The Weekender: Spartan’s Planetfall, Deadzone & Love Letter!
September 21, 2013 by brennon
No we won't be waxing lyrical about a special someone! This time we're talking about all sorts and the ace game where you play suitors trying to win the hand of a princess. Don't laugh! seriously it's great!
As well as that we'll be diving into a discussion on the awesome look of the new Deadzone miniatures and the future of Spartan Games' small scale invasion game, Planetfall. The renders look very nice indeed!
The UK Warmahordes Masters Tournament is soon too!
Links:-
Spartan Games' Planetfall
http://www.spartangames.co.uk/
http://www.studiosparta.co.uk/category_s/1817.htm
Mantic Games: Deadzone
http://www.manticgames.com/
http://deadzonethegame.com/
Love Letter
http://www.alderac.com/loveletter/
UK Masters Warmahordes Tournament
http://privateerpress.com/files/Masters_2013_Rules_1.pdf
http://tabletopnation.simpletix.com/EventDetails/56/Time/53/
Happy Gaming!
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Well Ralthoza are not bugs, they are spider-like
Check out the pictures of the alien skitters from falling skies(great series)
They should solve the four legged bugs with opposable thumbs issue.
Here’s a link
http://fallingskies.wikia.com/wiki/Skitter_Rebellion
Another great show! I’ve probably spilled enough keyboard ink over KS already so I’ll just leave it at saying that retailers can’t sell product that doesn’t exist, and a comparison of CMoN’s release schedule before they started using KS to now should tell you that it’s not simply a pre-order system for them. Chess clocks only really work in games where your opponent doesn’t do anything in your turn. If they do, then introducing them into tournaments opens up too much potential for time-wasting.
The skull terrain isnt mantic stuff, its the old necromunda stuff.
The predator dude is called Blane
The picture you think is a Teraton is a plague Teraton (the plague can infect other species).
Interesting discussion on Kickstarters and Retailers. I find it odd, however, that you pick Deadzone, off all possible cases, as a good example of “not-a-pre-order” and bash a bit on Zombicide 2 and Warmachine Tactics. I love Mantic’s Games. I am both in the DreadBall and Deadzone Kickstarter, and in none of the CoolMini ones or the Warmachine one. However, that said. The “turnaround” for Warmachine Tactics between the end of Kickstarter and the (estimated) shipping date is a full year. Why would Privateer lag it so long, if it wasn’t for actual development to go into the game? For… Read more »
Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in…. The Deadzone KS doesn’t have a 4 month gap. Either that or it’s coming out in less than two weeks. The original shipping estimate was December, last I heard they were hoping to make it by the end of November, which would still be almost 6 months from the end of the campaign. And that’s only for part of the product, the rest isn’t due until Apr-Jun next year. A good way of knowing what Mantic had when they launched the DZ KS is to see what actual… Read more »
I agree with your classification of the three types of Kickstarter sales end results. I also see the appeal of a publisher using Kickstarter as a sales model. For the publisher, they will not only gain capitol upfront, they will gain more than if they sold the same product to a distributor or even direct to store sales. When a company sells a game to a distributor, they often do so at 60-65% discount of retail. Going through Kickstarter, after the KS and Amazon fees and the backer level discount, they will be closed to 70-80% minus shipping and bonuses.… Read more »
I don’t agree that KS is only harmful to retailers for a few different reasons, though that isn’t to say I don’t think people will divert some of their gaming budget to KS. They will but there are benefits to be derived for retailers too. A KS only runs for a month and even if it gets a few thousand backers, that’s still an enormous leftover consumer base to sell product to. Product that otherwise wouldn’t exist generating interest that otherwise exist, and even bringing in gamers who otherwise wouldn’t be in the market. KS has the potential to grow… Read more »
Yeah, good points, and why I think the debate of “Kickstarter as proper entrepreneur-playground” (good) vs. “Kickstarter-as-preorder” (evil) isn’t really capturing the reality of it.
As you said, most things fall into category 2, with Kickstarter providing the additional advantage of allowing companies to see “how far” a game will probably go and how big a line of add-ons and expansions is sensible to launch it with.
We get a fair degree of behind the scenes access to stuff, so I’m really just going on the fact that we didn’t see very much Deadzone stuff at all before the kickstarter. And on recent trips up, we see test sculpts etc that are only just in the door. However, every kickstarter now (pretty much) has an element of pre order (or should we call it ‘covering the initial manufacturing costs’) but its all the stuff after that, that most likely wouldn’t exist. I do feel (as I clearly pointed out in the video) that retail and manufacturers need… Read more »
Ironically, because of a packing snafu, DreadBall did hit retail about the same time as the pledgers got it, possibly a little earlier. I and a friend had each backed the KS, a third friend bought it immediately on retail because he knew we were getting it and was interested in playing. He wound up getting it before us. Both of those friends only started mini-gaming because they got interested in an earlier KS and a couple of my friends have become regular WM/H players whilst they waited for their product. All perfect examples of how KS benefits retailers.
That should have said a second friend. Third person in that scenario, but second friend. I’m sure you didn’t need that cleared up :p
I don’t wish to spam up the comments section (and peoples’ email inboxes) any more than I have on this so I’ll keep my final comment succinct. You’re welcome to the last word if you like, this is just my last contribution. “Pre-order”, when used in the context of a KS campaign, for example, “the Zombicide KS is just a pre-order for the game”, means the game exists and does not need any KS funding to reach the market in its final form. Each pledge is simply selling them a pre-ordered copy of the game. It’s considered to be wrong… Read more »
Which they do. Ironically, it was Mantic’s DreadBall Kickstarter (before Deadzone) that was the only miniature wargaming Kickstarter so far (that I am aware of) that had a few early Stretchgoals spoiled because (!) a product-/pre-order list for wholesalers was leaked (that had gone out before the KS even started), with product ID numbers and all, that contained a helping of miniatures which were – at the time of the “leak” – not even introduced (much less “unlocked”) as Stretch Goals. Now Mantic is doing a Kickstarter for a licensed IP!! Of course, Mars Attacks is likely gonna be funded… Read more »
You are aware that Mantic is not obliged to produce any product that it lists for pre-order? Jake is working on things for Mars Attacks that he has no idea if they’ll ever see the light of day but he has to have them prepared in case the KS is successful enough to reach them. DB was Mantic’s second KS and was a product they knew was more suitable to be a success on the platform than KoW so they were confident they would exceed that campaign’s total at the very least and they were prepared for it. That isn’t… Read more »
I could probably have articulated that first sentence better. What I meant by it was that Mantic listing those products for pre-order doesn’t mean they’re manufactured and ready to go. You can list a product for pre-order that doesn’t exist. Rob Liefeld became notorious for announcing comic books that hadn’t yet been created as pre-orders, and then only going ahead with them if enough copies were pre-ordered. What Mantic did was anticipate, correctly, that their KS would fund those products.
Sure they were confident that it will go down well, just as I am sure they are confident in Mars Attacks, at least for the first part of the way. But the timing is, what appears to be the lynchpin, between “good” (not-preorder) and “bad” (pre-order) Kickstarters, and the timing of Mantic’s Kickstarters is generally closer to the “pre-order” end of the spectrum than the “let’s brainstorm-for-ideas-and-produce-a-first-test-miniature” end of the spectrum (e.g. Gates of Antares?). They could’ve gone to Kickstarter with DreadBall 6 months before they did, even more possibly, with a more vague and unfinished concept. It is smart… Read more »
I am not sure this is relevant. As I said a few times, I don’t want to “judge” “pre-order-Kickstarters” as good or bad. And perhaps companies can default on pre-orders.. fine. The point was, that the Weekender said that Mantic doesn’t do “pre-order-Kickstarters”. Yet we know from DreadBall at least, that wholesalers and stockists could, very literally, pre-order the product at the same time as “normal” people were having a look at it during an active Kickstarter campaign. If allowing pre-orders during / before the actual product you are Kickstarting (with whatever caveats may or may not apply to a… Read more »
The only thing that would qualify as a pre-order would be when a company has a completed product that they can release exactly how they want and have all the funds in place to do so but take it to KS and release it there first. Everything else, whether it’s starting a project from scratch or raising funds to send a completed project into production, is not a pre-order system. Because a company offers expected KS funded product for pre-order prior to the completion of the campaign does not mean it is being used as a pre-order system. That’s a… Read more »
Wait?
So you are saying that having actual real-life pre-orders doesn’t qualify you to be labelled with “pre-order” because those pre-orders aren’t really pre-orders?
So you basically have two “types” of pre-order now?
I would object to pre-order being used at all to describe a KS. It’s a deeply misleading phrase that obscures the nuances and prevents effective discussion. But it is being used and is being used here so I’m needing to use it. When people say KS is being used as a pre-order system, what they mean is that it is not being used to allow a product to come to market, only to sell a product that would be heading to market anyway. You’re equating that with offering a product for pre-order during a campaign that only exists because the… Read more »
No. The words is the same because the meaning is the same. It’s a product that has advanced in its development to the point where it can be “pre-ordered” (that is, it is sufficiently defined what will be in the box, how many miniatures are in it, how many books, how much it will cost, will it be a GBP 20,- box or a GBP 40,- box or a GBP 100-, etc.. ). Therefore, the development of the product has progressed to a point where the Kickstarter paralleling the pre-orders isn’t just launching an entrepreneurial idea, but a product that… Read more »
I gotta go buy Love Letter, looks really cool.
Nice show chaps. Kickstarter – the exclusives should be mostly alternate sculpts of other minis and bargain deals like getting squads BOGOF type deal. I agree with getting the product out to retail at or as near the same time as each wave of the KS stuff ships. Deadzone – I backed it (same with Dreadball) so I have LOADS of it coming. I adore the terrain concept. The small monkey guys in DZ and DB are the Zees. The blue guy loading the missile launcher is a Sphyr. As one of the others said, the gothic stuff is old… Read more »
I do like that kickstarter et al give companies the funds to get product out there, but I’m someone who would rather buy it in a shop to be honest. Deadzone is one I’ll be buying, my new local shop is a mantic stockist so I’ll be getting it from there, and it looks like it will be at retail very near the same time as the kickstarters get it, which I think for the games longevity is essential. 2000 people or however many end up backing most of these games worldwide is not enough to sustain any sort of… Read more »
Successful games need to consider using KS and retail in tandem. The former will give you a product you wouldn’t otherwise have, a big splash of publicity for it, and an instant consumer base. The latter will then build on that. It’s not an either/or proposition and KS is as much an opportunity for retailers as it is for games companies.
I think it was this time last year when I backed DreadBall on KS and Ive just sent away my last order for Season 3. Pretty much picked up everything. I loved the fact that it was packaged as 3 Seasons from the get go, in fact Season Xtreme was mentioned and Blaine was added to Pledges at the end as a crossover mini for DeadZone. All this suggests at least a couple of years worth of forward planning by Mantic in relation to their Kick Starters. Thanks Ronnie !
Here are my general thoughts on kickstarted games. For years, I was the buyer for a couple of large games stores in the States (but now I have a job that has a decent salary). I backed the Reaper Bones project last year. As the project progressed, the cheaper each mini became at the Vampire level. As a consumer, it was awesome. From the perspective of a (former) game store buyer, I was… concerned, both for Reaper and for stores. If thousands of people get 300 – 400 miniatures from Kickstarter, would they then keep buying minis from their friendly… Read more »
This was a great weekender. Firmly anchored in gaming with short tangents. Very engaging.
Superb weekender it just keeps getting better and better 🙂 I miss stu’s dry Witt :). On subject of kickstarters are they just a result of the global economy ! Banks don’t lend money any more and kickstarter is probably the only way a game manufacturer can get the funding ? Having had my own shop I’ve seen first hand how recessions and the evil Internet have crucified the high street, in the old days a company would have to develop the product and raise funding from banks to bring to production and then would be punted out by reps… Read more »
The flying saucer is GONE!!!! Warren! Did you take it to the tourney??? 😀
There are special pledge for retailers where they can get tons of boxes and extra stuff at a discount price like anyone else. The only thing that should be added at it is to be check that is an actual retailer, so the solution was already implemented in many kickstarters and we all receive the stuff at the same time.
Yeah. But I don’t think that works for most retailers (except for possibly the biggest of them): Most retailers order/buy stocks on account, having at least a partially positive cash cycle. “Buying” product for retail through KS-pledges means a negative cash-cycle with months and months of lead-time. And unlike the “private person” that just throws their pledge at the few products they like, retailers would have to pledge on “all of them” (or at least most of them) and on the far higher pledge-levels, quickly resulting in massive amounts of funds parked on KS. Very few stores/retailers in this industry… Read more »
I think negative and positive cash cycle go the other way around actually ,) (negative being desirable).
Great show and as for the Kickstarter vs Retailer debate this is just the way the industry is going. It reminds me of when online MP3 stores caused the downfall of the local cd shop. Now does anybody really miss buying a cd in a store? I’d much rather feel the comradery of a kickstarter as more stretch goals are unlocked and interesting discussions happen in the comments than go to a physical store in hopes they have what I want at a reasonable cost. Places like TabletopNation are the future! Your’re going for the experience not just to buy… Read more »
I would of ignored love letters, but it seems a fun game.
Man that was a lot of waffle to read through…
Nice one fellas 🙂
I wish someone gave me a love letter 😛
That was refreshing to watch, especially with the introduction of Love Letter. I really hope you guys are going to do some Deadzone related content when it gets to November of December. A Deadzone theme week would be great, or at least some battle reports.
Really looking forward to the Planetfall stuff. I have both the kick start boxes for the Terran’s and the Dindrenzi (not kickstarter but boxes to kick start your collection). Just started to paint them, the existing models are very nice, pretty big the Terran tank is as big as a FoW Stugg!
The military already use containers to transport and then convert them to accomodation blocks in Afganistan and Iraq. another nice weekender
Nice episode guys. I think Spartan would be missing a HUGE opportunity if they didn’t make those vehicles 28mm, as they are many times better than other scifi vehicles imho and they have the hex’s to prove it! 😀 Sadly my girlfriend owns love letter and I have to say that I hate it with a passion. Others at my gamings club love it though and is played as a warm up game or a quick game before everyone goes home. I will also add that most people at my club love the game, but having now seen @Warzan empty… Read more »
Great call Warren on the appeal of Love Letter! We stumbled upon the game a month ago and instantly fell in love. There is nothing better than breaking up long spurts of gameplay with a quick card or dice game. Also, many thanks for the Formula One Rush synopsis. As an American my knowledge of it is practically nil. However, I am now intrigued enough to check out the movie when it opens.
Bugs with six limbs are called Insects (bees wasps, beetles,flies, mosquitoes etc.) BTW – Arachnids like spiders and Scorpions have eight limbs. The bigger question than have they build the tech is how they get oxygen to there blood. Have you ever wondered why Insects are so much smaller than Mammals and reptiles? Its because rather than a blood circulation that they instead have small cylindrical vents in the joints which oxygenate there blood. Non Aquatic Creatures with an exoskeleton cannot get any bigger than they currently are as they would not be able to get oxygen around there body.… Read more »
Well, these Aliens could well originate from a low-gravity, high-oxygen aquatic environment. Or possibly a space-faring civilization physically evolved to zero-G environments (Space-Locust.. hurray).
Would make exo-suits not only a means of protection and military action, but a necessity to survival in an earth-like environment.