Weekender XLBS: Will Star Wars Bring You To The Tabletop?
January 10, 2016 by warzan
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Happy Sunday!
Another great show guy! A few questions and observations.
Having only seen all of the Star Wars films for the first time this Christmas, what is so controversial with the prequels. I loved them but many consider them dreadful, am I missing something? I’ve subsequently a pretty extensive x-wing collection, probably because it’s one of the few games my wife will play and we love it.
Looking at the latest releases therm appears less definition between board games and tabletop war-games. I think the gap between the classic board games like Monopoly and classic war-games such as 40k has closed and somewhat overlaps in places.
Love the dragon cameo John, very subtle shading, I really like the brickwork.
Big yes to an atmosphere star wars tabletop war game! Would love to see FFG run with this, such a quality company.
I wonder if GW with franchise out their retail chain come the time of acquisition?
These are just my opinions so highly subjective but Ep1 was terrible for a variety of reasons, Ep2 was better but still not great and Ep3 was quite good. I think Ep1 tarnished the rest, I was about 16 or something like that when Ep1 was released and I still thought it was rubbish.
The new Star Wars film I just found highly enjoyable as a film even taken apart from the previous films.
To me having watched the films for the first time now in my 50`s, I wonder if too much is read into them. I find them entertaining but don’t feel as though they fall into the si-fi genre. There’s a bit too much of the Dr. Who about the early films. This isn’t a critisism, I do truly enjoy every film. I suppose looking back on the build quality and storyline of some films around back when I was a kid I’m easily impressed. I’ve also watched a number of documentaries into how the films were created and I think that has adhered me to them knowing how much effort went in.
They are sci-if, but they’re in the subset of Science Fantasy/Space Opera. Basically they’re in the part of Speculative Fiction where Sci-Fi overlaps with Fantasy.
As for the dislike for the prequels, it’s largely down to the plots and dialogue not being as good as the originals (eg. Compare “Now this is pod racing” or “I hate sand” to “I love you” “I know” or “No, I am your father”), to too much emphasis being put on the effects and them not feeling like they fit with the originals at times. Generally they feel very inferior. Another aspect is probably to do with how popular the EU was at the time. Although the EU had been forbidden from exploring that timeline, I believe there were a few things mentioned about it and had been okayed for canonicity by Lucasfilm and then the prequels came out with stuff that contradicted them I think, so that upset the EU fans.
Overall though, I think the problem is that the flaws of the prequels outweighed any of the positive apects. That’s not to say that the originals were flawless, far from it, just that people have found it easier to overlook them than the prequel’s. Many think this is largely down to how for the originals Lucas had people to reign him in/consult with/edit his scripts and he handed off directing duties for ESB and RotJ, whereas for the prequels he had none of that due to the clout he had, sort of like how some Trek fans look on the early seasons of TNG with some disapproval because unlike TOS Roddenberry had the clout to dictate his ideas to the writers.
There’s also the fact that the prequels gave us Jar Jar. ;p
I think a recent interview Lucas gave also shows the mentality that lead to flaws with the prequels. In the interview he criticised Disney for rejecting his ideas because “they’re making movies for the fans”, so from this it’s easy to infer that he doesn’t care about the franchise’s fan base and probably didn’t when he made the prequels. While making something exclusively for fans is not necessarily a good idea as it could end up impenetrable to non-fans, alienating them is a worse idea as you can’t guarantee that the influx of new fans will replace the out flux of disenchanted old fans.
Regarding that last paragraph, I feel like I understand exactly what Lucas meant about Disney making a movie for the fans. Star Wars is – or rather, was – his baby. It was up to him to decide the events which would take place before A New Hope, and ultimately it would have been up to him to decide what events took place after RotJ. For better or for worse, the people holding the purse strings during the prequels were not there on set with the power of veto over what Lucas wanted to put into the film. So ultimately, it would always come down to “Anakin and Padme get a lot of romance scenes in this film because that’s what happened. They were in love, and ultimately it would end in tragedy and be one of the reasons that Anakin would go on to become Vader.” verus “No, we’re having some rebels fighting a big evil regime because that’s what fans want.”
With TFA, Lucas had sold away his rights to not only have input on the film but to ensure it was in anyway consistent with what had gone before. This allowed Disney to assemble a film that largely allowed them to say “Screw what came before, how can we make as much money from this film as possible?” and the answer was.. give fans what they said they wanted. Star Wars, all over again, but with better effects and less ‘baggage’ so that people who don’t give a monkey’s about Star Wars will also love the film. In that sense, they have been very successful.
But for me, they made something that was a better movie than the prequels (really liked the casting for Rey, Poe and Finn), but a far less enjoyable Star Wars experience. Forgettable, even. During the opening crawl I was grinning like a mad man but little did I realise that this would be the high point of the film for me. After the credits rolled, I was entirely despondent.
So in answer to the question @warzan asked, yes, I have no doubt that this film has enough public interest that a range of gaming products can (and will) be launched off the back of it even though they are going to pull something out of their butt in terms of content (for example FFG have already given us the new T70 and s/f Tie.. barring Ren’s shuttle and the lazily designed First Order landing craft, there were no new ships for X-Wing..)
As for my enthusiasm for Star Wars gaming? It has defiantly taken a hit thanks to TFA. Attack of the Clones makes me want to run another Star Wars SAGA RPG or dig out my copy of Battlefront 2. The opening to RotS makes me want to dig out any on-rails Star Wars space combat game I have or go and read some of the nixed EU books that do a great job on expanding on the final moves of Palpatines grand strategy.
TFA, however, just remind me I had some Call of Duty games to finish.
@siygess : Star Wars was his baby, but I feel like it grew beyond him long before the prequels. And his comment sounded like he was sour over the fact that Disney had dared make something that wasn’t for him.
I don’t think any of the fans were opposed to the romance plot or the concept that it would result in pushing him over the edge. What they didn’t like was the execution and dialogue.
And as I said, for many the prequels didn’t feel like they gelled with the originals, so Lucas wasn’t really interested in keeping them consistent with what had gone before (well after) anyway. Maybe it’s nostalgia talking or not having watched the film’s in a while, but I felt like TFA followed on better from the originals than the prequels preceded them. The things in TFA felt like a natural outgrowth of the originals, the Empire fracturing into multiple empires, the Rebellion reforming into the Republic, etc while the prequels didn’t feel like they worked especially as they were supposed to be about the downfall of Anakin and we don’t really get to see that plotted out that well (although admitantly that’s because a lot of the character growth would occur in the periods between films so is a problem with the format really).
That’s not to say TFA is flawless, far from it. It’s biggest flaw is ironically probably its strength over the prequels – that it borrowed so heavily from the OT. Second biggest flaw was Kylo Ren. Mask on he was okay and had the makings of the next Vader. Mask off, save for the scene with Han, he was more like the PT Anakin.
As for motivating gaming, I’m almost the opposite – none of the prequels really make me want to play a war game or computer game. TFA doesn’t either, but I’d be more inclined to pick up a war game set in the TFA period than the PT period.
Fair enough man. I disagree (for me, the faults of the prequels are outweighed by the story Lucas was trying to tell and what it contributed to the Star Wars saga, while the much better execution of TFA didn’t make up for the lack of a new story or lore that logically builds on what happened in 1 – 6).. but I also know I’m in the minority. My other, equally Star Wars-mad buddies think I’m nuts.
@siygess : while the story he was *trying* to tell might outweigh the faults, the story he *actually* told doesn’t for the anti-PTers, in fact some of the time that is the flaws. While he had a noble idea in trying to make the PT story, he just didn’t have the skill to craft it.
TFA is largely a retread of the OT, but it does build lore wise on it.
But each to their own, and if you prefer the PT, good for you 🙂
Btw, if you’re interested in actual analysis of the flaws/merits of the film’s, check out the SFDebris forum 🙂
Just done an update to this post. Note to self, don’t try to type a post whilst listening to the Weekender, lol
To answer your original question, there are a lot of problems with the prequels, almost too many to really discuss in a forum post. In broad strokes the problems lie with the script and dialog, a lack of real direction, and George’s almost pathological need to cram as many marketable objects into the movies as possible, regardless their detrimental effect on the plot (three different villains is totally unnecessary, especially when one is killed off, his replacement introduced then also killed off all in the space of half a movie).
What I won’t criticize is the casting. Most of the actors are competent to quite good, including the one that played Anakin (who fans love to hate on). The major problem there is that Lucas failed to utilize the talent he was working with.
If you’re interested in an in-depth and entertaining analysis of the movies, look up the Plinkett reviews on Youtube. You really only need to see the one for the Phantom Menace, most of the issues with that movie carry over into the other two (although the other reviews are still worth watching for entertainment value and a few points that weren’t covered during the first video, but aren’t really worth it unless you have an interest in film making, Star Wars, or are just entertained by the style). Be warned, however, they are a fairly significant time investment, running for a good hour or so each.
The prequels are much more palatable when viewed in their cut form. Try out Episode 3.1: Turn to the Darkside. It cuts 3 movies down to 2.5 hours, with just 10mins of Episode 1 staying in. The cut refocuses the films on Anakin’s journey, and also removes the superfluous scenes (pod racing, that bloody chase on the parrot monster thingy etc etc). The end result is a film that slots right in between 5 and 6 if you watch the series in Machete order.
Give these reviews a watch: http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/
They may help understand the problem many have with the prequels.
Great show guys. Next Movies are Rogue One (Stealing the plans for the Original Death Star and will have Peter Cushing in it created from his old movies), Episode VII, Han Solo Movie from his younger days, Episode VIII, Bobba Fett Movie
It’s a good thing they junked the EU otherwise this’d be the hundredth time the Rebels stole the Death Star plans :p
Morning chaps,
Just wanted to share something I saw regarding the Jedi and The Force falling into myth & legend over the 30 years after Endor. Consider that, during the scenes where Luke actually shows off his Jedi abilities (Jabba’s sail barge, fighting Vader on Bespin and the final confrontation on the Death Star II), other than his friends there are no witnesses to his actions, so effectively it’s been 50 years since the end of the Clone Wars and the Jedi were a presence amongst the everyday folk of the Republic/Empire. Not so hard to believe they would have past into legend by that point…
Not perfect though, but still ticked all the nerd buttons I’d been trying to resist getting pushed 🙂
Handily my Imperial Star Destroyer arrived the week after for Armada, and my next gaming night it got me to pull out my copy of Imperial Assault.
(One quick point, apparently there’s a reason The Resistance don’t back down is that they really can’t. What you see, Poe’s fighter, 2 squads of X-Wings, a transport and the bunker base? That is the ENTIRE Resistance. No capital ships like the Rebel Alliance, no multiple bases, no dedicated commando’s to join Finn, Han & Chewie. It’s why when they say “Half the fleet has been destroyed” they aren’t kidding….)
And Rogue One – A Star Wars Tale will tell the story of how the plans for the first Death Star were captured by the Rebels ahead of A New Hope. If nothing else the cast alone makes me go all fan-boyish. Due out Christmas 2016 🙂
Also there were maybe 1000-2000 Jedi in the Galaxy most of them scholars or agents so most people in the galaxy would never have seen a real Jedi in the flesh anyway. Plus the Empire did kill 99% of them from the old history in the Second Jedi purge. Even Revan fell into mystery after his disappearance and he had a much larger and more open effect than Luke
Happy Sunday!
Firstly re Star Wars I thought it was a good remake of Episode 4, but there was little to re energise my interest. Having read all the “legends” books (even the really crappy ones!) I think there was much more scope for a truly epic movie. To me though it was just a damp squib!
On the GW hypothetical take over, I could actually see the retail chain being kept. When GW started all those years ago, it was a 1 stop shop for all RPG’s, board games, card games and miniatures. GW back then hardly made any of their own games and White Dwarf was a truly cosmopolitan magazine. I think that such a big retail chain in most big cities would be a really attractive proposition for what is after all just a distribution company at the moment. With proper support, no more 1 man stores, proper training of staff and a wide selection of games in one place I can see a resurgence of the high street store as they could stock far more variety than 90% of the independent retailers could ever hope to!
As a war gamer who has become more of a board gamer, I feel that I have a take on why the board game industry is growing. One the figure is some of the board games are of a great standard which allows me and possibly others to fulfill their painting bug. The other is having reached a certain age where kids arrive, the kids find it easier to play a game which contains everything and has a rich story rather than being faced with hundreds of figures along with massive books of rules which change every 5 years. There is also the growth of the skirmish games like Frostgrave. Overall I think one of the major drivers is time I believe the wargamers of the past have less time for the hobby and board games and skirmish games fill that gap, will in my life anyway.
UPDATE
Another great show guys!
Having seen all of the Star Wars films for the first time this Christmas, why are the prequels so controversial? I loved them but many consider them dreadful, am I missing something? I’ve subsequently amassed a pretty extensive x-wing collection, probably because it’s one of the few games my wife will play and we love it!
Looking at the latest game releases there appears to far less definition between board games and tabletop war-games these days. I think the gap between the classic board games of old like Monopoly and classic war-games such as 40k has closed and somewhat overlap in places.
Love the dragon cameo John, very subtle shading, I really like the brickwork.
Big yes to an atmosphere based Star Wars tabletop war game! Would love to see FFG run with this, such a quality company.
Always worth a quick dip into the sewer of commerce guys, no harm in that but always finish on a fluffy note. With regard to any potential acquisition of games workshop, to my way of thinking it would make better sense to retain the stores. The majority of newbies coming into the hobby are of school-age and probably only know of Warhammer through their local store or by flicking through White Dwarf in their WHSmith reading library. As complete newbies they are very unlikely to be aware of other wargaming companies. The stores are nurturing centres into the world of war hammer and associated products. Parents see The GW store as an opportunity to pacify little Jimmy on a shopping trip and introduce him into a artistic, constructive activity which might take him away from his PlayStation or Xbox for an hour or so. They are usually impressed by the well painted models in the display cabinet’s, the easy to play demo where little Jimmy wins and are invariably seduced by the store managers patter. By the promise of a safe environment for Little Jimmy to paint and play with his models in store, grateful parent are quick to invest in a starter set, paints, brushes, tools, totally unaware of the independent store down the road offering a blanket 20% discount. Trust me, I’ve seen this scenario many times.
I personally see the GW stores as the `goose` in the golden GW empire. I think they would not be the force they have been without them.
*spoilers in post if you’ve not seen Star Wars FA*
Star Wars was both quite good and somewhat dull. It was actually pretty great to see the old heroes appear again (Han, Leia and Chewie) but the dialogues between Han and Leia were horribly cringy. It was good that Han died, that gives space to a potential new character to fill his niche. The movie has some characters whose flaws make them quite interesting with the notable exception of the mary sue character of Rey. Making one of the two most important characters an unflawed perfect character kills off any potentially interesting character growth.
The movie has some pretty awesome sets and is, of course, visually stunning. But it’s also repetetive, the story in itself is just recycled from the other movies with no hint at all of any new thinking. The silly paralell between nazis and first order feels overdone and totally redundant, why not make an interesting and original faction instead of the old and tired cliche space nazi thing? And…master SNOKE. Who the fuck came up with that horrible name for an evil master? Master snoke is a name you give to a cat or your hamster.
All in all the movie is a clear reboot and Abrams used it mostly to signal to the viewers that he’s going to make his movies more like the old ones than the new ones ones, which I think is good. But his next movie has to be more inventive and fresh.
To be fair he’s an alien – maybe to his race that’s a scary name. For all we know something like Fluffy McFluffington is something that’d strike terror into the hearts of his entire race ;p
Kylo Ren and Finn are both developing, interesting characters. You can’t have too much development and character growth in one movie. I thought The Force Awakens offered a great, flawed villain and something new, a redeemed Stormtrooper. There wasn’t a phantom bad guy, they were clear, and that is a good thing. This movie was made for teens or even younger, remember.
The old characters played nice parts in the movie and the story introduced a new cast. Not everything was recycled and I think Rey could see some growth in the next film…at least, it’s been set up to give her that chance.
Yeah, the only thing that was recycled was the plot.
Great show guys as usual…
Rouge One is about a commando raid on the first Death Star to steal the plans….
I don’t think it was a remake of episode four. I thought the first third was, the second third empire and the last third return of the Jedi. Agree with the in jokes comment though.
Forgot to say but I enjoyed it. 7/10 for me but after the prequels I was really happy with it.
While watching big Ben with video lag, I was reminded of Max Headroom.
Happy Sunday! – been a while since I said that…
As an old git who was mid-teens in 1977 and is a bit cynical about the whole Disney thing… with the new SW film there were parts that I wasn’t so much thinking about TT gaming but wondered what came first in certain sequences – the video-game design/storyboards or the film?
As for a Star Wars Miniatures based War game it’s wothwhile looking at what other licenses might ‘get in the way’ unless this was considered when they were carved up; for example teh Revell range of plastic models at all sorts of scales, some of which are aimed at those with minimal modelling skills and are quite affordable (http://www.revell.com/model-kits/entertainment/starwars.html). Some of their EasyKits (a few, click together parts) for sensible pocket money prices…
I don’t think the retail chain would be retained if GW were acquired by Asmodee or HASBRO. They’re both companies who sell a wide portfolio via independent retailers and the chain costs a lot of money to maintain. It’s ingrained in GW because they value them as fundamental to their recruitment. I don’t think that would be the case for a diverse company like Asmodee.
Of all the types of tabletop gaming, boardgames definitely have the biggest chance of going mainstream, for the reasons mentioned in the show. It’s already happening to some degree with the likes of Catan.
I thought TFA was a solid 6 or 7/10. It has narrative flaws but is a competent piece of filmmaking with some nice moments. I have no strong attachment to the franchise so it neither tickled by Star Wars bone nor ruined my childhood. I found it a bit like a fast food meal. Reasonably satisfying at the time but it didn’t stick in the memory.
I was left with a slight dissapointment to the whole film; i actually went to see it again and this feeling was confirmed. Dont get me wrong, there were a lot of great parts to the film, but it felt forced at times and wasnt allowed to move natuarally at its own pace. I also felt that they didnt need the original crew; Harrison Ford, l felt, was surplus to requirement – did he do this role to finally ensure that his character was killed? Still, it was a vast improvement on the last three and ill be there to watch the next installements. Not the best film of 2015, that goes to Mad Max; Fury Road.
the next behemoth is coming…Do we really need it? Will we get great looking games? Probably. Will we pay through the nose to get our plastic coated popcorn, without a doubt. The whole experience with GW has me wary and filling the gap with another gaming corporation. But i suppose the demographics have shown where the potential money is and a plan on how to coherse this from us. A bit cynical? Yes, but this cash cow is wary….
happy sunday… what a great show
@johnlyons your dracoliche looks awesome, having just painted the red dragon mini from that range i have to say they are amazing sculpts and so detailed an absolute joy to paint
as too starwars i saw the film just because, but it really still has not inspired me to war game in that universe, our club is doing a x-wing day and i just cannot get on with that. I really dont know what it is that the idea of starwars or even star trek series i have enjoyed since childhood dont inspire me to game.
Happy Sunday,
Saxon miniatures are beautiful sculpts and yes they are using Little Big Man Studio decals on the shields on those saxons, you’ll be seeing them in a couple of hours Justin 😉
I’ll get you into SAGA yet.
Keep trying G keep trying
With the release of an official Dark supplement for Lion Rampant being released I would be tempted going down that route
Ooh I did not know that. It’ll be great to have another ruleset for that case of Welshies.
Saxons fighting Normans?….Umm No
Alfred fighting Saxons. Err No
Saxons fighting Britain’s after invading/invited after the Romans left ….yes.
Hastings is Anglo Saxons which is centuries of inter marriage and settlement by the Saxons
I don’t think Warzan actualy cared; he was just desparately setting up Justin for the Early/Late Saxon (the Heavy Metal band) joke. 😉
In any case, the minis they show are just Anglo-Danish, not Saxons.
They’re just misspeaking because the name of the company is Saxon…
doesnt Imperial Assault have two rule books in it? one for boardgame and one for wargame
It has two rulebooks and ways to play, the campaign play and skirmish. The skirmish is for one-off games when both pick a force and fight a scenario, but it still uses the same tiles and same core rules so it isn’t any more wargame than the campaign.
Happy Sunday!!!!
@warzan: A wyrm is just an archaic name for a dragon that was repopularised by Tolkien. I think most people tend to use wyrm to refer to wingless dragons, but technically it applies to both varieties (iirc both Glaurung, the father of dragons who was wingless, and Smaug who was winged are called wyrms). On a side note, wyrm is where the word worm is derived from, so unless I’m mistaken, wyrm tends to be used for the more serpentine bodied dragons rather than the fat bodied ones. Then you have Oriental dragons which are a hole other kettle of fish.
Wyverns have wings encorporated into their forelegs, but also in most settings they tend to be more bestial while dragons are highly intelligent (even the dumbest are usually average human intelligent while wyverns are mindless, wild animals).
I can honestly say without contradiction, that there will be hundreds of people going what Games workshop removed from the high street if it was purchased lock stock and two smoking barrels worth. Having been an independent retailer and had mixed results dealing with GW depending upon the success of the retailer, as it becomes more successful the more difficulties it encounters as it takes more of the GW localised market. This is what did actually happen in some very nasty ways, at first we welcomed onto the block, we chose the right area the right financial demographics etc etc. Then we actually started to take the food off the GW stores table and we were competing at the time with three of them within 9 miles. I have to say as a company GW would be sorely missed off of the high street, but I doubt also in the current climate even those with the resources to open independent retail gaming stores would shrink away from anything looking like a GW of old or new. I also think that Warrens five years of either turning it around or being bought out is off by at the very very least two possibly two and a half years.
In realistic terms there were worse sellers on the floor than GW as an independent retailer, the sure fire hit games that had a good following locally, I do not think we sold any FoW except one starter set. Our biggest seller kits and not the entry level build a spitfire with your dad kits.
If I had the finances ever in place again to go again. I would trade much more differently and carry much more toys especially the old baby wooden jigsaws.
Best show in ages so much so might go watch it again, might not be star wars but hey I absolutely love, big fan of Star Wars, but no I haven’t seen it yet might get next week mid week who knows might not.
Happy Sunday!
John you did a great job with the Dracolich. The only thing I would have done, is to intensify the contrast between the scales and the flesh underneath. May be it is much more noticeable in real than via video. I’m excited to see the project log.
I think Ben nailed it. Because Star Wars is such a big IP, there is no need for more factions to be a successful proper war-game. But in fact, it could be boring on a long terms perspective (for us hobbyists), not to have the opportunity to expand and explore a war-game universe due to other factions. To be able and try something different within a game, like you did with those Space Sharks, or like you could if you played lets say Khador for several years and now try Trollbloods for example, is a important factor for the success of a war-game I suppose.
It was something I had thought of too. But I wanted it to look like an “old” dracolitch. Maybe to the determent of the overall effect until you get a good close look at it.
The downside of two factions is there’s only three different games you can play: XY, YY, or XX. You’d have to build in a lot of variety to both X and Y to make that playable to the extent they effectively become just an umbrella for several different factions each. GW essentially did this with LotR:SBG where all armies were either ‘good’ or ‘evil’, but there were several distinctly playable armies under each umbrella. GW also had to expand on some of the armies over what was in the source material to make them playable on the tabletop. Throw in an emphasis on getting named characters onto the table and I think you’ve got a pretty good model of how to go about making a Star Wars wargame.
Well I´m quite a big fan of star wars. I read nearly all the books from the expanded universe. I´m not to happy that Disney announced the books invalid. There are great stories they could make another 20 movies from.
The argument to kill the books was, that the director should not suffer any restrictions.
Well, what Idid see in the cinema was:
-A start on a desert planet.
-looking for droids.
-Narrow escape in the Falcon.
-A bad guy in a funny hermet.
-A more bad guy that appears only as hologramm
– the base of the bad guys in a big roungthing with a megagun
-Someone that knows nothing about the force swings a lighsaber
– in the end a trench run and the big round thing blows up.
That´s more or less the same i have seen in Episode 4. The movie shows nothing new, besides LED´s on the ST-Blasters.
I forgot the cantina. You can´t have a SW movie without cantina.
I find it sad, that this movie is almost a copy of what is already there.
I liked the fighter scenes, but I find them a bit short.
So, over all I´m quite disappointed and unfortunatly all my fears about that movie came true.
Agreed on just about all counts oranje, just think of the factions they could have had in X-wing/Armada if they hadn’t ditched the EU!
Not all the books were good by any means but there was a massive amount of fluff and despite Disney consigning this to the scrap heap they have still kept some things from them .. Han and Leia’s son turning dark, although he has had his name changed from Jacen to Ben, Luke’s son from the books! I for one won’t be surprised if it turns out Rey is Luke’s daughter and that Ren killed her mother!
Or that Rey is not related to any of the old characters but was in fact a youngling at the academy rescued by and placed somewhere safe by Luke.who then withdrew from civilisation. The force then guided Rey to Luke’s lightsaber and ultimately to Luke. Touching the Lightsaber triggered a flashbacks that in turn revealed hidden or repressed memories of her training at the academy. That’s how she learned force skills so quickly and how she seemed to have some lightsaber training. It’s also a better explanation than keeping it in the family.
missed out farther and daughter get together at the end scene
Great show thanks.
I’d love a star wars wargame. I am still kicking myself that I didn’t stock up on the fantastic Knight Models range when they had them.
I have a lot of thoughts on Episode VII, The Force Awakens. too many to post here so I’ve started a thread off in the Back Stage forum.
http://www.beastsofwar.com/groups/backstage-green-room/forum/topic/star-wars-the-force-awakens-contains-spoilers/
In summary: I’ve seen episode VII before, it’s called episode IV. I rate the film 6/10
Hi Warren sorry but I have 2 Games near me there doing fine unlike hmv witch yes has gone under I mean it granted it is a small sample size but still I think it is important to be accurate hope you have a great day
Game unfortunately is only a shadow of what it once was 🙂 2 bouts of administration doestake its toll.
In the spirit of if being important to be accurate, @stickmanne, I have two HMVs near me 🙂
*@stickmanme
Sure. It was a playful jab at the importance of being accurate :). The HMV in the city centre moved to a cheaper location recently. As did both GW’s in the same locations as those two HMVs.
Also a shadow of its former self 🙂
Like blockbuster, xtravision, that other video game store, laser electrical etc
They can shuffle in and out of administration but they get weaker and smaller every time (and considering their existence is based on bulk buying power this doesn’t help)
Retail needs to offer an experience and good hobby venues have the potential for this.
thanks for the reply and the corections i will keep that in mind in the future
Another great xlbs.
When it comes to Star Wars I still think the opportunity was missed to release a great tabletop game with episodes 1-3.
So many factions and races in those films.
I know they still exist and can still be produced but it felt right back then.
I’d def love a droid army or a wookie army with clone supports.
The many different vehicles that could be produced is amazing.
Let’s hope some company finally does it in a big way.
Although to be really successful in America it would probably have to be prepainted
Yup, episodes II and III were more focused on ground battles than episodes IV – VI and there was some really cool units and vehicles too.
Star Wars could have 6 factions.
1) CIS (battle droids etc)
2) Republic (clones, Jedi)
3) Rebels/Resistance (Luke, Han etc)
4) Empire (Stormtroopers, Darth Vader etc)
5) First Order (stormtroopers, Kylo Ren, and since they’re one of a few remnants of the Empire it can exist as a separate factions)
6) Scum and Villainy (Boba Fett).
I’d love a proper Star Wars wargame.
Happy sunday!
Have to say at the beginning of the film when the Stormtroopers arrived in the dropships, my brain was thinking Space Marines jumping out of Storm Eagles, so I could quite easily envisage it becoming a tabletop game.
As for the film itself, yeah a few too many in-jokes, most of them with Chewie, and it began to grate a bit.
@johnlyons – dragon looks great, but would love to see a bit of shading on the bones, just looks a bit too bright for me (just my opinion 🙂 )
Wow, another great show and if you keep it up this is going to be an awesome year on Beast of War. I particularly enjoyed the discussion around where the games industry is going. I love tabletop gaming but investing the time into the hobby that it requires is a real challenge for me and this is where the board, and to a lesser extent, card game industry has won me over. I can pick up a game like Descent or Star Wars Imperial Assault and in a very short period of time be up and gaming. It also helps that these games aren’t one on one but rather allow for a group game.
Ben seems huge on that screen, floating there in the background. He reminds me of Supreme Commander Snoke!
Best BoW Discussion EVER! More please!
Happy Sunday!
A very interesting one man discussion on Asmodee. I have learned a lot about the industry today. Thanks @warzan
I don’t think FFG is going to make a table top wargame for star was. The market just has not grown enough for table top wargames. If Imperial Assault had exploded like x-wing they would have.
IMHO Asmodee buying GW would be game changing for the industry as a whole.
FFG are already using the GW IP to make much better games than GW themselves and FFG have shown they can write balanced, competitive and fun games with X-Wing and Armada being standout examples. I’d love to see FFG take on the 40K and AOS rulsesets as the 40K rules in particular are very outdated in comparison to modern Wargames. I know lots of people who play GW games for the minis and lore but not one playes them for the quality of the rules.
If Asmodee were to acquire the GW design studio they could use them to improve the quality of the miniatures appearing in the many boardgames they produce. If Black Library and Forge World were included in the deal it would kick things up in the industry allot.
GW stores would probably be closed completely, they are a millstone around GW neck right now. Perhaps they could be turned back into general gaming stores as they once were but its doubtful. If they were somehow made into gaming shop’s/coffee shops they could be retained as there is a big market in the UK for these kind of stores but not every GW store would be suitable for such a conversion.
We live in the “interesting times” of tabletop gaming right now it seems
Happy Sunday, Wow really in depth look into a hobby. Thank you folks, do I even think that I can get a handle on it, hell no, but its a lot to think about. And now for some thing completely different, I was having a discussion with friends about size of mini’s if y’all could do a chart or some thing like that so we all can mix and match different company’s products , plus maybe how it all fits with models and trains.
a nice start to the year guys, the dragon looks good @johnlyons @dignity if your still going for black bases give them a brush of dark grey to make them look like lava blocks?
Hmm, developing a proper tabletop war game from episode VII: it starts with a massacre and then goes to 2 separate strafing runs by TIE and X-wing fighters, respectively. All which give a very satisfying play experience for one of the 2 sides involved. Now sarcasm off, we need a battle like Hoth or Endor to give inspiration for a battle game. The remainder of VII was an expansion of Imperial Assault but would have to be renamed since the Empire is kaput.
I’m glad people can make their own mids up without spoilers about the farce awakens.
still pritty poor film to me.
glad to see nothing GF9 is as bad as their dark elves they did for dnd
You know @siygess you are right there isn’t enough in TFA to make a war game out of you already have the X-WING game by FFG with the TFA ships. We have no new ships for scum that can come out of it because they never showed any of the aliens ships on Jakku or landed at Maz Kanata’s castle we only see the Falcon. They didn’t show the New Republic fleet before they blow it up so no new ships for Star Wars Armada. If they come out with 28mm First Order troopers you can just add them to your other storm troopers and clone troopers for the sci-fi game you are already playing. They didn’t give use anything to to create a narrative on to play Resistance vs. First Order all we saw the resistance troopers do is run around a airfield. No new models from this movie to make a stand alone war game out of it, you get a lot more out of the prequels worlds to play Separatist vs The Grand Army of the Republic with and MUCH better designs.
@brennon Breath easy I won’t kill you 🙂 Certainly not for tying to explain over 600 years of our history to @warzan in about 30 seconds. I will say Saxon is a pretty loose term which covers quite a few Germanic tribes that came along with Angles Jutes to these isles after the Romans left.
These days we generally refer to the subsequent integrated population as Anglo Saxons. The term Anglo Dane (another modern term) refers to the populace from King Canute up until the Norman invasion in 1066 as by this time the ruling classes including the King and his household guards were by now mostly of Danish descent.
Going back 180 years to Alfred who you mentioned was held up in the Somerset wetlands and burning cakes. The Viking army he was avoiding was by and large made up of Danes.
So what am I saying ? Well you could get picked up on referring to these models as Saxons your not wrong and your not right. Saxon is just a label and is generally used for the earlier invaders.
You could say Anglo Saxons the normal term for the populace from mid to late Dark ages. Once again just a label and when referring to the fyrd probably still holds true for these models but your Thanes have been replaced by Huscarles so we generally label them Anglo Danes just to differentiate.
Spot on though @warzan these models represent the Saxons /Anglo Danes……who fought under Harold Godwinson against the Normans (also of Norse descent). They also defeated a Norwegian army at Stamford bridge in Yorkshire a few weeks earlier which was led by the king of Norway Harald (Hardrada) Sigurdsson, who you mentioned on a weekender a few weeks ago. Just to mix it up a bit further the Norwegian army also contained one of Harold Godwinson brothers, Tostig.
Is it a case of absence makes the heart grow fonder or were these two of the best weekenders ?
Happy Sunday!
Great show as usual, lots of interesting topics today. The board games vs miniatures tabletop games discussion I found particularly interesting. For me at least it comes down to two things, time and number of players.
For me there are few things that are more satisfying than standing around the table with my range ruler in my belt observing my carefully and lovingly put together and painted army charging across a battlefield built with my own two hands. Win or lose I always have a great time. It’s not just the battle itself but the countless hours spent painting, theory crafted the army list, building the terrain and making up a narrative for the upcoming battle. However I am guy in the early 30s and suddenly there are all these commitments that keep coming in the way. I can no longer primarily focus on my hobby. It is harder and harder to fit these huge battles into me and my friend’s schedules. Not to mention keeping up with new codex’s, editions of the rules and new units, which of course is a major part of the hobby as well. So when I finally get the time for some social hobbying, I want to spend it with more people than a 2player wargame permits. A two player game of 40k or flames of war, as great as it is, have more often than not been traded with board game evenings with 4-6 guys. Throwing down at 300 page rulebook, a couple of army books and a shopping list (totaling close to a decent used care) just to get into the hobby do not seem to have a very high success rate in converting non gamers to my precious hobby. The promise of a few cold beers with the guys over a board game that I can teach them over the course of the evening however is much more plausible.
So for me the golden era of board games has made the transition from regular wargame evenings to more casual board gaming sessions less painful for me. With a wider selection of quality board games I can get my hobby fix and still have time to work, eat, maintain my relationship status etc..
However, let there be no doubt that I am a wargamer at heart and any chance I get my Dark Angels, Wehrmacht and sometimes even my old trusty Bretonnians will march to war across the fields of glory that is the tabletop.
Really enjoyed the industry chat today guys. Can I also say it is great to have you back but a also how much I enjoyed the 40k stuff which kept me engaged over Christmas and new Year.i am also a recent returnee to the 40k universe.
And finally … More battle reports please. Loved the 40k battle report, although I watched the full video rather than track it through the thread. More please, including some KOWand Team Yankee …. Thanks again, my favourite gaming site.
Great show gents. i agree with ben just look at kingdom death monster,
what more could u want, a amazing game all in one box
keep up the great work gents
Rogue One is actually before ep IV in the timeline. It’s gonna show us all those Bothans dying. 😉
And let me just say that the argument that “ep 7 is just ep 4 all over again” is built on a very superficial understanding of the plot.
Loved the new movie, totally awesome. I feel atleast personally that xwing ticks the boxes for me, I may get into armada but not anything else starwars. However I think a wargame would be a winner aslong as the rules were simple enough for non-gamers/board gamers. I think Fliers might be a bit clunky unless it is 15mm or smaller though.
If there was a Star Wars wargame I think 20mm would be the right scale as anything larger and it’s going to be a skirmish game only and any smaller I think you’d lose some of the Star Wars feel. Also any wargame will almost certainly be in the classic era of 4, 5 and 6, I don’t think you’d see a wargame for the new films until 8 and 9 were out. The Clone Wars period also has some scope for a wargame, and also provides the extra factions you talked about.
A Star wars tabletop would be awesome, but i also still waiting for a Game of Thrones tabletop 😉
I have to say that if some one gets Games Workshop they might use the Brick and mortar stores to show off/place to play the products. Basically like an independent store with a ‘limited’ selection of stuff.