Weekender: Do The Age Of Sigmar Judicators Hit The Mark?
August 1, 2015 by lloyd
Welcome to The Weekender where we're back talking about Age of Sigmar and more as the tide of new releases continues to roll over us from Games Workshop. We also have a competition winner to announce for Journey: Wrath of Demons!
Age Of Sigmar
We kick things off with a discussion about the new Stormcast Eternal Judicators. There has been a lot of hate about these models and a lot of love too. Oh and BoW Ben really seems to like the Stormcast Eternals!
With that in mind we walk about their aesthetic and even delve into some chat about archery in general, here are the videos Lloyd was referencing in the show...
- Lars Andersen: A New Level of Archery
- A Response to Lars Andersen: A New Level of Archery
- Lars Andersen: Questions, Answers and New Archery
What side do you come down on with this?
Painting The Starter Set
We'll also be talking about the painting tutorials by Duncan Rhodes of Games Workshop where he showed off how to paint the whole Starter Set (see links below).
- Liberators & Prosecutors
- Retributors & Ionus Cryptborn
- Vandus Hammerhand
- Blood Reavers & Bloodstoker
- Blood Warriors & Blood Secrator
- Khorgorath
- Korghos Khul - Lord of Khorne
It's generally considered that these are some of the best pieces of content they've put out in recent years so we talk about what we think of them.
Warlord Tanks
Warlord Games also have a new Panzer III out in plastic so with that rumbling across the tabletop we wishlist what we'd love to see next in terms of World War II armour.
Naturally Lloyd thinks Weird World War...
4Ground Ruins
Last but not least we discuss some more of the new terrain from 4Ground. The Ruins Of Daldorr is a fascinating set of new terrain pieces worth using in the likes of the new Frostgrave for example.
Free Laser Cutter Plans - Watch XLBS To Find Out More!
This week we have some free plans and instructions you can use with a laser cutter to build an Infinity Style Objective Room. They have been created by our Infinity maestro Killian and he will be on the XLBS show for a chat all about laser cutting and 3D printing if you want to find out more...
You will find The Weekender XLBS on the website tomorrow morning and you can try out Backstage to watch by following the link below.
Competition Winner
Keep an eye out through the show to see if you won the copy of Journey: Wrath of Demons. If you did don't forget to contact us HERE.
Join Backstage For The Weekender XLBS Tomorrow
Have a great day!
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Quite some adds here 🙂
All this talk of which side the arrow is on, but not the two pound arrowhead on the end.
I was thinking the same. Those arrows are putting my spearmen to shame. 🙂
Roll on the weekend and smile 🙂
Happy Weekend!
Getting my hobby fix whilst in Australia, thank you so much
I think the arrows are on that side because the shoulder plates are in the way and won’t allow the arrows to be on the other side.
I haven’t watched the show yet (sorry guys!) but @redben might be able to clarify this … Historically were there not groups who shot arrows on this side of the bow?
If it doesn’t decrease accuracy it certainly increases speed (I would imagine!)
More importantly (again book is back in the studio!) what does the fluff say about these guys, are these even bows and arrows in the conventional sense?
While they are painted like real arrows the background suggests they are pure energy – which is why I will be painting them like blue crackling bolts of lightning and not arrows.
Same for the Crossbows.
BoW Ben
Now that’s useful information. From the Sigmarite background I already imagined these bows to be more magical than physical, working similarly to the bow the archer in the old Dungeons and Dragons cartoon uses.
I am by no means an expert on this, but I believe it largely depends on how the arrow is held in the release hand. Certain releases, like the western three-fingered release, would pull the arrow to the right if it were placed on this side of the bow, which is why we usually put it on the other side. Other releases don’t and the arrow can go on either side. I believe horse archers from the steppe were equally comfortable firing from the left side (like a western archer) or the right side using a thumb-ring to keep the arrow straight against the bow. Again I am not an expert on this so happily bow to anyone with superior knowledge.
“…happily BOW to anyone…”
Pun intended? 😀
No, I realised it as soon as I pressed Submit but by then it was too late lol
Taking a closer look at the Judicator, the arrow seems to have some kind of metal hoop that the forefinger is placed in to draw it back. If I’m seeing it right, then that would be a much bigger problem for firing the arrow accurately and at any distance than holding it on the right side of the bow. The thumb should probably be up holding the arrow against the bow too. That said, and whilst I’m not a fan of ‘it’s just a mini’ and ‘it’s fantasy and not meant to be realistic’, in this case I think it applies.
Many styles of bows over history with all kinds of factors. Mostly traditions!
As for the ‘wobbly flight’ they speak of, the fletchings (feathery bits at the back)are usually arranged into three aligned with the arrow nock (the notch at the non-pointy end). If you present it to the string correctly the two of them go past the bow with minimum deflection. Rotate the arrow 180 degrees and one passes perpendicular to the bow usually giving it a late bump that then vibrates down the shaft in flight.
The bow itself does sometimes have ‘nocks’, but these are where the string ends are tied/bound. With modern bows the arrow may sit on a ‘rest’ or ‘shelf’ rather than part of the (usually gloved) hand.
Your right the method of release will dictate which side of the bow you place the arrow. Placing the arrow on this side of the bow would indicate a thumb release. If he were shooting off the fingers then you would need to put the arrow on the other side of the bow.
Historically, yes lots of cultures did this, and speed was a significant part of it since it significantly reduces the number of actions you need to take to knock,draw and release an arrow.
Lars Andersen has become quite famous in archery circles for his speed and accuracy with the technique.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEG-ly9tQGk
Famous or ‘infamous’?… Anna Maltese has pwned him (whatever that means)
https://youtu.be/rDbqz_07dW4
I shot bow for a lot of years, and don’t know how you could sight down the shaft with the arrow resting on the other (right) side… but I guess it’s what you’re used to. Longbows, as far as I know, have always been placed on the same side as the hand holding the bow (generally the left). But the mounted warrior presents a different problem. With the bow in the left hand, the mounted archer would need to draw an arrow with his right, and the most efficient way to load one quickly would be to nock it on the right side of the bow. To put it to the left would risk it becoming entangled in the bow and string.
Historical archers would rarely have the arrow on the inside, it was simply too slow. Modern competitive archers do so because they have an infinite amount of time to make a shot and the extra time afforded to them is useful. Here’s a video that explains it all https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEG-ly9tQGk
It’s the WEEKEND!
Sigmarines are definitely flesh and blood. In the novel some of them get wounded and even killed and there is lots of bleeding. My take on them is they are sort of reincarnated heroes from the previous age given new bodies. Sort of like the warriors of Valhalla in Norse myth, the ones taken by the Valkyrie when they die to live in Odin’s hall and fight at Ragnarok. I don’t recall specifically but I think when they die their souls go back to Sigmar’s realm to be reborn.
You are right – they are the souls of heroes about to die drawn to Azyrheim by Sigmar and then encased in their armour by the smiths, taught to do so by Grungni the Dwarfen God.
When they die their souls are sent back to be reforged into armour again. It would be interesting to see some of them without their masks on – do they mention what they look like underneath in the book @koraski?
Also I think Ionus Cryptborn might have been someone VERY important in the old world from what his fluff suggests.
Who is Ionus Cryptborn?
The Chaplain. Sigmarine with the skull mask and the coffin standard.
I have only read the novel so far, not the big hard cover book yet. I won’t spoil any story elements but I can say that the Sigmarites have memories of their previous lives and they have physical bodies. I don’t recall any indications or hints of what they look like under the armor. I get the impression the transformation they undergo is like a magical version of the Space Marine creation process. The new being is based on the original human but isn’t quite the same person anymore.
Chaos remembers too, and they’ve been sitting around bored for thousands of years waiting for a few good skulls to smash 😉
Link to the plans is broken they’re here: http://www.beastsofwar.com/downloads/plans/Free-Infinity-Style-Objective-Room.zip
Good spot, links fixed 🙂
FYI Hover Stug…
http://www.beastsofwar.com/dreamforge-games/dreamforge-show-heavy-troopers-space-stugs/
I have to say I love Duncan and GW’s videos for painting. Been watching them for a long time and taken on board a lot of good techniques.
The biggest thing I like is that he shows you how to do a bit and then moves on, meaning I pause the video and then let it roll again.
On the flip side I can’t stand Romain’s videos (sorry), mainly for the fact that it’s so in depth it’s not needed. Watching him shake a paint pot for 5 minutes is not needed or exciting. Then the added fact that one miniature tutorial takes hours and about 5 videos spaced over many, many weeks.
I have to agree with the painting videos. Duncan does a marvelous job. Easy to follow, very easy to understand and delivers a good result.
For more advanced painting i prefer Painting Buddha or Jen Hayleys videos.
Good morning y’all. What a day, sun is shining, off to music festival, great days start with a great breakfast. So I gigantic bowl of The Weekender is just what I need.
Regardless of the side the arrow’s on, they’re bloody ridiculous! Holding up those massive shoulder pads, their arms would be too knackered to fire more than three times.
Not a problem if you’re an immortal demigod. 🙂
Ah the immortal demigod excuse. Typical GW 😉
Deus ex machina. 😉
I have used humbrol gold spray paint before for my son’s sanquinary guard. The colour looks a bit flat straight out of the can but once you give it a brown wash (I used gryphone sepia) the colour comes alive. If I were to do the sigmarites then I would do the same again and maybe do a second darker wash in the areas where more shadow is needed and a quick edge style highlight on the more prominent pieces of armour, pectorals, shoulder and knee guards.
It would get an army on the table quickly and it would look good too.
Massive apologies for the number of spelling errors in the building instructions, I ran these out quickly on Thursday and didn’t get time to proofread.
Watch the XLBS tomorrow to see what happens when you don’t check your stuff fully before you start cutting designs, its tragic.
Here’s a photo of Duncan dressed for a night out….
That terrain is simply fantastic.
Agreed, with that style they are ‘timeless’ although I need to check the price!
Warlord Panzer III – makes J (late), L, M or N so these can be used for the period 1942 onwards – not all o them appeared at the same time and just to add to the confusion there were 2 versions of the J of which those with the L60 50mm gun were redesignated as L models. You can look all this up online.
Very nice wee kit.
Panzer II Ausf L “Luchs” – Late mid-war and late war only folks – they only started building these in September 1943.
So you can add the PzKpfw III E to the list of stuff that would be nice in plastic, as well as the early PzKpfw II C or even the PzKpfw I (now there is a little cute tank)
The PzKpfw II, alway remind me of Lt. Gruber in ‘allo ‘allo, and “his little tank”
PzKpfw III L is very nice. These “Mark III Specials” with the longer 60 caliber gun probably made their biggest impact in North Africa, where they had lots of fun at the expense of poor Crusaders IIs with the 2-pounder (40mm) gun.
Eh . . . except the “N” (before someone corrects me). 🙂 I think the N had the short-barreled L-24 75mm? (same as the early Mark IVs).
Yes @oriskany from what I’ve read the “N” had the short 75mm L24 gun.
Sorry John as has already been mentioned by @dorthonion the panzer II Luchs was mainly a late war recon tank as it only went into production in late 43.
I used to do archery with a traditional longbow.
The only practical way to hold the arrow is on the left side of the bow (if you are holding the bow in the left hand). The reason being, the arrow rests in the angle between your knuckle and the bow. If the arrow was on the right side then you’d have to unnaturally twist your bow to the left to stop the arrow from simply dropping to the ground.
Basically, it’s convenient. If you’ve got the arrow nock locked into the string and the arrow itself resting on the left hand side of the bow, above your knuckle, you can just chillax. Do what you want, it’s very unlikely that you’re gonna twist the bow all the way to the left and let the arrow fall off.
It’s one of those things where if you get your hands on a bow it becomes very very obvious that having the arrow on the left side of the bow then it makes a lot of sense.
Those adjudicators for example, would lose their arrow the second they tilted their bow to the right. They’d have to hold the bow perfectly straight or worse, tilting to the left like a crazy man.
But who cares? It’s a mini lol. Plus it is Warhammer so it could be magic.They still look cool 🙂
Another thing worth noting with archery is that Hollywood has a lot to answer for. Legolas etc have made people think archers are all about fancy trick shots, sniping and the like. When in reality they just stood in huge lines and fired arrows en masse to obliterate masses squishy dudes. Obviously there will be exceptions in history but still…
Again, these are just games though so I’m not saying there should be no Legolas types!
For a traditional longbow then yes, left side is how you would fire it. There are other types of bows and other types of archery for which that doesn’t apply and these types are arguably more common than the method of firing and tactics which you describe. That said, the Judicators look a lot more like a western longbowman than a Mongolian horse archer or a samurai.
Clockwork Goblin Minis for Lloyd and his weird war, they are working with Warlord for a rules set that was mention at Saluate.
http://www.clockworkgoblinminis.co.uk/ourshop/prod_3568913-Soviet-Pulse-Turret-28mm.html
http://www.clockworkgoblinminis.co.uk/ourshop/prod_3705723-German-Spinne-Light-Mechpanzer28mm.html
and here are the rules
http://www.clockworkgoblinminis.co.uk/downloads.html
There are 4 marksmanship principles.
1: THE WEAPON MUST POINT NATURALLY AT THE TARGET.
2: THE POSITION AND HOLD MUST BE STRONG ENOUGH TO SUPPORT THE WEAPON.
3: SIGHT ALIGNMENT AND SIGHT PICTURE MUST BE CORRECT.
4: SHOT MUST BE RELEASED AND FOLLOWED THROUGH WITHOUT ANY UNDUE DISTURBANCE TO THE POSITION.
The preparation of position is all about 1-3. And its a good base position that vets accuracy. Its clearly good accuracy that gets a higher chancing of hit and would. If the arrow was one the right then your accuracy would less.
For Justin; it’s the reason why there are machine gun teams and why tripods were used and still used today on medium and heavy machine guns today, as well as grenade machine guns.
Just because Justin love war lol
I don’t know where or why the rumour started, but word from GW is that the AoS terrain is not limited edition. It’s already been brought up here;
http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/a-notice-about-realmgates-gw-responds.html
I share Lloyd’s thoughts about the sigmarites, I’ve said it on a couple of the news items about them. Too similar for me.
I did buy the boxed game (for painting fun, more than 40 minis for £55 or so is not to be missed), whilst I think they are well produced, the sigmar guys are not my cup of tea. The chaos ones though (the big thing aside) are very very good. Probably the best chaos minis GW have ever produced.
Yes, let’s see the chaos dudes get so love.
Duncan does state in the GW videos that after the base, shade and first layer you can leave it like that if you like as it looks good. Then he carries on to give you talk about the second highlight,,, further shade washes etc.
I have the Frostgrave Terrain already, it is fantastic. I’ve cover mine with some snow and doing a Frostgrave board. Really happy with how it looks and can’t wait for them to release more for this range.
@brennon well done on the painting mate
The Sigmar bowmen just do look a bit wrong. I think it’s the mix of heavy armour and a bow. The crossbow looks much funkier and “right”
I remember when Duncan and Chris Peach ran the Derby store, and. I have to say they were two of nicest guys I’ve met who work for GW. Plus they use run some really cool events in the store..
I’m not a big fan of the sigmarines, but I am going to paint up the freebie, just not sure what colour scheme to use
Heavily armoured bowmen just look a bit odd and don’t really make sense to me. As they have to be entombed in armour it would have been great to see different armour. Maybe the dwarven smithy only had the one armour mould 😉 Weirder than the arrow/bow side thing is how they have their heavily armoured finger in a tiny hole in the end of the arrow …so how do they take their finger out to release it?
Great middle segment on the show, guys. Definitely interested in hearing how @dignity and @johnlyons progress in early war. PzKpfw-IIIDs, PzKpfw-IVBs, PzKpfw-38(t)s for the Germans, even lots of PzKpfw-I and IIs.
The French get the Char B1 and B2, the great Souma S-35, and (sadly) lots of R-35s and H-39s.
The British get, well . . . sorry. 🙂 You’ve got the Matilda II is small numbers (they don’t really get famous until the Desert War), but WISE CHOICE with the French, Justin, at least if you’re interested in tanks (British infantry and artillery were generally superior to French equivalents in 39-40).
Not sure how Bolt Action will handle the rules for French tanks, though. They have great guns and armor, and LOOK very formidable at first glance, but also suffered from some horrible design flaws. Most tanks have three-man turrets (commander, gunner, loader), these tanks usually had ONE-man turret. So the same guy had to do three jobs. Also, most had no radios, so couldn’t communicate and had to use signal flags a FOURTH job for the luckless commander). These flaws made French tank UNITS much less agile and effective than French tanks INDIVIDUALLY, and panzers were able to drive around them for flank and rear shots. Hopefully Bolt Action will have rules that reflect these drawbacks, otherwise John’s German Pz II, III, IVD, and 38-ts will frankly have no chance. 🙁
John, just don’t let Justin take all Char Bs! They were pretty rare and never deployed in large units. The vast majority of French armor in 1940 were Renault-35s, Hotchkiss-39s and the like. 🙂
The PzKpfw-II was actually very very common in early war. The “Luchs” (Lynx) variant came out later (easily identified by the interleaved wheels, the original Mark IIs did not have that). But John is right, that’s a late war variant and not very many were made (recon, scouting, etc).
Undeniably cute, of course. Can’t argue with that. 🙂
Me too – I’ve been building up small collections of various nations’ armies for the early war period and am very keen to see John and Justin explore it further.
I’ve more or less resigned myself to not having any of the early war tanks made in plastic, sadly.
Using the army builder I made a 1000 Point German list and managed to get 1 Panzer IV D and a 88 in there with 2 inf squads – so Tanks will not be I large numbers (nor will any thing else be large numbers)
24 minis, 1 Motorcycle, 1 tank, and one piece of artillery – I may just have to build that list …
Well really enjoyed this show covered just about everything a little of historical, fantasy, plus the list of tanks in plastic lists. We rated it as a better than good for the show.
Concerning Bolt Action section, and maybe John can help me out with this: Is it me or is the scale between the tanks and infantry off in Bolt Action & Flames of War? When I look at real historical images the tanks look a lot bigger. Why wouldn’t the miniature companies do them exactly to scale?
Generally Infantry been made larger to be able to see them better – a gameing mini is “just” an abstract showing the model – others can explain this better than I
I like the Stormcast faction but I do agree that the Archers could of been a little more different. I like the idea of smaller shoulder pads and tabbards that was suggested by John. Personally I plan to paint mine with an elemental fire scheme with glowing eyes – but I need to finish my tomb kings serpent/sepulchral force first.
SSU’s IS-48? IS-5?
More kindling for the arrow debate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEG-ly9tQGk
Linked on the first page, and debunked.
Good show guys, but I must admit I had to fast forward to the end of Age of Sigmar after a while. I’m interested to wonder whether this game would have the same level of community interest if it wasn’t, made by GW?
The game is pretty beer and pretzels and the models are very marmite (which kind of makes it a bag og twiglets, but that’s by-the-bye!)
I’m much more interested to see stuff for games with engaging gameplay, fluff and such. Just because GW is ubiquitous shouldn’t
, at least in my opinion, guarantee it airtime.
No it may not but nor would it have had an instant following like it have had, like it or not made for GW.
Also it would not have had as many instant detractors – I my self is not sold on the game but it is the colossus that threw a big boulder into our little pond so it will make a big splash
Gw is still the king, so ofc their games should get airtime, whether you like it or not.
Shame you fast forwarded. I found the talk about archery really interesting. However I’m a crossbowman myself. 😎
You can never, ever make a game where all the minis/factions appeal to everyone. It is impossible. The minis are technically amazing and are far ahead of any competiotion on that area.
As for the rules, yes it is a beer and pretz game, but really fun. And it has surprising depth.
As always things come down to personal preference but looking purely at plastic kits I think Wyrd have GW beaten hands down right now.
GW still do the best customisable kits though.
I got a little excited about the new Warhammer figures. Then saw the price in NZ dollars. Even allowing for currency, it’s almost twice the cost of the UK. And people in the UK are wincing?
I do wish they would relax the price in non-UK/US places. That price model makes the hobby real expensive here. And a reason why other systems can be quite attractive.
Duncans tutorials are excellent, makes the seemingly impossible, possible. Especially for pants painters as myself. Yes you have to mortgage your house to by the paints. But it must be better than Johnny aged 5 painting.
you need this for your tesla tanks….. http://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2015/07/11/the_kremlin_hints_at_reviving_cold_war_laser_tanks_108208.html
Happy Saturday! I’m with Lloyd on the bowmen, I think they missed the opportunity to change it up a bit but, i still like them.
Took an archery class in college some twenty years ago, we learned to shoot from the right but, I’ve seen people shoot from the left too.
Not sure if Lloyd and the crew were aware but Dusty Rhodes passed away just a few weeks ago. It was nice to see him remembered fondly.
Was about to post the same thing.
My problems with the bowmen is the lack of fletching on the harpoon (too big for an arrow) they’re shooting. It almost looks as if they have a ring or hook on the end of the projectile and their forefinger hooked into it. Yet, didn’t I read somewhere about lightning striking their foes? So, that means these are like Zeus’ lightning bolts that change from solid to blasts of energy.
If you guys all play World of Tanks, is there any scope in a BOW clan?
I play on Xbox, John on pc so it’s falling apart already lol 🙂
I’m actually assembling Judicators as I watch this. I think they are pretty good, but could do with something more distinctive than just a different helmet decoration to call them out. I would think being missile troops they would be lighter armored. I’m loving the Stormcast Eternals at the moment though, and the best models to my eye are the Paladins box set that just went on pre-order.
I’m so glad that Duncan Rhode was discussed. He has provided me so much inspiration since he started doing tutorials, and showing simple ways to get nice results. Even my wife, who is a great painter, did an competition winning Durthu inspired by Duncans tutorial.
As for wet palettes, I do use one for GW paints, except the metalics, I find they split too much and are too hard to apply evenly. A good tip my GW store manager showed me is thinning them with a dash of the medium, and the results are great.
Keep up the great work gang, I’m excited by all the projects you have going at the moment!
I haven’t touched a GW model in 5+ years. Bought me the AoS box purely based on the models and the colour schemes at it reminds of Arthur’s son in Excalibur.
Freaky as hell with the all gold armour and the death mask. Love it.
love the show guys was awesome, buildings look amazing, I would love to see a staghound AA, for Bolt Action vehicles in plastic for my British army.
I have never been into 40k it just never appealed to me when it first came out or even now, I find the figures to be too big and bulky and I don’t like the lore at all, but that’s just my humble opinion and for people that love the game good for you we are all different and like different things. But when I sat down and tried to play this new game sigmarine 40k fantasy mix up I could not believe how bad it is, all I can see is 40k staring up at me from the table top figures wise, and don’t get me started on the rules they are shockingly bad. But im sure there will be people out there that love it and to them I say good luck. I will be going back to play 8th edition fantasy and waiting for the new KoW coming out, my kickstarter stuff should be arriving soon can’t wait. 🙂
I too am trying to figure out if there is anything under the armour of the sigmar items as I was hoping to do a few bareheaded, like the architects in Prometheus. Looking at the pictures in the book I noticed that under the deathmasks there are very human eyes and eyeslids and the suggestion of a face.
The arrow debate did make me chuckle, the realism of the rest of the universe is not questioned one bit no matter how unbelievable but place an arrow in the wrong way and its “that wouldn’t work in real life”.
Really enjoyed this show! I completely understand why every so often there are shows that are mostly dedicated to one thing but I really enjoyed the variety of topics discussed in this one 🙂
Great show guys.
I don’t like the new troops in AOS they remind me of the gods in the immortals film as others have mentioned. I like the new 4ground ruins especially as it can be combined to make large constructions. The GW paint videos by Duncan are very good different from Romains videos but just as informative giving more scope to painting figures.
I’m pretty sure the tiger markings on the Easy 8 date from Korea…I might avoid that particular artwork. During the Korean war there were a number of tiger and dragon markings painted on the fronts of the Easy 8’s and other tanks that fought against the NKPA and Chinese.
lol jammy dancing and spitting my tea out all over the bed