then that’s your problem.
That and who gives a real shit about Blood Angels when there is a big frack off model of the world’s most famous dragon and WD doesn’t put it on the cover.
Blood Angels = canned meat 😛
Well 40k is big seller for GW so it’s natural that they want to have 40k product in cover instead of product from line that they don’t really care about. I agree that Smaug would had been much better to have in cover but I get it why it’s not.
I remember baseless metal dreads! Byorn the fell-over!
Can’t wait to see Smaug better be bloody good at 500$, 200$, less than the Weta Smaug I bet it won’t be as good but. And they can (stick) there bases to there figures.
If it’s a mandatory base size change across all infantry, that will have huge ramifications in terms of good will towards GW, as most people will simply not want to convert their existing armies. I know I wont, though new models I would base with what they come with. However, GW seems to know this, and I think will stick to the wording of “Modelled with the base it comes with” to remain legal for games.
I think the real issue will arise with competitive play. The base size change will have direct ramifications to game play, affecting deployment, coherency footprint, template and blast effectiveness, reduction of supporting atttacks in assault, influence on range/wound allocation, etc. There are pros and cons to either base size, and depending on the army type you play, or your play style, the base size may actually be a factor. People may call foul and accuse people of modelling for advantage if they stick to the smaller base size, so Tournament Organizers might end up putting their foot down in terms of making it mandatory to upgrade.
Additionally, this can affect the aftermarket for basing supplies as well as protective foam. The new base is just over 1.25″ inches, which would not fit in standard 1″ depth trays GW sells, as well as commonly available aftermarket. It also would possibly be too tight to fit in the smaller infantry tray slots, thus causing people to either stick to their old bases, or buy new trays if they upgrade. I also expect that we’ll see a scramble by aftermarket base suppliers to make new bases to suit, as well as make adapter rings to fit your 25mm bases on, for simple conversion.
I can’t see the GW secret police turning up and forcing you to re-base your army at gunpoint, I could be wrong but I really don’t see it happening.
People are really blowing this out of proportion, if anyone raises an issue about your miniatures being on the wrong base size, are they really the sort of people you’d choose to spend your time with?
As for Smaug, at that price I don’t care how nice it is, its out of my price range.
“I can’t see the GW secret police turning up and forcing you to re-base your army ”
Nobody expects the Basest Inquisition
I agree about Smaug.
No matter how good a sculpt, I wouldn’t be able to justify the asking price as estimated, and if they are charging £118 for Thorin’s Company then it sure as hell ain’t gonna be cheap lol
Bare with me a moment guys. I’ve been playing Warhammer since ’85. I worked for GW as an outrider in the 90’s and have been an huge supporter of the hobby and GW but I have to say that the broken rules and now way over priced figs and books have pushed many long time players out the door. With other systems out there that have figs that are great and lower cost I think GW is just shooting themselves in the foot, I live just outside of Ft.Hood TX The largest military post in the world that is filled with gamer’s like us but if asked why they don’t play 40K it’s always the same. Takes too long and cost too much. I hope GW will get the message the the US market if going to vote with their feet and walk away from GW.
just when you were sure GW had no more feet left to shoot into themselves…
I stand corrected 🙂
At least there are some cheep options if you want a larger base size, but don’t want to rebase or damage anything ripping models off the current base. Morland Studios makes a hollow base that you can just drop existing based miniatures into and then just base the extra area.
Fun fact, anyone who wants me to recast my midels is ***king insane.
It’s seriously not a big deal. Use the big bases on the models that come with them
Or you know what? Use whatever base you bloody want and if anyoneakes an issue of it, well then don’t play those a-holes
Good ting I stopped caring about such things years ago…
I assume the next logical step for GW is to increase the space marines themselves .
I assume the next logical step for GW is to increase the price of space marines themselves .
fixed your post 🙂
Don’t care, stopped playing years ago, just another reason not to return.
…CON!
I don’t think the “if your opponent doesn’t like it… just play someone else” argument really holds up in practice for everyone. I find there is a limited pool of potential opponents I can play 40k against. If I start ruling some out because we disagree on one rule interpretation or another, the pool only shrinks and it becomes harder and harder to get games.
I don’t see the fuss.
I’ve had my Necron Wraiths on 60mm, rather than their “official” 40mm bases for ages. Simply looks cooler and they don’t fall over so easily.
Never had an issue with it. Many people even commented that it is a cool idea.
And Tournaments are for the TO to regulate, why does GW have to administer that. Just put it into the tournament brief that you can use any bases you like, as long as it looks cool. Done.
I’d rather face a well-based army on “wrong” bases than a tide of grey on “correct” bases.
Not to mention that if, indeed, many people decide to re-base parts or all of their army, 3rd party base makers can sell loads of 32mm bases for all those thousands of miniatures out there that already had 25mm bases (and thus wouldn’t have bought new 25mm bases).
I don’t see how any 3rd party base maker would sell even one base less because of this change? Quite the opposite, seems like a huge potential windfall opportunity for 3rd party base-makers.
It’s not about how many they sell. It’s about them having to make a new line of bases to keep up. Most third-party manufacturers are small operations and it’ll take a real investment of time and money to convert their existing lines into 32mm.
Why would that be more effort than bringing out a new line of bases, design-wise, which all of them constantly do?
If you can make a new resin mould for … dunno … new graveyard bases or mystical forest bases or whatever, you can make a new resin mould, that is a few mm wider.
If that is too much work, than the problem isn’t GW.
Again, these are small companies who will have to release a new base size for all their bases. They’ll do it, but it’ll take a little time and investment.
aaah how i love watching this nerd rage over gw products. even if gw decided to give 2 million newly designed space marines away, people would still be screaming about their old collection being outdated, making/painting gw takes to long and how this will affect competitive play (seriously how many of you are playing gw sponsored tournaments)
When GW start giving stuff away we will be screaming because it will signify the End of Days, St Michael will trump and the Four Horsemen shall ride forth
I actually still remember time when you could get free metal model with issue of WD.
As things stand now, I wouldn’t hold my breathe waiting for freebies
nah it was more meant as a point towards those that scream gw have high prices, which they do on some models.
Never heard any screaming about GW prices.
Jaws hitting the floor, followed by an incredulous, “How much!?” I have heard a plenty
I have more fun now laughing at GW than I ever did playing their games.
Still plan on building some sci-fi combat teams, and I like some of the GW ranges, so I hope prices don’t get too outrageous before I buy them. But there’s lots of better cheaper figures out there, if you’re willing to spend the time looking. I find I’m being pushed further that way with every price increase, and every bad model that rolls off the assembly line.
I can buy the bitz for an entire combat team (company size element, square configuration, with two platoons of infantry and two platoons of tanks) and atts and dets, for far less. And that’s without diving into the dollar store stuff, which can easily be modified with bitz weapons and plasticard.
Yeah, and coupons 🙂
Free anxiety attack with every purchase :-).
And I think it won’t be long till a 32mm hollow round square base with vertical sides comes along, if they haven’t gone that route already with these new models. That way people can just set their old bases ‘inside’ the new ones, and fill the little gap between the new rim and the edge of the old base with putty, flock, whatever. Of course if GW comes out with them they won’t be cheap, but other astute companies are probably on top of this, and if it’s a plain base it probably won’t cast more than .15 to .20 cents a unit if you’re buying a bag of 20. Easy fix, but don’t get me wrong. I still don’t agree with it.
Its not nerdrage, those are rarely in proportion to reality … this is just having fun at an arrogant company shooting itself in the slotta base one too many times.
Sure looks like 2 pages of nerd rage to me. This whole thread has been hilarious. Meanwhile I’ll continue to base my minis on whatever size of base I want to, just like I always have.
take pictures?
Of what?
A lot of nerd but really not a great deal of rage.
Unless you consider, “I’m not going to re-base my minis” to be on a par with table flipping.
A lot of the discussion has been about the how and who is going to make 32mm bases, aesthetics and practicalities of SMs on the current bases that are too small and what will happen at tournaments.
Well that has been my overriding impression of the thread.
true. I guess we can call it more along the lines of nerd whinage.
but as for the basing. I’m starting to like the idea, since now there’s actually room to do some decent base decorating without having to elevate the SM for extra room
The slightly change in the bases … the current bases are simply too small for your average Marine model. There are also balancing issues with other models. I don’t want to defend GW but this seems to be a logical step – depending on the size. If the bases are *so big* that they will not fit in their own terrain (Such as their sold fortifications) then it’s a bit of a case of shooting themselves in the foot).
Only 40k models that I have had problems with are certain BA special characters that are posed to be in air with those scrolls and have wings and those require that base with slot because of how those were designed. Then again mine are metal once that i bought when current Codex (that within 2 weeks is going to be previous Codex) was released so those have that weight issue.
Anyone else noticed, those Blood Angels are really nice and the new Broodlord in their other new set is glorious.
There’s new Blood Angels?
😛
If that Smaug model has a 500$/400€ price tag I expect it dwarf and quality wise surpass the Cool mini or not massive dragon, that one only had a round 300$ price tag.
But as this will never happen they can shove that dragon somewhere where the sun don’t shine, and it’s not Erebor!!!
I will say first off I no longer play GW games as I feel the quality of the game has dropped and the price has gone up unreasonablely.
That said this base change does not strike me as 100% evil move nor a 100% innocent. Models will fit better on the new ones so this is a needed and good change. But I am sure it is in part a way to undermine all the companies out their that make not only alternative bases but also model parts. As they will have to make a choice to sink cash into the new size that will only be for one game system rather than multiple.
The change will not screw players as the text on bases in the rule book are quite liberal.
That may change, and only if it does people should have a rage over it.
Infinity also had a base change recently but it only affected about 3-5% of the range and the person I know who had to re-base the most had to do 7 minis.
GW has possibly changed all infantry and that is a f**k ton of the range.