The Old World

[pagan8thParticipant 9576xp 2]

Apparently my post triggered an insult… so I deleted it.

[grantinvanmanParticipant 2017xp 0]

delete

[grantinvanmanParticipant 2017xp 0]

The link:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/12/26/warhammer-the-old-world-the-tomb-kings-of-khemri-revealed/

[pagan8thParticipant 9576xp 1]

It’s GW, so it will be expensive and my keyboard playing up… the ‘l’ doesn’t work all the time.

And thanks for the insult in the tag… I’d respond but that would make me as bad as you.

[jamescutts 6847xp 0]

It was on my “keep an eye on it” list, its now not.

I don’t really want to pay current prices for 20+ year old miniatures, and on top of that my concerns were confirmed, while the starterboxes will provide “value” vs buying separately, 5, yes 5 rulebooks on launch confirm to me that this is just going to be yet another rules creeping, new rulebook every year and whatever comes out latest is the best show.

If I do buy anything it will most likely be either to add to old armies for 6th edition, or just use for kings of war.

That said, WHIPPY STICKS!!!!!!!

[grantinvanmanParticipant 2017xp 0]

“Expensive” is all relative.

For those of us that felt GW killed Fantasy with Age of Sigmar – and I think GW knows they screwed up – The Old World will be welcome return to nostalgia gaming. Not a fan of the Tomb Kings or the Bretonnians, but Orcs & Goblins? You betcha.

[wolfie65Participant 1229xp 0]

Having looked at the first wave, it looks like I’ll probably just get the rulebook – assuming it’s semi-affordable (j/k, it’s GW, so it won’t be…) – and maybe an army book or three.

I have plenty of Medievals/Bretonnians, no interest whatsoever in Egyptian-themed skeletons, and don’t need any additional dice, measuring sticks or sundry.

The larger bases are very obviously mean that the NEW miniatures will be bigger – the dreaded Scale Creep strikes again..and again…and again….- and many people will (GW hope) be ’embarrassed’ to be playing with the tiny little 8th, 7th, 6th or (gasp!) even older models (which are already WAY HUGE compared to the good ole 25s of 70s/80s days of yore). The thing about that is that your average game size will still be 2000 points, meaning you’ll probably need an average of 100 or so minis, depending on army, per side, making things on a ‘standard’ 6×4 gaming table rather crowded ,what with terrain, maneuvering, et.al.

There’s a YT video of someone questioning the wisdom of putting Goblins on 25 mm bases – the little guys might get agoraphobia with all that empty space around them – but then again, Gobbos will probably also experience a growth spurt. Maybe the new Gobbos will be physically bigger than ‘Primaris’ Marines……Time to re-write the stat lines.

I will definitely not be re-basing anything, I’ll just make me some appropriate size movement trays, that’s kind of what I did with my Dwarves (mostly Mithril, Grenadier and Vendel) when I played GW’s LotR battle game – blue-tac’ed them onto round bases.

[onlyonepinman 18057xp 1]

@wolfie65 that’s all pure speculation, most of it uninformed.  We already know the miniatures won’t be bigger because they are re-releasing the old Warhammer Fantasy Battle sets alongside a few new models for each faction which we already know are to scale with the existing models because we have seen previews.  So highly unlikely to be any major scale creep.  The larger base sizes are for practical purposes only – it gives units standard sized footprints and also makes ranking up miniatures slightly easier.  That’s all, nothing more sinister going on there.  I probably won’t rebase mine either, if I choose to play I will buy some movement trays that do the job of converting those 20mm to 25mm squares for me.  Again, not a big deal.  GW have made a design decision, they have been on record about the reasons for it and those reasons are highly plausible.

Given that we have seen lots of previews of Bretonians and Tomb Kings and new models for both, I would say wave 1 will include the Bretonnian and Tomb Kings armies as a minimum.  So it won’t just be a rule book and a few army books – new models ARE on the way.  I would even venture that there will be a launch box with Bretonnian and Tomb Kings armies.

We also don’t, at this point, know what a typical game size is in terms of points nor do we know how much things will cost in terms of points.  This is pure conjecture.  And even if you did need 100 miniatures, from a Bretonnian perspective, that’s what, 4-5 units of infantry?  That’s hardly prohibitive.  If you swap some of those out for cavalry, that 100 figure count also starts to drop considerably as you typically get far less cavalry for the same points as a block of infantry.  So I would say wait and see before complaining about the number of miniatures required vs cost.  We have no information about either.

[labambamanParticipant 4xp 0]

I suspect a $70-80 main rulebook, and the army books will probably be another $40-50. I also suspect $300 for the army boxes, if HH is anything to go by.

But the thing that gets me is that for the number of models you get in these boxes the 1250 points seems low. Is this going to be like Legions Imperialis where everything is wildly undercosted to make getting to the standard need way more of an investment? If we guess a 2000 point standard, which I think was what it was back in the day, that could mean a substantial further investment.

But also, I just don’t see the appeal here. It’s old WHFB, warts and all. It has all the faults WHFB had before, plus apparently having like twenty different types of spells that can only be cast during the various phases and sub-phases. I just think for fantasy mass battle rank n’ flank we have so many better options these days.

[dagsParticipant 3488xp 2]

I am not interested despite wfb being my main game for years.  I personally feel they have missed an opportunity to create a modern rank and flank game, and I am not sure who the target audience it has been designed for, as it doesn’t feel it was aimed at total war fans.  If I want to play old rules I am fortunate that I can, with with my old rules.  I am not sure that any choice they made won’t be criticised though given the history so …

It also seems it is going the mass book route of many other specialist games.  Which I personally find off putting.

That said hopefully it generates a whole load of cool hobby projects I can enjoy watching and maybe a few cool miniatures to add to my fantasy projects

[onlyonepinman 18057xp 0]

@labambaman I think 1500 ended up becoming the base standard for 40k, it’s not beyond the realms of possibility that’s the case with the old world.  At the end of the day  “points” are an arbitrary number and until we know what things have what points values and how many points are required to have a decent game, I prefer not to speculate on it

I doubt that I will be getting into this in a big way.  However, there’s enough new Bretonnian models coming out that I might get a couple of boxes just to round out my old Bretonnian army – for old times sake more than any desire to play them at any point.  I always felt that the Bretonnian army was massively lacking in a decent infantry unit and those new foot knights look pretty good.  And I will be getting the new Fae Enchantress on Unicorn for no reason other than it’s a stunning model (and I have a six year old daughter who adores Unicorns).

[jamescutts 6847xp 0]

Just for a complete laugh I did some conspiracy theory level number mashing, using what I have dubbed the Macragge Formula.

The “re-released” (lets be honest, is a reprint of the crashed ship bundled with some old sprues that needed clearing) Macragge set was priced at £90, in 2006 it was £40, accounting for inflation that should have been £64 (and thats not includeding the lack of rulebook), so a £50 increase overall with a roughly 50/50 split between inflation increases and extra revenue for the shareholders profits.

Now  if we go on the older regiment prices for Warhammer in 2006 it was about £20 a box, lets say the new starter boxes have 6 sets worth (thats not including characters or books) then it would roughly be about £120 in 2006 terms.

How if we account for inflation that £120 works out about £185 (A very possible price given THE HORUS HERESY – AGE OF DARKNESS is that and also from the SGS)  now if we account for that extra revenue based on a 50/50 increase split we get to £250.

So there you have it, my in no way anything other than wanging some numbers about price estimates:

New Starter Sets £250 (but should probably be about £185)

Regiment sets £40-45 (but should probably be about £30-35)

[labambamanParticipant 4xp 1]

@dags

The target audience is whales with rose tinted glasses. The more I look at this it just seems like a shameless nostalgia cash grab.

But people will buy it, without hesitation, and the world will continue to turn.

[wolfie65Participant 1229xp 2]

@onlyonepinman – I have been involved in miniature wargaming, on and off,  since I was a kid in the early 1970s, have seen many game systems, editions, companies and miniature lines come and go and seen scale creep happen often: from company to company, year to year, one edition of game system so-and-so to the next, sometimes even within the same edition – which is precisely wwhat I suspect will happen with WHtOW.

If the game tanks, they’ll keep it afloat for a few years, re-release 8th edition minis to keep the old farts who did buy into it from leaving unwelcome messages on GW boards and then quietly drop it back down the memory hole whence it came, joining all the other ‘specialist’ games.

But if it SELLS WELL, minis will get bigger, if only to fill the empty space on the much larger bases. Btw, ranking figures up wasn’t a problem when rank-and-file troopers actually looked like rank-and-file troopers, not a random assortment of folks engaged in a bar brawl.

Let’s say the next army gettin’ some GW love after the BritFrenchies and WalklikeadeadEgyptians are the fake Germans, aka ‘Empire’, which would make some sense. Those shiny, brand-spankin’ new Halberdiers will not be 25mm (measuring from sole to crown of head, like you’re s’posed to) or ‘heroic’ 25 (aka 28) or 28-to-eye-level (aka 32), they’ll  be 35. To eye level.

I don’t know of any physician, militray or otherwise, who measures someone’s height to eye level, but that’s a whole other story.

Anyway, they’ll be bigger. Maybe it’s because Sauerbraten makes ’em grow taller than frog legs.

Well… can’t have Empire soldiers tower over CHAOS WARRIORS (GW’s mostestest belovedest of all) now, can we ? Therefore, CHAOS WARRIORS might be ‘heroic’ 35s (meaning 38)…and so on.

Since it is highly unlikely that they’ll make any minis I actually want  to buy – haven’t bought more than a handful of NEW Citadel minis since about 2000 or so – maybe I’ll just start using my Holger Eriksson rubber molds to cast me an army of 40 mm (traditional toy soldier scale) Karoliner to use as ‘Empire’…….

Take that, CHAOS WARRIORS……

[wolfie65Participant 1229xp 0]

@labambaman – Whales ? I’m guessing you meant dinosaurs…..

If the basic book costs $ 70 – which may well be, this is, after all, GW we’re talking about – and the army book compilations $ 50 apiece, I’m going to say screw this and continue playing editions no. 3,4.5 and 6. I’m not paying more than maybe $ 50 absolute max for a rulebook I already have 5 versions of…..

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