Everything was better back in the day! Even the clickbait!

[crazyredcoatParticipant 13642xp 2]

I’m not suggesting there is no cross-over, I’m suggesting that if you took the average age of people who are more into the complex games it will likely be higher that the average age of those more interested in the less complex ones.

[totsuzenheniParticipant 5651xp 1]

I’m not sure that that is the case @crazyredcoat, though i think it might be for miniature (skirmish and battle) games, but in any case i think that if younger generations were given the time and space that people had in the 1980s and 1990s then i think perhaps there’d be the same proportion that adopted the more complex games.

I think it’s also possible that there are people that don’t play any of the kind of games that we’re referring to but that would adopt those more complex games now if they knew about them (were they to have the same prominence they had in the 1980s and 1990s (in the UK)).

[crazyredcoatParticipant 13642xp 1]

I 100% agree that if people of my generation and younger had the opportunities that previous generations did then things would be different, very different indeed. I also agree that the more popular something is the more people will flock to it, as they have done in the current market. But neither of those possibilities is a reality with these older style of games. I could be wrong, I don’t have numbers (I’m not even sure the numbers exist, if I’m honest), but from my personal experience of about 16-17 years in the hobby, my generation and younger will tend towards the more ‘modern’ style of game, whereas whenever there is a conversation about ‘the good old days’ it is people older than me. The overlap of those two points is actually people my age. Those are just observations, though, and your own observations may be very different. At the end of the day, I don’t know. I just know that nostalgia is a hell of a drug.

[horus500 11505xp 0]

My FB feed has just brought up pictures and results from two different tournaments of Warhammer, not AoS, Warhammer! Both with great looking armies. The Triple Crown GT photos made me instantly want to start another Warhammer army.
Why is old stuff costing a fortune on eBay? That’s why!

[darkvoivod 7112xp 2]

Might have something to do with the old guard still identifying with the olf GW. Many are not a fan of how things are going now. When I entered the hobby, white dwarf still seemed very much a passion project. I’ve seen it change to a cold sterile advertisement booklet.

Old mini’s also have a certain charm the new, technically better mini’s can’t catch. I was quite excited when Warzon made a re-appearance a few years ago, but I couldn’t find myself like the new models. And they where outstanding sculpts. But the over the top, kinda cartoony vibe of the old stuff was gone.

I don’t agree with “better” rules, though. I haven’t played Gorkamorka and Necromunda in while, so I’m not sure how they’d hold up. I had a fantastic time with them then. I have a feeling Bloodbowl would still kinda hold up.
But we have some of the best rules out there these days, build on years of experience.
We also have some systems that, in my mind, barely qualify as a game. But some people (and those are very much often the older generations) just want to paint  mini’s, build a cool table and then chuck some dice with a beer and a friend. So there’s plenty of room for lighter systems I think.

I think it has plenty to do with people wanting to collect what they where into in the beginning. Finish old projects they have had for decades or finally own what they couldn’t buy with the allowance they had as a kid.
I’ve currently purchased some old (translated to dutch) Marvel comics. I could sell them all and start buying collected Trade Paperbacks to get the stories. But this is my collection. I started it when I was 8 and I’m still passionate about it. Many of the stories are simple and short. The artwork isn’t technically as amazing as some of the new stuff I read, but it’s still the era of comic books I enjoy most. Luckily: they’re not that expensive on second hand dutch market sites as people aren’t willing to pay much for them and they are for old mini’s.

[onlyonepinman 18053xp 0]

I don’t think everything was better back in the day, I think we just tend to look at our youth through rose tinted lenses.  Let’s face it EVERYTHING seems better when you aren’t constantly tired and aching all the time.  I don’t know, maybe the rules for GW games were better in the 90’s than now, I guess that depends on what you want out of a set of rules.

I still have a lot of GW related nostalgia around games and miniatures from the 90’s, I won’t lie.  I don’t even play GW games any more but I still have fond memories, my involvement with them is limited predominantly to paints and the occasional single (usually limited edition) miniature.  But almost everything that you could get in the 90’s has either been re-birthed by GW or you can get an equivalent (and usually, better) game from someone else (and usually, it’s Mantic 🙂 ).  But for me, all I have is nostalgia and it is only nostalgia, not a desire to own all of the games again.

• HeroQuest – don’t even bother with Hasbro, just buy Dungeon Saga (if you can) – it’s WAY better
• StarQuest/Space Crusade – As above, but replace “dungeon” with “star”
• Man O War – Armada anyone?
• Gorkamorka – I think this is the only game on the list I can’t find a good match for
• Warhammer Epic 40k – unless you are really stuck on 6mm space marines, there are a few 10mm sci fi options available in a range of styles.  There’s also Battletech.
• Bloodbowl – rereleased however numerous other alternatives exist (of have existed)
• Necromunda – rereleased (also with VASTLY superior plastic miniatures) and again, plenty of alternatives out there
• Mordheim – Frostgrave, Rangers of Shadowdeep, Kings of War Vanguard – the list goes on

If I am being honest, I actually like the fact that other companies have started filling the gaps left where GW cancelled games.  I love the sheer variety and diversity that I can get from looking across multiple companies rather than being tied exclusively to GW’s grim dark settings. I think I kind of just grew out of GW, I can’t even point to a single event or decision that has led me to this point; I don’t dislike them or hate them or wish them ill, it’s simply not for me anymore.  As I still own a couple of old GW games (and indeed many newer alternatives to them), I can say that there are FAR better options available now so I am in no hurry at all to spend hundreds of pounds buying an old game just to decorate a shelf.

[onlyonepinman 18053xp 1]

I guess it’s a bit like classic cars really.  Sure many of them look nice but ultimately modern cars just do the job better and it’s usually scarcity that drives the price up rather than quality.

[rastamannParticipant 2735xp 0]

Well, I like Mantic Games’ stuff, but as for any of the Epic iterations, there’s really no match for them, particularly Epic Armageddon. There simply is no sci fi game that comes close to it. I play Battletech and Alpha Strike and it’s nowhere near the same level of command. Other ones that can come close in scope but have either no miniatures or a poor setting are Polyversal and Strike Legion, maybe even Future War Commander. Dirtside, possibly, but that is from the same time frame.

I have to say, however, that coming back to Epic 2nd Ed/Titan Legions, I quickly fell out of love with the game as it bogs down a lot. Epic Armageddon, however, that is a whole different ball game, though it will probably not handle the same amount of units as Epic 2nd Ed/Titan Legions.

As for Gorkamorka, well, that’s basically Necromunda with vehicles 🙂

[warhammergrimace 13753xp 2]

A good alternative for Epic is Hammers Slammers, it’s primarily 15mm but you can use it for smaller scales.

[rastamannParticipant 2735xp 0]

I’ve never read those rules. How many models/stands does it typically handle per side, you know?

[warhammergrimace 13753xp 1]

http://www.hammers-slammers.com/home.htm

[tankkommanderParticipant 6390xp 0]

“Pretty much every pre- 90s historic game was far more complex and interesting than what we have now. ”

The hobby was a LOT smaller back then. The complexity of the rules was a way to gate-keep the hobby. I really enjoyed AD&D back in the day, but would not want to trade in my 5E books and go back. Nor would I want to play any of those old Napoleonics rules that had staggering complexity to try and simulate everything rather than making a game that was in some way enjoyable.

[rastamannParticipant 2735xp 1]

I don’t think it was a way to gate-keep, as rules weren’t intentionally complex – they fitted a pattern of people pursuing what they perceived to be realistic results and procedures.

And the fact that so many people still play Advanced Squad Leader or even Battletech probably means that that kind of granularity and complexity is fun for them, no? The same can be said for most monster hex and counter wargames.

[warhammergrimace 13753xp 1]

Not all rules were complex, in fact early editions of Warhammer Fantasy was quite simple it wasn’t perfect but it was no where near the complexity compared to the bloated rule set it had become at it’s demise.

D&D Basic was a simple easy rule system to play, if you wanted more complexity then you moved up to AD&D.

It was not a way to gatekeep either, there were a plethora of rules systems on market, some where more complex than others.  People say we’re in a golden Age of gaming, the 80s was as well especially for RPGs.

People like old games because it reminds them of their youth, it’s nostalgia. Some are actually really good games and worth picking up.

[bvandewalkerParticipant 2073xp 1]

That’s funny, I find AD&D to be simpler then the later editions just from reading the players handbook for it. Its certainly easier than 3rd and 4th, I remember our DM taking hours to find out battle outcome with 3rd (admittedly he was still new to that edition), we all got so tired of waiting for what dice result  meant we just throwed fireballs through doors after that. We tried doing another but our character sheets got lost and it would take a whole real world day to make characters (our setup was terrible, no printer and crappy 2000’s random generators).   When we did 4th as learning experience it was weeks of prep, and when we finally played we could only get past the first fight just barely for similar reasons (only this time we all where looking through the books do to on table mini rules coupled with pen and paper like rules in arcane combinations).

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