Weekender XLBS: Are You Wiz-Ard Enough?
November 8, 2015 by warzan
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First again?
Warren has the maturity of an 8 year old sometimes.
I have trouble keeping up with a 5 year old to be honest 😉
There is a Germany saying, that translate somewhat like this: “Men only turn 7 years old. After that they only keep growing.”
Happy sunday, may tentacles of sunshine create shadows of apocalypse in this eldritch world!!
Phew – finally the xlbs show is online.
Fell out of Bed at about 5.30 am and didn’t know what to do since then.
Cheers guys!
Happy Sunday!!
As far as models on the table goes, I don’t care if people use proxies or pennies, just as long as they are playing and having fun doing so. I used to work for a couple of independent game shops (the last of which is closing their doors this month), and I always encouraged people to use our tables for miniature games and I made sure that we would never kick them off a table for not having the right models, based with three colors (ala GW stores). Yes, building and painting are parts of the hobby and two aspects I enjoy most. I’ve spent more time building and painting then I have playing.
But that doesn’t mean that what I do in the hobby should ever prevent someone else having fun their way. If someone wants to play with an army made of a $10 bag of unpainted bases, just write what the figure is supposed to be on paper and tape it to the base (or penny or washer) and play a game.
For me, the hobby is about having a laugh, having a good time and at the end of the day, having some good stories to share.
While I agree absolutely, part of my enjoyment is playing against a well put together army, but not at the expense of the other players fun. But, with that said, 99% of my gaming is solo, so I almost always play against a well put together army. And I always win, of course I always lose too.
Happy sunday everyone!
Nice competion and a good extended show. Good background when working on models.
Basing some Wrath of Kings Goritsi Werewolves this weekend for use in Kings of War and beta testing new Deadzone but always have to stop to watch the XLBS!
Have a good sunday
Happy Sunday!
An hour and 8 minutes? That’s 2.65 cups at this time of day!
Islebound: Ryan’s Above and Below arrived a few weeks ago and is a great game. Also awaiting City of Iron 2nd Ed. Definitely in on this already! Love the art style and gameplay of their range.
I can relate the sheer amount of components in some games to Justin’s take on masses of unidentifiable grey minis on the table… what’s what?
When all you have are arrays of cardboard tokens of a similar shape and size but with different graphics they can be hard to ‘read’ without having to look closely.. Using meeples, different coloured & shaped cubes/gems/etc. and even the most complicated game ‘pops’ and a glance around the board shows you the state of play.
Getting in on KS board games means you often get additional, almost special edition resources etc. Some can even e re-usable across multiple games.
What was I just saying… look at those gorgeous Dreary Hamlet coins… and you can purchase additional sets! Rest of the game looks good to!
In my opinion painted minis brings more to the table. However, I wouldn’t mind playing against an unpainted army. I get very few games in each year and I’m just happy to play.
Your approach to build up the quality of an army step by step is a very good way of going about it. Your GoA plog inspired me to get my Plague faction for Deadzone built and painted. About half-way through it now. I have tried to keep it simple. Grey and white undercoat, to create shadows, a red wash over skin and then 3-5 different colors for a base coat. I think the whole project will take about 20-30 hours for a 24 miniatures warbands. And I still have the option of making them even better after that.
Seeing the GoA miniatures, they might be my next project…you always seem to get me to buy into more games all the time… 🙂
Sunday XLBS – hooray! 🙂
Great bunch of topics. Too much to talk about in one wee comment. Ienjoyed the discussion about unpainted gaming miniatures (or armies ads such). Unpainted minis don’t bother me (I am a pime offender these days), but proxies that don’t look a flipping bit like the thing they are replacing drives me mad. I have played 40k on different occasions against armies with the following proxies: a lego man for an eldar farseer, blocks of sawn timber for Rhinos, multiple fantasy figures replacing Orks (oh no, not even fantasy Orcs…), and two toilet rolls taped together for a landspeeder!
OK, all these events happened over 10 years ago but I still grit my teeth thinking about it! Calm thoughts, calm thoughts. Peace and tranquility… but seriously, bugger that for a game of soldiers! 😛
Anyway…Mages kickstarter looks good, but with some lost potential, and I don’t just mean the two blokes in the ‘we’ve run out of budget’ gameplay clip. Love the artwork, the combination of items to boost your character, and the random events. Having different polyhedral dice is nice, but are you just rolling different dice to damage the hero’s or can the dice be used for other actions? Do your companions or spells block, deflect, change the attacks or actions, apart from just adding to the overall damage total?
Also writing your hit points on a bit of paper? Really? Seems…inelegant. Of course 60 hit points is a lot to track so dice or dials probably won’t work. Just feels like this game could degenerate in to whom ever rolls the most handfuls of dice wins which would be a little disappointing. Hopefully there is more to what I can see on their site and in the comments – perhaps “two of the most glorious plonkers (Warren) has ever seen” will enlighten us all.
Skyheart = awesomeness. Thank you for highlighting this. Totally on board to pick up a hard copy of an amazing piece of visual creative fantasy. Bring on the animated movie!
Totally forgot to mention Dreary Hamlet. Same theme to Kingdom Death: Monster for certain, and oh boy it looks great! I am so glad I am living in days where the gaming industry keeps offering so many amazing options. Love the crafting, love the survival aspect, artwork looks suitably creepy. Great having Ben on the big screen to offer his thoughts on kickstarters, he is always enthusiastic and informative.
Nice discussion on painting models. We had a discussion like this at Kapiti. For me, I paint detail on sprue then assemble. I hate models not being DONE.
Amusingly I have some super looking Americans for Flames Of War but the camouflage on their bases is so effective it’s like the army vanishes when you put it on the table. It’s like angry bocccage is fighting the war. Frightened the hell out of General Macbeth when those trees sneaked up on him.
“It’s like angry bocccage is fighting the war.”
Love it! Classic. 😀
Sky heart reminds me of a cross of nausicaa and skies of Arcadia. Not a bad thing at all. Some interesting kick starters all around this week.
Very Studio Ghibli!
Some of the artwork, particuarly those creatures at the lower level, reminds me of some of the “Anyaral: The world of Twilight” range:
http://www.worldoftwilight.com/shop/
Sod the rpg, give me highly detailed SkyHeart minis. SkyHeart stole MyHeart <3
And for those wanting an all-ages fantasy comic whilst waiting for SkyHeart, may I direct you to Bone.
http://www.boneville.com/about-2/
I was going to say the exact same. Bone is an excellent graphic novel.
See Anyaral above for some of the creatures (a flickering recollection that you might know that range Redben?). I’m sure I’ve seen a decent Whale mini somewhere. Let’s build a proxy list?
Yes, I’ve got a bunch of World of Twilight minis 🙂
Glad you liked it in the show, Parker is a favourite artist of mine and I really wish for his project to succeed.
Well thanks for that chaps. That’s another couple of Kickstarters backed….
XLBS! One of these days I’ll actually get a chance to watch it Sunday morning instead of later in the week….maybe when the kids are eighteen….
i remember picking up a old eden starter a while back and getting my hands on a more recent model… the range has really improved over the time !
i am glad the game is expanding continuously
Happy Sunday, turning up to a tournament is like duelling without gloves!
It’s not becoming of a gentlemen.
Happy Sunday, turning up to a tournament with an unpainted army is like duelling without gloves!
It’s not becoming of a gentlemen.
Personally, if I am playing someone, I would like them to be fully assembled and at least primed, but we can’t have it all our own way. I have no objections playing against people who use unpainted minis or proxies. Its all about the fun and killing each other (on the board I mean… the armies… minis… not the players… I will stop digging now…)
Sat in the cafe waiting for the start of the Humber comic con, battling for a viable wifi spot for the weekender, mission status failure at present although I’ve managed to get the happy Sunday. Looks like a late viewing later post show
I do like the idea of coloured primer as a standard starting point.
It can be ok but I tried army painters, the red colour, and it was horrible. It was thick, chunky and difficult to paint over. I much prefer to apply my base colour with an air brush or simply apply a quick and dirty layer of watered down base colour.with a brush.
That’s odd. I never had any problem with coloured primers from Army Painter. Then again, I seldom use red. I’ve successfully used brown, green, blues, beige, and once a dark red…
i have to paint my miniatures before gaming with them and to me i lesson the enjoyment playin against someone using unpainted models or even dice to represent models, which has happened to me.
I wouldn’t have a problem playing against someone with unpainted minis, because I would be envious of their ability to bring them in such a state, and to not worry about getting it done in a certain time. I would probably play much more often if I could do that. 🙂
Take for instance my Zombicide game, which is by far my most played miniatures game by me and my friends. It took me 2 plays before I decided that I had to paint these things, despite not painting miniatures for 8 or 9 years. But when I paint them, they have HAVE to be perfect in my eyes. I want that mini looking beautiful NOW. And this isn’t too big a deal for the little individual survivors and their zombified counterparts, since i can just lavish them with affection. But when you have over 200 zombie miniatures to paint it’s completely paralyzing. It doesn’t matter that they are going to be thrown all over the board in huge piles, and then immediately pulled off as they get mowed down; if I pick that specific miniature up and don’t smile looking at the little details I feel like I failed somehow. I must have them perfect. Which is why I have had the game for over a year now and still only have 37 miniatures painted out of 200 some odd minis. I live in artistic OCD hell. 🙂
So yeah, as long as it doesn’t impede the game to terribly, bring your ragged army forth. You are a better(or at least less stressed) man then me.
Great show again.
Good discussion on painted minies. I guess I’m a bit spoilt being member of a gaming club where, for the games I play, everyone just automatically brings fully painted models and there’s not even discussion about it. I wouldn’t deny a game against a new player with an unpainted army, but maybe I’d agree to play next time when it gets painted. For most games I play I have at least two painted forces and I’m happy to lend my stuff until you get your own army ready.
Happy Sunday!
Another great show, my favourite of the Kickstarters was the book by a big big margin
I need at least a basecoat on my gaming minis, in fact I think the infinity bootcamp is the only time I’ve played with anything less than 3 colours since I was about 10, though I will make an exception for boardgames if they’re in coloured plastics
Thank you for the highlight on Mauser Earth, the owner of the license is a friend of mine ;). Cheers !!
Don’t be modest… Didn’t you sculpt Lord Holmes, one of the best miniatures for SMOG 1888 ?
I will happily play people with proxies, so ling as everyone knows whats what up front. I would have no problem playing someone with a demo army made out of labelled card circles so they can try a new faction before they buy, so long as they asked me before we met to play. Long term though, everyone should buy the models they plan on using. They do not need to paint, but it is a good idea, and well painted models are always appreciated by everyone.
My friends and I have been wargaming (Warmahordes) for 3+ years now. One of my friends has never painted anything. Last week he primed all his Menites bone and it has made a hell of a difference. I didn’t realise how much the reflections on white metal messed up our ability to really see the models. Now everything has shadow and definition. It is a vast improvement. This really is the bare minimum people should try for. One colour spray priming all your army takes very little time and effort. It might take multiple coats, but go do other things while its all drying.
A while back I bought an army bundle off of eBay and I wanted them to look good while I spent the next year paitning them (Almost finished them and all the many additions now). I had seen a video on youtube and it game me an idea. I primed them all black all over, and then gave them a quick squirt or two of white from above only. You get a great greyscale/ black and white effect that really gives everything defnition and this stylised look that made it really easy to see what you were looking at and I was really pleased with. Heres some pics I took at the time. I might have overdone the white a tiny bit.
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The discussion about having your army primed was interesting. I use coloured primer to speed up painting frequently. From a gaming standpoint, when you are 4 foot away from a sea of grey plastic and can’t make out individual special weapons etc then is there a difference if it a sea of yellow/blue/red plastic because of a primer?
Hello! Re: awards – is there a call for board games/ card games award given the kickstarter focus of recent weeks?
That’s a really good idea. I do think board gaming is a different hobby to miniature gaming, but there’s a bit overlap, especially as you say with all these kickstarters, many of which have amazing miniatures.
Not watched the show yet (I’m on a train heading to a Game of Thrones LCG tournament) but as far as the painting argument goes:
A) painted models look better.
B) painted models have no effect on the game (but they can affect the experience.)
C) your hobby is not my hobby – different people have different levels of immersion and skill. Personally, I find it difficult to enjoy a game if my minis are painted poorly and my opponents are amazing. Its disheartening (as if the dice rolls weren’t bad enough!) I’d rather play with unpainted minis in that case.
Basically: you should field what you’re comfortable with. If that’s fully painted models, then great. Of that’s a sea of metal, that’s also cool. Judging other people for their painting (or lack thereof) is just a dick move though.
After a break away from the hobby I have spent the last year getting my painting skills back up to at least a decent gaming standard. Given time constraints (young family etc) its been really hard getting everything together but I still consider it worth the effort as even the most basic paint job really helps draw you into a game. The point about at least having a primed army is very valid especially with armies that are primarily a single colour. I’d never moan about someone who’s army is obviously a work in progress but I do have a problem with models that are not even glued together! Back in the day watching a friend balance his empire cannons on wonky wheels was just a nightmare. If anyone so much as sneezed they all fell over.
so Warren how many Power ring do you tink would fit on a rod of fire?
I got to take a brief look through the Team Yankee rulebook at Fall-in yesterday. It looks really good, and my 13-year-old even took an interest. I needs it.
I think Warren is referring to Mamod steam engines when he talks about modelsI have a couple myself .
After yesterdays goblin cocks and today with blokes swinging their giant balls about will we now be calling the show Carry on Weekender . Oh if only Frankie Howerd was still alive to present the show he could begin each show with”Salu-tay”
I wonder if the whole unpainted thing and its been discussed since the 1980’s is that people are trying just to play too many different systems each having its own set of models?
There is the kind of “shiny” effect. It’s easy to get distracted. I really want to get into Bolt Action, but to me the major difficulty is I want to get the models painted. But meanwhile I should really be finishing off my dark elder force which I have been doing all year.
Painting up a force of about 30 models is no small feat.
@warzan, so with a modified Zombicide rules, with your love of sharks, when are you doing Sharknado?
Dark Mages, love the guys in the costumes
Hope they come as stretch goals
Well of all the XLBS I have seen then that was indeed one of them!
LOL.
Great show have no arguments with its contents entirely and I respect this Galaxy of our hobby is so many many layers no one can say what is not for one is not food for another. Maybe its just a few others and myself that recently got into a discussion on the content of the XLBS in particular, that we found the general time given, (and I know I will possibly be slated for this, but hey it’s me after all) that the review of the Kick Starter side of the show sometimes eat’s a little longer into the rest of the show. I think that “To Me” I cannot look at it from another persons view point with the argument that I have to be magnanimous and it will appeal to different tastes. I wondered how many Kick Starters one avid person may back in one year, (I am not talking about the butterfly investor who see’s something invests see’s something else and moves that same pot away from the first to put into the next etc, etc. You are out there and I can see you as do a lot of others.) again I am not saying the show is poor, because from a what is out there point this has no rival, lets be clear. It is just that I find myself skipping the Kick starter from one to the next and in this weeks show it seemed percentage wise that it seems to grow in time from week to week. That is all I would like to say upon it, it is mine and several other peoples way we look at it and that means it is as correct as the way you view the show in your own way.
Chris Goddard
@chrisg you’re absolutely entitled to your opinion and to find some things less interresting than others. I enjoy the Kickstarter section. Partly it’s because I’ve backed quite a few (although these days I don’t pay a lot of attention to them during the life of the campaign once I’ve pledged) but it’s also because this is a very important part of our hobby now.
A lot of games and miniatures come into existence this way, and in some cases become well-known, successful brands almost over night. They also bring large numbers of hobbyists together in a way that sometimes lets them shape the outcome.
I realise there are failures and disappointments, and hype that wears off and so on, but it’s interesting that you don’t see this as a kind of ‘news’ segment.
‘Interesting’ not ‘wrong’ I hasten to stress!
It’s an interesting point. I must admit I skip the whole KS sections whenever there on
Great show again. I love how you promote different projects on KS but i have to make this complaint. Only two years ago i started wargaming. Bolt action and shortly after Saga. Loved them. then i found your site and shiny syndrome has kicked in and i now play many many different games and have figures for at least 2 factions in most games and am lucky to get 1 game of each different game every six months atm. still yet to get my infinity guys out as i refuse to play without them painted to table top standard.
Good on Justin too for standing up about proxying things and having a minimum level of paint. We play with at least base block colours and wash. and basic basing.
Bolt action is only one where units rarely need anything proxied and that is not to hard to follow as house rule states if asked what is in the unit and you forget to state unit make up then that gun or tank nade doesn’t exist.
I’m with John on the if you proxy x type of weapon for y, proxy all or not at all otherwise it does he confusing. I do this with my flames of war bases quite often where the rifle/mg bases become mg bases for a game.. Mixed units though are a no no for me as I’d lose track let alone my opponent. As for unpainted well I have no issue fighting against or fielding unpainted stuff, recently thou I’ve been having a drive at getting a fully painted army on the table. I too am going colour primer and then working on a unit at a time… Shiny syndrome does not help with this quest thou as the pile of new shineys often means that the paint queue ends up with even more of a backlog. Happy Sunday all
Just on the fully painted discussion, isn’t Wysiwyg that weird little alien magicIan thing that had a show on the BBC back in the 80s? No, wait…. that was Paul Daniels…
Your thinking of Wizbit….
Pretty sure the weird the looking one was Paul Daniels….
Excuse the extra definite article that slipped in there.
Warren’s new favorite word seems to be “asymmetrical.” Four or five times this week? Has he been reading a certain article series lately? 😉
18:50 – let’s please not forget the very large portion of this “hobby” where not only painting is not necessary, but the whole idea of models, miniatures, tables are completely dispensable as well. There are tens of thousands of us, folks, and we are wargamers too. 🙂
I still like both sides of the tables to match, in all honesty, though. Unpainted miniatures make TERRIBLE PHOTOS which you CAN’T post on battle reports. 😀
23:00 – I agree 100% with @dignity on this. I’m all for proxy figures, but too much is too much. It’s not “fussiness” or aesthetic, it actually screws up the game. A gamer has a finite amount of “brain cycles” to game with, which he or she is supposed to be investing in strategy, tactics, gameplay, ect. Bad enough we have the rules “in the way.” But if one player “imposes” the additional burden of constantly re-interpreting proxies on the other . . . that’s a “deliberate” (or at least “careless”) attempt to burn additional “RAM” in his opponent’s processor, and yeah . . . makes for unfair game play.
26:55 – the 8th Guards Soviets? Are we ever, EVER, going to publish that 8th Guards packet? It’s been 2 months?
If you want, @warzan , I will just publish it in a forum as a series of .jpeg images. 😀 Whatever works.
In @warzan ‘s defense, asymmetrical things are stunning! 😉
Took me a second to get that. 😀 Now I am “gobsmacked.”
I’ll play painted or not. My local club has a rule that as long as you are making good progress it’s cool if you’re not your opponent gets bonuses in combat. Just a friendly way to get everyone to work on their armies.
Great show as always.
I don’t like unpainted minis on the table, especially if they are metal. I would endure just a base coat, but that would imho make the table look to much like a board game rather than a miniature table top battle.
As for painted vs unpainted.. I think it totally depends on the “age” of the army.. you just unboxed Gates of Antares? You just picked up a new faction starter set for Infinity? You just got your Season 6 Dreadball team? No problem with them being grey or unpainted metal… you are actively in the process of magnetizing their arms or weapons? No problem with the weapons being not quite WYSIWYG… that said, if I’ve played you 4 times over the last 4 months and you are still using the same unpainted models that don’t have arms attached.. no we might have issues… also, as you guys have pointed out.. with a basic colored primer, maybe another color for faces or weapons, and then a painted or flocked base, and maybe a wash or the Army Painter Quick Shade and a sealer, you can have a good looking table top quality army in a few short hours… I get that not everone enjoys painted.. but there are ways to get the models to look good without spending hours and $$… I think for some games, maybe like Kings of War where the base size is the biggest important issue, where unpainted might be okay.. while other games, like Infinity or more skirmish level games where each weapon makes a difference, where the player has to put some effort into making it clear to the opponent what is what… I also think there is a huge difference between me and my buddy doing test army lists with proxies to see if we like a game or a unit or a model and me showing up at the gaming store for a league or tournament or scenario.. that said, there is only so much you can do about what other people do.. so the best thing you can do if you want painted armies and WYSIWYG is to make sure THAT IS WHAT YOU DO for your own forces.. show up with a primed, washed, based force 2 days after a game drops brand new into your gaming community and see everyone go “wow! that’s awesome!”.. and then show up for your tournament with a cohesive army, multiple army lists to hand out to opponents, and all your tokens and markers ready to go… I would much rather play an unpainted army where the player knows his force list and we can get down to playing right away than show up to find a nicely painted force where the player has no idea what he is fielding and takes 45 minutes writing up an army list to squeeze 5 more points into the force… so I guess it’s the lesser of 2 evils. #cthuhlu for president 2016
Great show, look forward to it every happy sunday
My minimum requirement for playing with models is that they are fully built. WYSIWYG is preferable to the degree that it should be clear at a casual glance what everything is supposed to be. But I don’t require models to be painted. Even though I love painting to a fairly high standard I have never finished any complete army. Or maybe it’s because of that. 🙂
Recently I converted to the Order of the Coloured Spraycan and applied it to my growing collection of Dreadball teams. Even with the basecoats all of them look decent. And now I can finish them one team at a time.
another epic xlbs, always sad when it finishes!
I have a personal rule that I will not let myself use unpainted mini’s – I find it helps keep the lead mountain under control.
I very occasionally use a proxy but when I do it is very clear to my opponent and I will only do it once – typically to see if the miniature/unit ‘works’ for me prior to buying the correct item.
I do not require my opponent to have anything painted although it’s obviously better if they do have stuff painted. I’m also very easy going with regards to my opponent proxying things…except in tournaments!
Typically in a tournament I have paid out a sum of money; entry fees, travel, accommodation, etc. and I expect to have a quality gaming experience which to me means everyone has a painted army (the level you guys did the Antares stuff is perfectly fine) and the tables look good.
Skyheart, hmm, I can see some really interesting miniatures coming from that IP.
Dreary Hamlet, I’m not too sure the word ‘dreary’ means the same thing on that side of the pond as in the States. Scary for sure, Horrible Hamlet indeed. Dreary would be the farthest thing from the proposed setting. With ‘dreary’, I see the highlight of the game would be seeing how many times the town stray dog takes a nap while trying to cross the main road, certainly not how many times he tries to eat you during a night.
My Madge is better than your Madge :p
More on Eden please!
Proxies are ok to ‘try before you buy’ but if we are sharing the pleasure of the hobby with each other, we should do our best to obtain representative miniatures if we can afford it.
Unless, like me, you’re a solo gamer, in which case anything goes!
Saying you don’t paint minis because you don’t have time sounds like pure horse shit to me. It takes, if you aren’t too fussy about the end result (and if you have scarce time you probably aren’t), only a few minutes to get a couple of base colours on the mini. You can then go and do something else. Once it’s dry it takes just a few minutes, certainly less than 5, to give it a quick drybrush. All in all you can have a sufficiently adequately painted mini in about 10 minutes of painting time per mini. It’s ok to say I don’t paint because I dislike painting or I don’t paint because to me it isn’t important that my minis are painted. But saying you have NO time to paint is just dishonest.
It depends. I generally get up at 645 on weekdays. Leave the house at 715. Get home at 1845. Doing the jobs that need doing and grabbing food generally takes till 830 at least. I have quite a draining job so I’m usually asleep by 2200. Weekends are usually spent with family or out at events.
That gives me no more than 90 minutes a night that could potentially be used for painting. With a puppy that requires attention, general lack of concentration due to tiredness and a family that it’s nice to communicate with occasionally, I find I have virtually no time to paint unless I’m taking annual leave from my job.
I also like my models painted to the best of my ability (which isn’t great) and I really don’t like the “prime, slap a couple of blocks of colour on and then wash” approach to painting, so a sizeable portion of my minis (hundreds of them) aren’t painted. I wish they were, but realistically that isn’t going to happen. I simply don’t have time to paint and that isn’t horseshit.
Painting army’s Hu mmm, for me it’s ard to do (not that i would love to but …) time and talents are missing i love a lot of miniature games but if i will getting a badly painted army then i prefer to get it unpainted , recently i have bought a lot of Wild West Exodus miniatures , they looks great and i think they are one of the best on the market so i want to take my time to do them a perfect job so it will give respect to the model i have made some painting and to do an ok job on them i have to spend a minimum of 1 hr to 2 and a halh hour job on each of them so immagine a fighting group of 30 to 40 miniatures it will consume all my time and they will be just ok so i have tried to find someone who will be willing to paint them for money or change the job for miniatures and in here (Quebec Canada) it’s really hard to find and if you know someone that will be ready to paint mini for a trade i have ton’s of different miniature game that i will not play(just because i have to concentrate on some and not all of them) to trade for painting job like Warhammer40K, Warmachine’ Incursion,some Deadzone army’s (not all because i really want to play that game) Dystopian Legions, Judge Dredd, Relick knight, and more also i dream of a Compagny that will make ready miniature like
AT-43 painted , built and ready to play , ok i know Dust are making some but after their mess on the kikstarter (and i still waiting to get some of my stuff) i hade decide to not buy again from them and around here no boddy want to play that game because of that mess so now i am alone with ton’s of Dust to play with but no one to play against , i love Skirmish games because i do not have to many mini to paint but still deserve a good painting job Like Mercs, Infinity, Pulp City, Batman, Eden, etc… my group just stared to play Bolt action witch is another great game but i am out just because there is to many minis to get a descent army , so i think you get my point 🙂
Unpainted armies are fine if players are new to the game, if they’re making no progress on them after months that would irritate me.
WYSIWYG for the win, hate not knowing what’s what.
But surely people should be painting because they enjoy it, nor just because it might irritate someone else if they don’t?
Lets see 10 min’s per figure you have bought lets say 46 or 50lets say 50 figures so thats what
500 mins, which is 8.33 re-o-curing. Now lets say you have two children and in this day and age your wife works so you by the time the children are in bed the washing is and the dinner is on for you and your wife. Have a conversation about your respective day,s so by 10:30 your hitting the sack because you work shifts and start at 6 am so your up at 5 am. You finish in time to pick up the kids from school which means you make their tea have to entertain them long enough on this night because they want to see their mum at bedtime, weekend little john plays under nines rugby and your people carrier is full of half the team, little sally does sunday morning ballet and don’t forget the birthday parties of their school friends and not ignoring your in laws and your own family where they need you to take them shopping and your dad needs to have some shelves put up and if you do not you know he will be doing it and then be that knackered he does himself no favours. And pause because you need to find a full working day to paint your toys, little men or even more of those things I thought you already had them, discussion. Lets face it Panzerkranzler there is nothing more to say, but someone is definitely talking horse shit and how dare you accuse anyone of dishonesty over a game of what is after all toy soldiers and I don’t think it’s the poor bugger who has everything else to hold together.
Then again if your up to looking after the family for the eight hours I need. If I say do get three hours that makes just short of three weeks before any gaming takes place between myself and my friends and then thats if they manage to fall on the same shift or in some cases maybe that will happen the first week you have the games minis and wont be for another month and a half. And thats when you have managed to sort out child sitting.
Seems a bit dogmatic to me mate.
Empire of the Dead. Woot! Just finished my black mariah, moving on to the steam power suit.
Where proxying is concerned I think Justin is being a tad contradictory. I personally don’t like proxies that aren’t miniatures so I would not accept pennies or condiment jars, however if they had a mini but just wanted to play it as something different I’m cool with that. This is where Justin’s contradiction comes into play as he says that he would want a proxy to be similar or close but then complains about how he would know it’s not what it appears. So from that perspective I would prefer someone to field a fantasy mini in a Sci-fi game to make the proxy clear.
As for painting like everyone else painted armies do make playing more fun. Unpainted they just don’t seem finished. That being said I have a lot of unpainted miniatures because I’m not very good at painting and don’t enjoy it much, but I like my miniatures painted and can’t afford to get somebody else to do it so I muddle through it.
So a bit like Warren suggests I’m happy to play against unpainted forces as long as over time their is some progress towards painting them. If someone showed up for 6 months with the same unpainted force then I think I would have a word that they needed to make a bit more of an effort or God forbid show a bit of community spirit and try and help the person out with the project.
Is it just me or if anyone else would like to see a Compagny that offer ready to play miniatures
i meen built and painted ?
skirmish size is ok with me 😉
magedelanuit
LIke DUST ?
yes but like i said in a previous comment i am out with them 🙁
I’d be fine with it if they were painted to a master’s standard… but that’s never the case.
Base coated minis look better by far . But as a lot of the guys at the LHS play multiple games , there is always a unit or two in grey plastic or base coat . Never enough time in the day to get all the hobby stuff done . My pet peeve is vehicles without crew figures . All halftracks need a driver and all SPGs need gun crews ! If your going to push empty vehicles around the board you might as well make engine noises as well as the BANG ! when you fire the gun . lol
Since I’m the only one in our gaming group who actually buys and paints any of the models, it’s up to me in what state the miniatures are in before he game. That means I mostly turn up with my own army/warband/team/faction painted, while they have to settle for “plastic grey” 😛
magedelanuit
I dont know if there is another company that does pre painting figures of your scale and type, you probably have already have look on line you never know
Good hunting mate
magedelanuit
sorry about mentioning DUST just re read your previous comment on DUST and sorry to hear to still waiting on stuff mate must be very frustrating
chrisg
Happy Sunday and thanks for another great show!
For me just as a stardard paint on my mini would be great i can Wash them and give them a little bit of lightning to upgrade the quality of them , so just do that on a mini does not take long and give another look at all the game i would play
Is Ben in his dressing gown ffs?
And straighten your poppies!
That is all
I think those solar auxilia could make a good looking unit of Stormblade Infantry for Cygnar.
Hobby-time, this weekend the focus has been on making more Hirst arts blocks and planning out a bit of Frostgrave terrain.
Happy Sunday. Sky heart looks real nice especially great for ones with little ones.
Totally off topic .. but here is a kickstarter that might interest some out there http://miniaturewargamingthemovie.com/
If someone doesn’t want to take the time to build and paint their army, then he should play games that don’t require that time/talent investment like X-wing.
Build? That I can agree with. Paint? That’s a whole different thing.
Happy Sunday, great show as always 🙂
I love playing against painted armies, but have sadly lacked the time to get back into painting in recent years. This is something I intend to rectify at the earliest opportunity, but please be aware that for some people a policy of playing painted or not at all would just force them out of the hobby.
I would actually prefer to play against some nice colour printed cardboard standees on bases with some nice artwork, instead of unpainted miniatures.
I am a unit at a time kind of guy. I usually have some nicely painted units and a few unpainted ones, I like to finish a unit and get it fully done and varnished. I think it is mostly a tournament thing for me….you should get your army done even if you get somebody else to do it (that’s another topic:) ). At the club I go to the Ribble Warriors you would rightly get some digs if you turned up with a completely bare plastic army which would hopefully encourage you to get started painting,
Eden is really starting grab me as game. I far more prefer smaller skirmish games than larger, sprawling armies.
The guys I play with have no problem with mixed painted/unpainted models and will make exceptions to wysiwyg on occasions… But coins? No chance. But I guess it depends if your game needs true LOS…
I think foremost the pressure to get models painted to a good standard for play should come from us, and be really a pride thing in our armies. I’m not a great painter – but it’s been commented that I always field an army painted to a good standard. That said, tournaments were a big turn off for me because of the minimum standards – I guess I would like more to encourage people to take pride in their models, than enforce/police standards.
But I totally get trying to be fair and not confusing to your opponent. I used to have a Rhino with a really cool looking piece glued to the side – but it used to make people think it was some kind of assault cannon Razorback proxy. So I redid it out of a sense of fair play.
I heard about a tournament event in Lower Hutt – ValleyCon. They are going to run as an event a Bolt Action “learn the game” weekened – where they will teach the rules and encourage people to bring their armies in (as long as they’re assembled), in whatever state they’re in. I really think some kudos for that – it has my son quite excited. As with your Boot Camps, we need that mix of tournament play, but on the other side of the coin, just workshops for getting into the game and really encouraging a love of playing it.
Just catching up…. Happy Sunday!
I personally think that proxying models like special weapons etc. for things as minute as space marine special weapons shouldn’t happen. You can easily buy the bits that you need from eBay for a few £’s but you get the majority of the pieces to create the model within the boxsets anyway nowadays. It’s different if it’s a thing like a tank or whatever but, even then, there are always ways around it because you can attach and reattach things without gluing them.
As for painting; I personally think that a person should take the time out to prime, base coat, wash and at least dry brush their miniatures to bring them up to a tabletop standard but, as long as the main colour is there, it shouldn’t be an issue. Putting 2 or 3 block colours on your models isn’t exactly difficult nor do those simple steps actually take up a lot of time. You don’t even need a paint brush nowadays to do it due to how quickly technology has advanced for painting novices.
I find I disagree – really everything depends on context. Especially for Warhammer 40k, when new rules/models come out, you often find you need to playtest the rules to find out whether you want to go down that route BEFORE you buy a whole new box of models.
An example has been my son has been proxying the new Breacher Tau models, and found out their kind of play doesn’t work for his tactics. That’s cool – the alternative would have been to spend an equivalent of 50 pounds (NZ Games Workshops prices are much more than UK ones), before finding that out.
I’ve done similar in home games – trying out proxied gravity guns, creating my own type of gun (because when you own over 200 marines, it’s a hard sell to your wife to buy a whole box at NZ prices just to get one gun). I then quickly found I prefered the plasma gun. Also tried out Centurions, to likewise find I prefered using Assault Terminators.
This of course is fine, and should be encouraged in friendlies – getting people to work out what works for them. But at tournaments there should be an expectation of a higher standard.
And just to get my grandfather gaming rocking chair out … I remember first edition Warhammer 40k, where Games Workshop gave you a cardboard cutout of a dreadnought to use in the starter set to proxy. Technically that cardboard cutout is a legitimate model lol.
@testsheepnz – I’d love to see the faces of GW staff if you showed up with one of those cardboard dreadnoughts to a store!
Although actually the dreadnought was from the second edition of the game, which came in a box. First edition was just a book: Rogue Trader.
A great interesting show the solar auxilia sound appealing the kickstarters are different the skyheart book looks brilliant
@warzan if you are interested laputa is very similar look to skyheart you & the kids will probably love the film?
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Castle+in+the+Sky+Trailer&FORM=RESTAB#view=detail&mid=BEB9B9357D0EF9D7BD9ABEB9B9357D0EF9D7BD9A
Here’s a late Happy Sunday! to all BoW members!
I agree that priming should be a bare minimum, but I’d put extra stress on the bare bit. I like the table top to look nice, i’m pretty fussy bout terrain too though,
That is so true. We’ve been manic about preparing our armies. Our terrain wasn’t even basecoated.
We put a lot of effort into upping our game this year though. We play in a back space of our garage, and decided to paint up the room, get some shelving and heaters, and created a nice space for hobbies. And that made us look critically at what we’re doing. We ended up getting all our scenery painted, and even created some space for painting in there. It’s all worked out nicely for us.
Yes, Yes, Happy Sunday!!
I dont like playing against unpainted minis unless the player is brand spanking new. I played in a tournament against a very cheesey army that literally had 3 colors on each model just so they could say they were painted. Maybe they just cant paint?
These Kickstarter segments are starting to get very dangerous for my wallet. I backed the Dreary Hamlet one just because it was Australian based.
WIZ-ARDS! oh boy… ‘nough said!
The more i see those Antares minis, the more i want to check it out more, they look really nice.
Thanks for the Skyheart Book 1 KS, i will check it out as soon as i log off, it’s really, really beautiful!
See you next week.
Nice spures for TY! I am looking forward to seeing how it plays when the boot-campers get their hands on it.
I know not Sunday morning for me, but a good Monday morning to your all for another great show and yes this EDEN is looking very nice for a post apocalyptic setting game, nice game system and really nice miniatures.
Another good episode 🙂 love to watch these every week 🙂
I’m glad those mauser earth models are back again, they are the perfect painting project.
the Solar Auxilia would look cool for a 20,000 leagues under the Sea game
Airwolf!! Airwolf!!! gonna download the theme tune now
So this weeks shows are all cock and balls!!
Really enjoyed the first part of the show, though I abi worried that the weekenders are turning kickstarter revew show. It seemed that half of the xlbs was kickstarter based.
I’m happy to let people play with unpainted minis but would prefer them to go to a base colour at some point, I have no trouble with proxies as long as it fairly easy to see what there representing in game.
These last two weekenders were some of the best entertainment in a long while. John’s facial expressions, just priceless, and Warren just kept them coming. Great shows as usual.
Been there done that Warren with regard to were does the sprue end and the model begin
If you don’t want to play someone because of how painted/unpainted their army is that’s fine. I totally understand how that can pull you out of the zone. I am all for proxying though. Imagine the scenario of paying £20+ on a single big model, assembling and painting it for like 6 hours and then finding it doesn’t gel with you army. The poor model is doomed to sit on your shelf forever and you wasted a whole bunch of time. Or you can proxy it with a cheese sandwhich or whatever for a few games.
I like the Askari Elkleb from the Askaris faction. Antipodes, on earth, eating clowns. What’s not to like?
Armies painted or not painted.
I only play my games with my son.
A massive part of the hobby is paint.
But this has actually cost me playing time.
I can’t play until they are painted because it needs to look cool so you can emerse yourself into the game.
I’m sure my son would happily play unpainted just so we can play more often and sooner.
The idea of playing against proxy miniatures where there is absolutely no resemblances to what it is meant to be seems too far and and unfair to me.
The furthest proxy me and my son have done has been that my son fielded a British Firefly and used a US Sherman Tank because that’s all we have. My son also fielded a US Airborne 30. Cal. Machine gun, but used and pointed it as a 50 Cal. again because we didn’t have a 50 Cal.
If I was at a club playing, I would prefer to play with a minimum of primed, so at least you can see whose side is whose. The every week being grey becoming boring comment from Justin seems fair and accurate to me.
Don’t require top quality paint jobs to play with, because this takes too long, is petty and in my case is actually reducing the amount of play.
Don’t turn up with a majority of badly put together grey miniatures, with a dozen hard to follow proxy minis because it’s not really fair on your opponent.
If you get too snippy about it all, you may reduce those willing to play and I think finding friends willing to play can often be the hardest part of the hobby.
Happy Sunday! I want….Never played Eden, but I have been looking at their site since watching this and I want.
Painted and wisiwig for me depends on the situation. I love playing a fully painted game but if a friend wants to try a new list and does their best to be as wisiwig as they can they I’ll help them out and play them. It’s the spirit of the game.
lads use the x-wing rules for the helicopter war at the end of your team yankie boot camp..?????
I enjoyed the section about painted models..i like to play against painted models…..it bring the game alive….oh just a quick note for you have you seen the Warcraft movie release on you tube…looks good..great show again lads…
I want a full starter set painted not just one ;D
well, I only get to watch the weekender sometime during the week, so I hope its not too late to comment for the win.
Thanks for the show guys, you get me through the week.
Forget about other peoples’ minis – I don’t want to play with my own minis unless they are painted properly! Painting them up is what makes them “mine” and gives them a personality.
don’t mind playing with people with unprimed figures or poxies as long as the poxies are mark in some way
I do like when tournaments have additional pointage for theme, conversions and painting. Its doesn’t have to be a lot of points but recognises those who have gone a little further. I also like the the awards for sportmanship too. As for playing with friends we have a club rule of “its up to you”, that being said most at least base and during Campaigns and Leagues we add points for painted forces but that is done at the end and most of these last six months, points are also awarded for progress if you didn’t manage to finish them all.
I think the hardest part of the Eden competition will be picking a model from such a great range with so much diversity.
The Sky Heart finisher was very nice and felt very Avatar:the last airbender in its form. I imagine all artists out there who do our kind of geek have an imagined world of characters and creatures they wish they could put to paper and have published. The whole thing looks great and I agree this would make a great RPG if the game play feel had that same sensitivity and gentleness that the world seems to exude.
assembly and painting of the first kingdom death sprues ! 🙂 good times
I hope i get to win this time.
No mention of the competition, but getting my comment in just in case 🙂
I prefer to play against an army that is to high a painting standard as possible. While that’s my preference, it’s not my expectation. I appreciate the limits of time, skill, and motivation that everyone has, including myself! My base standard is ‘most of the army/faction has color, and some models might have only primer, because they’re new additions’. From there, my expectation is that my opponent shows some amount of progress each time, if at all possible.
This expectation sets a higher standard than average, probably. I make it work for both players by being selective with whom I play, i.e. I only play with friends (and sometimes at tournaments) where our goals and expectations are in the same ballpark. I respect people who view the hobby differently. I’m just careful to stay out of each other’s sandboxes. That way, neither one of us gets annoyed.
As a single parent that works a demanding full-time job and has two young children that live with me all the time, I can TOTALLY understand the dilemma of finding time to paint, play, or even watch the weekenders! 🙂
I have a great local shop I can rarely visit, let alone stay and play. I work in a few minutes of hobby here and there, but that amounts to little at this point. I really like the idea of painting armies/forces in steps (which is not what I have typically done in my 25 years of gaming). I may have to give that a try.
Of course, winning a pro-painted model is a nice way to get things done, too. 😉
For all the focus on painting models, i think that having a nice tabletop and scenery to play on can make a huge difference to the immersion. Probably more so than the miniatures.
I’m going to be a total hypocrite, because I’ve used cardboard, plastic pots, half made miniatures, etc. as proxies, but i think that there is a good argument for saying that you’ll only play against painted armies. (The guy who started the thread did make clear that he didn’t mind playing new starters who haven’t been able to get everything done, etc.)
It’s about community and tough love. Out of context, on it’s own, it sounds harsh and elitist. But looked at from a community perspective, where we all benefit from being surrounded by painted armies, I can see that pressure to ‘paint if you want to play’ could actually be a good thing, the encouragement some people need – myself included – to not just uphold standards for everyone else but also to have a better time with your own models.
Not sure I’m likely to ever field an entirely painted army (though perhaps I would if I was forced to), and I do understand not wanting to just ‘slap on a base coat’ if your intention is to paint up the minis ‘at some point in the future’ to a better standard. But I don’t think it’s unreasonable to try to encourage common, higher, standards that make games more enjoyable for everyone.
Like the art book-makes me think of Dark Crystal and Neverending Story. Great show guys. 🙂
I understand that many people are not good painters and find it a chore. I certainly am not good.
I don’t mind playing against unpainted armies, especially if someone has a new army or unit and want to get playing with it.
I would agree that colour spray primer and a but of dip really speeds things up and can make an army reasonable enough very quickly. It is amazing what a small amount of time investment this can be but really elevate a game.
Hope That Fow team yankee will releas a 2player box to get some usa and russians..
This black friday would be a Madness.