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Mantic’s Kings Of War Kickstarter Stretch Goals Summon Abyssals!
November 14, 2014 by dracs
Mantic's Kickstarter campaign for the Kings of War 2nd Edition hardback rulebook is now live as of Friday 14th November at 1.30pm!
Update: The Kickstarter is now live so let's have a look at what's on offer as well as stretch goals...
These are the two key starting points for pledgers that will net them the new rules as well as some armies to play around with on the tabletop as well. The game is ALREADY FUNDED so that was bloody quick and stretch goals are clearly coming very soon.
Stretch goal wise the $50,000 target which has already been smashed unlocks an Army Builder for the game as well as a Chess Clock App for when you're playing in those timed scenarios for tournament play. As well as that Abyssals have entered the fray with some rather neat looking renders...
The Forces of the Abyss were very popular in Dungeon Saga and will be getting hard plastic miniatures such as those that were found in Deadzone. The Forces of the Abyss will apparently form the primary driving force of their upcoming worldwide campaign, an announcement which is exciting in itself.
Do you plan to help fund the Kings of War 2nd edition rulebook?
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Yes.
“Do you plan…?”
Of course, YES! Kings of War was what started me on Kickstarter. I’ve been with Mantic on every kickstarter except 2 and they never disappoint.
Another Kickstarter from Mantic? We’ve already had a Kings of War Kickstarter. It seems as though Mantic are incapable of releasing anything without having a Kickstarter. This was totally understandable in the begining but they have had some of the most successful Kickstarters the UK has seen. Is it still neccessary for them to go down the KS route for a second edition of an established game? From looking at some of their last projects the vast majority of the work seems to have been done and KS appears to have been ised as a glorified pre-ordering system.
I don’t understand why that would matter though chap. The alternative would be normal regular releases I guess with pre-order. As you say they have had great success on KS, and the extra goodies for backers are what I see as fab perks, and the influx of cash for the company is going to mean more new stuff coming from a company that make really good quite diverse games. Exciting times!
Yes it is necessary. The first KoW KS was almost three years after the release of the first KoW mini. They had six full army releases and a set of rules by then. The first four armies were in hard plastic, then the funds would no longer sustain new tooling so the last two were metal conversion bits to be used with existing plastics. KoW KS1 allowed them to introduce two full new armies, one in hard plastic and one in soft plastic (the infamous restic), three full books, and additional plastic troops for the existing armies. It was a lot of tooling that ran to a cost far beyond what they could have done on their own. By Ronnie’s estimate they were able to fund tooling that would have taken around five years to do without KS. Meaning we’d still only be halfway there now.
Don’t make the mistake of thinking that now they’ve done that campaign and several other KS campaigns, they now have the internal finance to do it again themselves. They don’t. The money they raise on these campaigns goes towards making the product, fulfilling the pledges, and putting the first run of stock into the stores. It undoubtedly places them in a much healthier position than they were in 2012, but not so that they can just churn out the tooling for a load of new plastics. They still need to raise funds, and KS is the best way to do it. It gets them the money they need to grow the product line, and it puts that product into the hands of a growing community both at a reduced price and from day one.
Yes they’re using it as a pre-order/funding mechanism.
Interesting question would be (considering our discussion about Cyntopia)… what would they do if they’d only achieved £25,001 ?
The only new product they committed to was a new rulebook. The most they would need to produce if the total reached $25,001 would be 500 hardback rulebooks and 500 smaller softback books that just contained the core rules. They didn’t commit to any new minis until $85,000 and that was just two new sculpts. So to answer your question, they’d have printed up the rulebooks, shipped them, and still had enough left over for a large print run for retail.
Why is ” restic” infamous !? I have loads of their restic miniatures and I love them very much 😮
I’ve got a load of soft plastic minis too, from Mantic and other companies and have had few problems with them. The term has still managed to become a byword for expressing dislike over the material for many people. Often when they aren’t even talking about “restic” minis from Mantic, just soft plastic minis in particular. Check the comments on the Fallen Frontiers news item from earlier this week for a good example. Hence the term has become infamous.
The metal molds to make plastic mini’s are expensive. Vastly more expensive than the molds for metal or resin mini’s. With a KS they can get the money to produce multiple molds at once and release a whole new army at one time, instead of over many months.
I supported their dungeon saga kickstarter and thought it was good because they were redoing a system that needed massize overhuals. But I agree with you gamerjohn and have had similiar thoughts. Mantic can’t seem to do anything without a kickstarter to fund it, which is odd because newer smaller companies like hawk wargames have produced great games like dropzone commander without a kickstarter. If mantic wants to be a viable alternative to GW then in my opinion they neex to cut the kickstarter umbilical cord.
I’ll have to see. Nothing on Mantic, but I’m just looking at the huge piles of stuff I’ve gotten from KS projects that I have barely taken out of the boxes and many more are still on the way…
I might go for it if they have a book only level… I already have scads of fantasy minis and for me the point of KoW is being able to play with the stuff I already have (since it’s no good for WFB).
I think the book only pledge level is almost the point of this Kickstarter. They’ve also said they’re happy to support $1 pledges to be upped to something better after Christmas when the pledge manager comes out.
I’m probably in for the book and possibly a character or two if there’s any I like the look of/need.
This is the one I have been waiting for. I am always happy to support Mantic.
The best thing about Mantic Kickstarters is the ride. Anyone complaining about them hasn’t participated in the comments or had the thrill of seeing how far mantic can push the stretch goals. Always a great te and the product is almost secondary.
Well a pretty good start. it funded slower than Dungeon Saga (their last go at a “mini” Kickstarter that ended up being their second best ever). and I think that one got over 100K in the first hour.
All to be expected though, given the season around the corner. Also not much to pledge for right now. The armies are good value but no new stuff in ’em. As the Abyssals fund we’ll have to see if the average pledge starts to rise.
I’m on a rulebook right now, and see no reason to up yet…
I miss Ronie’s voice in the KS video. It gave a more personal touch.
I know what you mean.
This deep voiced voice artist seems obsessed with doing the opposite of the Australian tendency to end a statement on a higher note (making it sound like a question) by ending every statement with as low a note as possible to get the most resonance out of his voice.
As a deep(er) voiced speaker myself I must try using this technique…
And for their 3rd update they add the very character I wanted, pledge climbing already this doesn’t bode well for my bank balance…
Honestly not a fan of this. It’s pretty obvious that this is just a way for them to sell their already available minis for the excuse of a new rulebook. A new rulebook doesn’t exactly warrant a kickstarter (you know, the whole point of which is getting new projects and the like off the ground). It just feels like a blatant misuse of the site.
Now if they were using the kickstarter to fund a bunch of new molds for models, or a new faction, or anything like that it would be completely valid and I’d be happy to throw in with it.
But this is just “hey guys we’re writing our new rules edition so wanna preorder a bunch of stuff from us? Oh yeah, and we’re using Kickstarter instead of our own website. Hope it doesn’t negatively impact projects that have a valid reason to use kickstarter like Heavy Gear or Fallen Frontiers lol~”
This is a piecemeal campaign which is being built from the ground up. It’ll start with the rulebook and go up from there. Where it ends just depends on where the funding will take it. Its ceiling is lower than the big box games (hence it getting the end-of-year slot), but it should still bring in a decent six-figure sum and by the end there’ll be a fair few new minis added to the line. They just can’t start out with that as the goal the funding total would have to be set too high to be viable. As it isn’t a big box game then the rulebook serves the same function as the basic box does for DZ, MA, and DB.
And the point of KS isn’t to get new projects off the ground. It’s one of the things KS does, but not the only one. It’s for any creative project at any stage of completion up to and including pre-production. It doesn’t have to be a new product line, nor does it have to be a new company. KS themselves are very clear about this. Other people seem to want to tell them what their site is for.
Maybe I should have worded that better. It’s not a storefront for companies to sell preorders through, it’s a launchpad for new products and projects. You’re right, it is perfectly legal for them to use it to fund their new rulebook.
But that doesn’t make it a good use of the kickstarter platform or anything more than a cashgrab.
Maybe I wasn’t clear either lol. The book is not the be-all and end-all of the project. It’s the jumping off point for the expansion of the product line. Mantic can’t make the goal of the project to fund tooling for a new army because it would make the funding total impractical and the campaign inflexible. Instead it’s built up and it’ll go wherever the final total is able to take it. It’s already funded the first new minis and there’ll be a lot more by the end. Hence, new product.
Even if the campaign only managed to get 500 backers pledging $50 each for the rulebook pledge level, meaning the only thing produced by the project was said rulebook, then that is still a new product funded by (and proportionate to) the amount raised. I don’t understand by what definition that would be a cashgrab.
Basically it seems that they’re using kickstarter to incentivise buying their already available minis. I’m guessing you can understand how that’d be bad form right?
Plus, the first stretch goal of any substance starts at $60k above their funding goal which is rather excessive. The kickstarter isn’t ‘bad’, but it’s not ‘good’ either. It’s sort of in a grey area of ‘I’m not sure I like this?’, especially with the main selling point being their already available plastic models. Basically that’s the part that irks me. It’d be like PP or GW starting a kickstarter for the next rules edition and having the buy in packs mostly about their available minis (pledge 150$ and get a space marine battle box with your rulebook! Yay! Oh, and if we make about quadruple our goal we’ll make a new metal/finecast commander model to throw on top.).
I’m hoping thinking about this from that perspective helps you see where I’m coming from.
When your previous comment said that it wasn’t a storefront to sell pre-orders through, that implied you were talking about product that had not yet been created, rather than pre-existing product. I still see no definition of “cashgrab” that would apply. Mantic are offering pre-existing product at a significant discount to the usual rrp, and any funds that are raised are being used to grow the KoW line. Nor is using pre-existing product to increase the funding total raised something which KS doesn’t allow. They do allow it, and hence I do not understand how that’d be bad form.
What you are doing is imposing your own definition of how KS should be used and then judging KoW2 as falling short of that. By KS’ own definition, KoW2 is exactly the type of project the site is for, and is being ran exactly as they intend a campaign to be ran. Not “technically okay”, but actually what the site is for.
Finally, the $60,000 difference between the funding total and the first stretch goal with minis. Of that, $15,000 of that will be for giving everyone who has selected one of the pledge levels a free set of acrylic tokens. At the time of typing that runs to 1000 pledgers. By the time the final person submits their pledge manager that total is likely to be much higher. So the $15k would seem a very reasonable amount. $20,000 covers the the costs of creating the two minis. Assuming both are tooled in soft-plastic then is also reasonable. If they are metal then it really depends on how many wind up being cast. That leaves $25,000 on the two apps. I would imagine the army builder app would be the more expensive of the two, but without access to the actual cost of these it’d be wild speculation to guess at their cost to Mantic.
You realise Kickstarter will take a 10% (at least) cut of all the money Mantic make right …
Have the rules changed because I thought Kickstarter didn’t allow the selling of figures that were already availiable..?
People on the HGB forum are asking the same thing, some backers want to get already available metals as add-ons. If it still is a rule, it begs the question of why Mantic gets a free pass.
The guidelines on resale under prohibited items say that items are prohibited if they have not been produced or designed by the project, or by one of its creators. That seems to be saying that as long as the pre-existing product is the creation of at least one of the people involved in the project then it can be offered as a reward.
It’s a new rulebook and the armis are essentially add-on upgrades to that. I’m sure that gets them a pass from Kickstarter. After all they -want- people to use their platform, so as long as there’s at least a fig leaf to cover any possible perceived infraction I expect Kickstarter are fine.
Morat,
The book is new and they’ve already gotten to creating new hard plastic troops. The addons are just good value for those wanting to get in or adding to an existing force. Nothing wrong with that.
I’m getting on board and have been supporting Mantic pre-kickstarter. They’re a great company and because they listen and keep their customers in mind and take feedback, they continue to improve.
The big thing for me is that they’re doing hard plastic troops again! Great news and it seems from the Deadzone stuff I’ve gotten (space zombies) their new hard plastic mix is good. Making sure there’s a book to gather all of the KoW universe, updating the already good rules and adding hard plastic troops for Abyssal and Nature armies is a wonderful KS goal. I’m in!
Very good points from both sides of view I agree that they should not be adding already released model ranges to a kickstarter, there initial Idea just to fund the book and a few extras was blatantly not there plan I have however gone halfs with a friend to fund the God of war pledge because they are creating abyssals and mentioned a possibility that forces of nature could be a stretch goal I am picking one of these armies and adding characters like the mage queen to expand my elf army. It’s a great cheap way to introduce new gamers to the hobby though.
The only issue I have is that the kickstarters are stopping people from buying into the systems. Our local flgs has lots of stock that doesn’t sell, because people in the kickstarter get so much.