Show us zee papers.. Passports of your not coming in ever….

[danlee 22395xp 6]

@osbad I’d argue driving is a good example of why control measures are required. I explained it in detail in an earlier post. But to summarise, you can only drive after being tested and putting in place insurance. You can only drive a vehicle that meets safety standards. You must follow the Highway Code. Fail to do any of theses and your driving privileges are revoked by the government. All because driving is relatively dangerous and doing so poses a risk to you, your passengers, other drivers and pedestrians.

 

In some ways the covid restrictions seem like a light touch in comparison.

 

I also feel I should point out referring to “cowering in fear” of COVID-19 is itself derogatory. I have been using a mask and eliminated social events since before the government mandated it and continue to do so. At no point have I been cowering in fear. At all stages I used the information available, considered the uncertainty in that information, and took the actions I decided best to both protect my family and to do my civic duty to protect the rest of society.

 

The term “cowering in fear” is designed to undermine COVID-19 measures by making people feel they are being brave in not following them. I would say ignoring the rules is neither brave or cowardly, but it is definitely the easier option.

[collins 16344xp 3]

would a simple way to solve this over reaching or impinging in civil liberties simply be:

‘play by the rules, keep your bed in the hospital, elect to take the riskier option, lose access to hospital, ITU for covid related illnesses.’

After all, the risks are so small that you’d probably be ok… even with being in a more susceptible age group, weight category and have asthma.

no? didn’t think so, because its not your problem until it really is your problem and even then, your problem automatically becomes the medics problem…but hey, screw them… they’re only working to keep the most publicly abused system ever invented running…. all so someone can go clubbing.

basically, although we’re all fed up of it, all want to have fun and get back to normal, I don’t agree with you. remember that this pandemic has come on top of years of cuts to public services to pay off the banking cockups… it really is a miracle anything works but the public fail to see it, just continue to offload their responsibility time and again.

[elessar2590 18201xp 1]

The rules are getting ridiculous and at some point it has to end. In parts of Australia you can’t go visit your mother but you can go to a brothel, because one has a sign in code and the other doesn’t. How is that a sensible or ‘Science’ based rule? I’m all for common stuff like wearing a mask but so many laws are ridiculous. You’ll drop dead of Covid instantly if you wander mask less around a library completely alone but it’s totally fine to take it off in a packed food court to shove greasy fast food into your mouth.

@collins good idea on the whole take risks suffer the consequences but let’s go further. How about if you take a vaccine and it kills you (like it did a young woman this week in Australia) your family gets to sue every single company, store and government entity that told you to take that vaccine to use the service? Instead what do we see? Vaccine companies make billions while being shielded from lawsuits.

If someone gets the vaccine to go to an event and it does harm to them why can’t they sue that event organiser?

[limburger 21550xp 2]

The problem is and always will be that the politicians are setting the rules are also listening to idiot lobbyists.

As a result we got stupidity like churches being exempt from the mass gathering restrictions … because ‘freedom of religion’ outranks health and safety. We got politicians argueing about the time a curfew starts, because the virus can tell time … and a half hour earlier or later ‘helps’.

We got silly things like a family of 4 not being allowed to visit a family of 1, but a family of 1 could visit a family of 4.
Because politicians can’t construct sane restrictions.

Also keep in mind : we have had vaccination requirements for areas that suffer from malaria …
People never questioned when they had to get their shots just to visit a far away country that required them.
So why the heck would we consider it strange to get similar restrictions for Covid ?

@elessar2590 ask a lawyer … and always consult a doctor/medic if you think a vaccine could be dangerous to your own health. Heck, the vaccination invite already asks pregnant women to consult their doctor before taking a risk.

IF you’ve never questioned the need to get a vaccination when going on holiday to a foreign country … maybe it is time to start questioning ?
Or would you sue someone because you did suffer from the vaccination during holiday ?
Once we know how we solve that we can turn our attention to the Covid-thingy, because it isn’t *that* different except it hits a little closer to home.

btw : tour operators are starting to demand people have their shots … because as a company they need to minimize risk to their profit margins.  As such I wouldn’t be surprised of events would do similar things even if there are no legal requirements to do so, because the hassle when an infection is traced to the event just isn’t worth it.

[warhammergrimace 13753xp 4]

Don’t be surprised if medical insurance requires you to have the vaccines when visiting countries in the future or they won’t cover you.

[khusrauParticipant 1158xp 1]

I’d expect carriers to want to see certificates before you were allowed on a plane/ship.

Either vaccination or exemption.

[osbad 4277xp 2]

Wow, I get criticised for saying “cowering in fear” to describe a societal response, but somehow using the term “stupidity”to describe my views is acceptable protocol?

Guys, this ain’t worth the candle.  I’m not going to fall out with folks over this. It just demonstrates my point perfectly and I’ll not stoke the fire any further.

Peace out.

[khusrauParticipant 1158xp 2]

When you describe people wearing masks as ‘cowering in fear’ what sort of response did you expect?

People who behave like you say you are/will, put others lives at risk. So ‘stupid’ is generous, it ascribes that behaviour to ignorance rather than selfishness, narcissism or malice.

I don’t know you, so your death from Covid, contracted from a clubbing son, would be just another statistic, but I’ve lost my Best Man and others to Covid. I’ve isolated to protect the ones I love, and people needlessly putting others at risk seems like the worst sort of stupidity.

[pagan8thParticipant 9574xp 0]

I work for royal mail and there never was social distancing at work, but we had no cases of one postman passing covid to another.

Some people won’t open the door to receive parcels. Others stand back. There is fear and I can understand people being wary, but I think the government encouraged fear.

I’m surprised there were so few fatalities. I expected upwards of 5 million in UK when the outbreak began.

[warhammergrimace 13753xp 3]

We have a teen who has asthma and would suffer quite badly if she caught Covid, so we do our best not to bring the virus in the house. Which means we’ll still continue to wear masks indoors or in crowded places. It’s not cowering in fear it’s trying to be as safe as possible and doing our best to reduce the risks.

In the last 12 months, one of my aunts has died from the virus, an uncle caught it twice, first time ended up in hospital on oxygen and now has long covid. I also have two younger friends in their mid 3o’s suffering from Long Covid which is quite debilitating and both were considered reasonably fit before getting the illness. My sister suffered really badly from illness and now has fatigue issues, she’s waiting for an appointment to see if it’s long covid.

So if I say someone who ignores the advice about this illness is stupid, it’s because of the above and I’m being polite when I say stupid. I’m not being rude but if you choose to ignore all the experts about this illness and believe some fuckwit on YouTube then, yes you are quite stupid.

So far people I know who are anti-pandemic or anti-vaccine, when I’ve asked where they got their info from so far I’ve been sent links to videos by a Chiropodist, a gynecologist, a new age nutritionist, a former doctor who was discredited and chemical engineer. None of them were specialists in virology or epidemiology.

[danlee 22395xp 0]

@pagan8th I’m curious where you got the 5 million expected death figure from. An early prediction by Imperial College London (https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/mrc-gida/2020-03-16-COVID19-Report-9.pdf) talked about 500,000 deaths in the UK over two years, but that was a worst case scenario where nothing was done to prevent the spread of the virus at all.

[pagan8thParticipant 9574xp 1]

@danlee Initially they were talking about a 1 in 20 death rate of those infected and I assumed that given how contagious it appeared to be that at some point everyone would catch it.

So 70 million-ish divided by 20 is 3.5 million

Then I factor in the unreliability of government statistics, allowed an estimate of 3.5 to 7 million deaths in the Uk population and averaged it out at around 5 million.

In other words I guessed based on the early reports in the media, but they love to scare monger.

[pagan8thParticipant 9574xp 0]

As a footnote I would ask that @warzan would delete this thread.

It’s deteriorated into insults and name calling and has nothing to do with gaming at this point.

It’s just creating bad blood between people who would likely get on a lot better if covid had never been unleashed on the world.

Forums and other forms of ‘anti-social media’ allow people to be far more critical and insulting than they would dare do to someones face.

So please consider shutting this thread down and deleting it.

[danlee 22395xp 0]

@pagan8th it is a shame that media reports are only ever interested (with perhaps a few fringe exceptions) in sensationalist coverage to get greater audience numbers. I learned fairly early on in the pandemic to ignore the media reports themselves and to search for their sources directly. We should be able to count on journalists to spend the time researching the facts and giving us reliable summaries, but too often they are happy to oversimplify or even just copy the reports of others without checking for accuracy.

[warhammergrimace 13753xp 1]

Journalism in the UK has been poor for awhile, it got worse after the Brexit vote. When I was editor on a farming magazine I was told by the owner to only include positive leave articles, and leave out any facts that might put a negative spin on leave. I was even told to over embellish leave facts.  I told him to sling his hook and if he didn’t like me putting balanced articles in the mag then find someone else.

That was a similar story across the industry where either owners or management were forcing journalists to slant stories one way. The press has veered towards a more right of politics view in the last few years.

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